Autofly

To all those who have recently done a business plan to gain money for CPL/IR training.....

I'm putting together a plan with the view of going modular and starting the ATPL exams in the Autumn. I plan to do the CPL towards the end of 2003 and then assessing whether to do the IR or FI depending on the job market. We all know that the market upturn will come its just nobody knows when but I think my strategy will give me the flexibility to peak at the right time. The only problem is convincing the bank!

I have covered all aspects of the course in my business plan with the exception of attempting to indicate the likelihood of getting a job at the end of it being either as an instructor or otherwise. How did everyone else do it? Does anyone have a useful source? What can I expect to be paid as an instructor. I've contacted BALPA to see if they can help but I am out of ideas. Luckily I have good contacts in the business i'm in at present who have been good enough to write me references saying i should be able to get a job if it all gets ugly.

If anyone has any useful suggestions then could you mail me.

Cheers. .Autofly

heli lonestar

Autofly,

I had a problem securing finance as I had no asset security. I also had no guarantor. I did though, have a letter from an employer to say I had a job on completion of training. I had a good credit rating and a great business plan but the bank still knocked back my application - twice.

I got there in the end, the long way around.

So good luck with it.

Autofly

CM,

Like you I have no security or parents who are prepared to go guarantor so this issue if pretty serious. Cheers for posting.

Anyone else????

twistedenginestarter

Auto

My understanding is business plans are for venture capitalists (if you are small) and the capital markets (if you are Vodafone). Banks are interested in collateral - either a house or a guarantor. They don't take risks (or 40% of the net income) and thus are not bothered about the viability of your business plan. They'll maybe show some interest in it, as they will in what car you drive and what you think Veron's best role should be.

I'd be very interested to hear from others if that is not entirely correct.

Autofly

TES, you're right in what you are saying. Maybe my term "business plan" is somewhat incorrect.

The thing is that HSBC and others offer a loan to people wanting to do the commercial licence and I believe they really have no idea of the money involved. It is very difficult to say whether you'll be able to get a job at the end and whether the job would pay sufficiently in order to be able to make the repayments. Any information you give will be extrapolated to a certain degree.

I've been to ask HSBC in the past for a loan they offer and have been refused point blank and for a very sound financial decision on their behalf. This time round i've come up with a much more plausible and flexible plan however i'm likely to be refused for a second time. I'm sure that if I was successful with the bank i'd be successful in the air but it requires someone in he bank to but their balls on the line and give me the money. I think until they can seriously offer the loan they should not advertise it.

Any thoughts?? Anyone else got any ideas on the 'proving a job' thing???

Cheers. .Auto

heli lonestar

Autofly,

I thought I'd just share with you what my 'long way around' was, may give you an alternate idea:

The bank refused my application for finance for training but approved my (third attempt) for finance on a property. I bought, developed, then sold the property for a reasonable sum and had ample funds for my training costs, repay the loan and to pay the tax (grrr!). I guess it was a bit of good luck on my side that the property increased in value quite quickly, although I did do a lot of thinking and alot of research to find the right investment. This was all achieved in about 9 months.

Time is the essence unfortunately and you sound like you are on a mission with a goal to achieve. But believe me, if you want something bad enough you will find a means to an end.

Again, good luck mate.

helimuster

Autofly

Circus Mouse has given the best answer if you do not have a guarantor. Banks will never loan on a possible job outcome. The nature of their business is a definite return on investment with a security if you default.. .Another way is to work 3 jobs as I did initially and save; the other good fortune I had was to have a very good salaried management job later on. It took me 10 years to achieve my dreams.. .Morale of the story is unless you have a guarantor, work damn hard until you have saved sufficient funds. try the Armed Forces if you can.. .Good luck

Autofly

CM,

I must admit, buying a house and becoming a landlord for a couple of years is plan B. It is a more plausable solution to my problem or alternatively hold a gun to my dads head and ask him nicely to go guarantor <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> .

Cheers for all the advice and i'll let you know if I get lucky <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

Auto

twistedenginestarter

[quote] We all know that the market upturn will come <hr></blockquote>

Auto

Your business plan (ie your life plan) will need a worst case outcome. In your case this seems to be zero commercial flying work, with you falling back to your current occupation. I would just counsel caution that this is more likely to happen than you maybe think.

The demand for pilots will rise due to a lift in economic activity and the continued senior pilot retirement profile. However there are adverse factors. . .<ul type="square">[*]there is a considerable overhang of displaced or frustrated pilots currently looking for work[*]the UK market is open to vicious competition because half the world speaks English.[*]a return to recent operator/aircraft/pilot numbers may well take years to achieve. Airlines are still going bankrupt.[*]operators may well start to favour people with experience/ratings lifting the cost of entry far higher than you have budgeted.[/list]
Making forecasts is extremely difficult, especially about the future.

Autofly

TES,

Right again however what I want to achieve is to get myself to a point where I can make a decision whether to go the instuctor route or to complete the IR.

On completion of the CPL(A) if the upturn in the market is underway and experienced/rated pilots are being employed again then i'll do the instructor rating as i'll have to wait for these people to get jobs before being employed myslef. If by the time i've done my CPL and the DEP scheme's are up and running for fATPL pilots then i'll do the IR. I'll only do the IR if i've got a realistic chance of getting a job. I want to get myself to the point where I can choose when to finish my licence and do it quickly.

I think this theory pretty much reflects the ideas posted by alot of people on this forum over the last 6 months.

Thoughts??

[ 21 February 2002: Message edited by: Autofly ]</p>