Is age against me?
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Is age against me?
There are two questions that I need help with...
I am just turning 37 and looking for a career change, I have always wanted to be a pilot but never really had the funds until now. Is my age massively going to affect my employment options by the time I qualify I will be 39?
I am looking at the modular or integrated route ATPL. Obviously, I would want the lowest risk and quickest option with the greatest chance of employment at the end. Does the modular route really decrease your chances of employment with the main airlines or am I flogging a dead horse?
Thank you for reading and taking the time to answer in advance.
Adam
I am just turning 37 and looking for a career change, I have always wanted to be a pilot but never really had the funds until now. Is my age massively going to affect my employment options by the time I qualify I will be 39?
I am looking at the modular or integrated route ATPL. Obviously, I would want the lowest risk and quickest option with the greatest chance of employment at the end. Does the modular route really decrease your chances of employment with the main airlines or am I flogging a dead horse?
Thank you for reading and taking the time to answer in advance.
Adam
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There are two questions that I need help with...
I am just turning 37 and looking for a career change, I have always wanted to be a pilot but never really had the funds until now. Is my age massively going to affect my employment options by the time I qualify I will be 39?
I am looking at the modular or integrated route ATPL. Obviously, I would want the lowest risk and quickest option with the greatest chance of employment at the end. Does the modular route really decrease your chances of employment with the main airlines or am I flogging a dead horse?
Thank you for reading and taking the time to answer in advance.
Adam
I am just turning 37 and looking for a career change, I have always wanted to be a pilot but never really had the funds until now. Is my age massively going to affect my employment options by the time I qualify I will be 39?
I am looking at the modular or integrated route ATPL. Obviously, I would want the lowest risk and quickest option with the greatest chance of employment at the end. Does the modular route really decrease your chances of employment with the main airlines or am I flogging a dead horse?
Thank you for reading and taking the time to answer in advance.
Adam
I started in my 30's on the 737 so nothing is impossible (albeit this was a SE Asian airline) - I quit flying for various reasons but age was an issue but not insurmountable. Naturally, with P2F it is far less an issue (if at all), however, given the alleged shortage of pilots age "standards" will likely slide.
Isn't age discrimination illegal in the UK? If so, I'd imagine that airlines would "quota" to make sure they are within the law, Euro airlines more so (outside of Eastern and Central, can't speak about them).
The bottom line in my opinion though is you'll still be under 40 and given many service pilots also enter at the 38 point it won't be exactly you are the oldest.
Go for it anyway or eternally regret "if only..."
Isn't age discrimination illegal in the UK? If so, I'd imagine that airlines would "quota" to make sure they are within the law, Euro airlines more so (outside of Eastern and Central, can't speak about them).
The bottom line in my opinion though is you'll still be under 40 and given many service pilots also enter at the 38 point it won't be exactly you are the oldest.
Go for it anyway or eternally regret "if only..."
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I only have anecdotes to support my post, however a colleague of mine recently joined a major European short haul at the age of 37. This was from an unrelated industry, modular route. Also have an ex colleague in the Integrated system who is in his mid 40s.
Im training now (PPL with a view to going commercial via modular) and everybody I speak to, be it instructors with years experience, current airline pilots, as well as club members are all very positive about the prospects. I’m 33 so likely to be 35/36 when I finish. If I have missed the boat in terms of the industry taking a downturn then I’ll keep my current job and become an instructor part time until it picks up again.
Be aware that the pilot training industry is just that. I’d recommend going to one of the Pilot Careers Live events with open eyes. Plenty of schools will happily take your money. Wings alliance is worth a look as well.
I ‘get’ that the industry has to bottom feed to provide people for the senior positions of the future, but from the research I have done, being under 40 won’t stop you on its own.
Im training now (PPL with a view to going commercial via modular) and everybody I speak to, be it instructors with years experience, current airline pilots, as well as club members are all very positive about the prospects. I’m 33 so likely to be 35/36 when I finish. If I have missed the boat in terms of the industry taking a downturn then I’ll keep my current job and become an instructor part time until it picks up again.
Be aware that the pilot training industry is just that. I’d recommend going to one of the Pilot Careers Live events with open eyes. Plenty of schools will happily take your money. Wings alliance is worth a look as well.
I ‘get’ that the industry has to bottom feed to provide people for the senior positions of the future, but from the research I have done, being under 40 won’t stop you on its own.
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I was a career changer, completed a modular CPL/IR aged 36, first airline job a few months later, now longhaul BA.
It can be done (and UK employers are not allowed to discriminate on age grounds), but be aware of what you are letting yourself in for.
(a) Timing is everything. Qualify at the peak of the job market (like I was lucky enough to do) and you might wonder what all the fuss was about finding your first job. Qualify at the start of a downturn and you might take years trying to get a job - and spend thousands on IR renewals.
(b) From experience, learning new stuff becomes more of a challenge as you get older (old dogs and new tricks...). Not so much of an issue in my thirties, but now I'm closer to 50 it's noticeably harder to get my head in the books and absorb new material. Or maybe I'm just not the sharpest.
(c) Training will cost a small fortune (modular) or a large one (integrated) with possibly a type rating to pay for as well. The longer you wait, the lower your career earnings potential. Paying off a £100k training debt will take a long time, and it would be nice to enjoy some financial rewards before you start worrying about retirement or whether you'll get through your next medical. It was several years before I was earning the same as in my previous career, and closer to 10 years before I could really start saving money.
Don't think I'm trying to put you off - I don't regret the career change for a second, and it still beats the hell out of working in an office. Just make sure you've done your homework before committing.
Feel free to pm me if you want any more advice.
It can be done (and UK employers are not allowed to discriminate on age grounds), but be aware of what you are letting yourself in for.
(a) Timing is everything. Qualify at the peak of the job market (like I was lucky enough to do) and you might wonder what all the fuss was about finding your first job. Qualify at the start of a downturn and you might take years trying to get a job - and spend thousands on IR renewals.
(b) From experience, learning new stuff becomes more of a challenge as you get older (old dogs and new tricks...). Not so much of an issue in my thirties, but now I'm closer to 50 it's noticeably harder to get my head in the books and absorb new material. Or maybe I'm just not the sharpest.
(c) Training will cost a small fortune (modular) or a large one (integrated) with possibly a type rating to pay for as well. The longer you wait, the lower your career earnings potential. Paying off a £100k training debt will take a long time, and it would be nice to enjoy some financial rewards before you start worrying about retirement or whether you'll get through your next medical. It was several years before I was earning the same as in my previous career, and closer to 10 years before I could really start saving money.
Don't think I'm trying to put you off - I don't regret the career change for a second, and it still beats the hell out of working in an office. Just make sure you've done your homework before committing.
Feel free to pm me if you want any more advice.
de minimus non curat lex
Two bits of advice:
1. Obtain your Class One medical before you spend anything on training.
2. Once you have the medical, go to a reputable establishment and obtain your PPL, before going down the modular route.
The Integrated route is more expensive, and doesn't always produce the customer satisfaction you would image, as often highlighted on pprune.
1. Obtain your Class One medical before you spend anything on training.
2. Once you have the medical, go to a reputable establishment and obtain your PPL, before going down the modular route.
The Integrated route is more expensive, and doesn't always produce the customer satisfaction you would image, as often highlighted on pprune.
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Your age will go against you, the airlines look at 20-25 year olds
Depending on on the market at the time you should be OK.
Modular will cost less - and with the correct schools you’ll get the same quality of training.
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errrm.... my experience is different. Given the choice perhaps you may be correct but I know at least 6 guys early 40s and older who have just got their first airline jobs.
Depending on on the market at the time you should be OK.
Modular will cost less - and with the correct schools you’ll get the same quality of training.
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errrm.... my experience is different. Given the choice perhaps you may be correct but I know at least 6 guys early 40s and older who have just got their first airline jobs.
Depending on on the market at the time you should be OK.
Modular will cost less - and with the correct schools you’ll get the same quality of training.
I am 53, have ATPL theory (modular, then IR, CPL, MEP-IR), just finished FI(A), have had 2 Ready-Entry interviews (not flag carriers, but like, whatever), passed both, doing SIM checks end of next month, and turned down 3 offers from SET/MET organizations. What happens in a year or so to the market is difficult to predict, but it should be still worth it.
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When you say correct schools, what are you referring to? Eastern Europe? Genuinely interested.
There are many others out there... try to find one the uses modern methods and equipment. Competency based assessment is still in its infancy but many are moving that way. Visit those who you like and ask to see their training material.
Chat with the instructors... the material is only as good as the instructor that delivers it. It’s that relationship that counts as much as the reputation of the school.
Cost should not be the only driver...
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I started my ppl at 30, completed my cpl/ir modular part time by 33, finished just at the start of the 2008 downturn, not a sniff of a job for 3 years, got my first job at 36 and have now been flying for just over 7 years. You are certainly not too old, you just have to be more realistic in your expectations of what you want to achieve career wise - will you become an A380 captain at BA, unlikely, but would you be able to become an A320 or B737 captain at a low-co - hell yeah.
There are lots of pilots that have had a career change at that age, so ignore the nonsense of airlines only looking for folk in their mid twenties - they will take whoever is the best candidate on the day regardless of age.
Don't bother even wasting your time and especially your money looking at integrated. You can complete a modular course at a good school completely in the UK in a similar time to going integrated for around half the price and often on better, more modern aircraft too. The integrated schools claims about having better job options are only partly true - what they fail to mention in their glossy brochures is that is only for the top 1-2% of each class, outside that you're pretty much on your own.
Depending where you are, I'd recommend looking at either Stapleford in Essex or ACS at Perth in Scotland, both very good modular schools, both training to very high standards and both use the DA-42 Twinstar.
There are lots of pilots that have had a career change at that age, so ignore the nonsense of airlines only looking for folk in their mid twenties - they will take whoever is the best candidate on the day regardless of age.
Don't bother even wasting your time and especially your money looking at integrated. You can complete a modular course at a good school completely in the UK in a similar time to going integrated for around half the price and often on better, more modern aircraft too. The integrated schools claims about having better job options are only partly true - what they fail to mention in their glossy brochures is that is only for the top 1-2% of each class, outside that you're pretty much on your own.
Depending where you are, I'd recommend looking at either Stapleford in Essex or ACS at Perth in Scotland, both very good modular schools, both training to very high standards and both use the DA-42 Twinstar.
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There'll always be naysayers and people who want to put you down. I've had people tell me I'm too old and I am not even thirty yet.
You've always got to look for the bright side and reach for your goals.
There's plenty of evidence of 'older' pilots getting that first job on this board, others and even that ITV series.
Qualifying at 39 means you have a potential 26 year career ahead of you. That's not something to sniff at. Even at the 'national airlines' you could still become a WB captain in that time.
You've always got to look for the bright side and reach for your goals.
There's plenty of evidence of 'older' pilots getting that first job on this board, others and even that ITV series.
Qualifying at 39 means you have a potential 26 year career ahead of you. That's not something to sniff at. Even at the 'national airlines' you could still become a WB captain in that time.
