Will gliding help me become an airline pilot?
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Will gliding help me become an airline pilot?
Hi all,
I have done a few flights in powered aircraft but cannot afford them on a regular basis so was thinking that I would do gliding instead. Would this be a good idea if I want to become an airline pilot in the future or should I stick to the powered flying?
I have done a few flights in powered aircraft but cannot afford them on a regular basis so was thinking that I would do gliding instead. Would this be a good idea if I want to become an airline pilot in the future or should I stick to the powered flying?
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In terms of licensing requirements it will do nothing to help.
In terms of improving your general flying skills and confidence before you embark on powered flying training then yes, I would imagine so.
It certainly won't hurt your chances.
However, if money is that tight maybe just save up for your PPL... I know gliding is relatively cheap in compassion but it will still eat into finances that could be better spent with a view to flying commercially.
In terms of improving your general flying skills and confidence before you embark on powered flying training then yes, I would imagine so.
It certainly won't hurt your chances.
However, if money is that tight maybe just save up for your PPL... I know gliding is relatively cheap in compassion but it will still eat into finances that could be better spent with a view to flying commercially.
de minimus non curat lex
I started gliding at school before powered flying.
It helps develop the basic flying skills ( selecting attitudes & trimming ) and every landing is a force landing (PFL) so this certainly concentrates the mind and develops airmanship.
Your age could be a factor as well.
It helps develop the basic flying skills ( selecting attitudes & trimming ) and every landing is a force landing (PFL) so this certainly concentrates the mind and develops airmanship.
Your age could be a factor as well.
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Cheers for the replies everyone. It sounds like the general opinion is to continue the PPL so I'll carry on with that.
Parkfell: I'm only 16 so I've got a couple of years until I commencement training.
Parkfell: I'm only 16 so I've got a couple of years until I commencement training.
It depends on the route you want to take. In the UK it won't help you, as you need 200 hours to get a CPL. In the US however, you can get a CPL (A) with 100 hours airplane time and the rest in gliders. If you're planning to do a year the the US as a flight instructor to build time, gliding will make that easier, if you're thinking of going straight into an airline I wouldn't bother. Stick and rudder skills will definitely make you a better pilot.
Another thing about gliding - building time will take ages, and you have to like standing around in fields waiting. It's a labour intensive activity, with everyone helping out with launches etc, and because it's a club environment, people tend to be pleasant and polite and disorganised and no one is prepared to crack the whip. You might build more time if you spend that day working an actual job, then spend the money on flying. I know a guy who worked part time at a flight school on the desk in return for flight time. A good way to get a got in the for as an instructor.
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In my experience, I ended up waiting a whole morning or a whole afternoon for a 30-min or 1-hour gliding flight. Not really the best use of my time. If I could do it again, I'd rather put the money on powered aircraft.... with most schools, you turn up, have a short wait, brief, fly, land, debrief, and you go home. No time wasted sitting around or helping out. Not that there's anything wrong with that, if you have the time to spare.
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Thanks again everyone.
I'm in the UK so gliding definitely does not sound brilliant now.
I've got a job so I'm hoping I'll be able to get a flying lesson at least every 8 weeks does that often enough or do I need to supplement it with sim/rc aircraft time?
I'm in the UK so gliding definitely does not sound brilliant now.
I've got a job so I'm hoping I'll be able to get a flying lesson at least every 8 weeks does that often enough or do I need to supplement it with sim/rc aircraft time?
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A balance
Seb320, I was in your position a few years ago so thought I'd give you my two cents seeing as usual on PPRUNE is under-represented by actual glider pilots. I started gliding at 14, went solo at 15, and got my first flying job as an instructor at 18!
Unless you've got big pockets right now, Gliding will get you futher and more experience than power flying will. With some flying schools charging upwards of £150 an hour just for a battered Cessna, it's very difficult to make much progress at all, one maybe two if your lucky lessons a month? Throw in learning to drive, getting a car, girlfriend etc and finances can be a bit tight to learn to fly power that easily, unless you get a PPL scholarship from HCAP or the Air League etc which in that event, go for it!
Gliding is by no means inferior if you choose it, British Airways take their work experience candidates gliding, the most recent deputy recruitment manager in BA has a big gliding background, CTC Aviation partnered up with clubs, the air league and the BGA a couple of years ago to offer 16-18 year olds the chance to glide. So there's definitely some recognised merit and I've found it far easier applying for aviation jobs with it.
Don't listen to all those that say gliding is just about standing around because that culture is fading, during the winter flights are obviously shorter due to the weather, but gliders generally fly in more conditions than your regular spamcan anyway. And where else during the summer can you fly for a couple of hours for less than the price of a circuit? Oh and as for being "disorganised", my club do over 25,000 flights a year, and never have an issue with serviceability of aircraft unlike small flying schools.
As for the skills and opportunities, as many have said stick and rudder skills are good and will at least give you a sense of coordination which will test your aptitude, you'll learn to read the weather, meet people from all different backgrounds from lawyers to factory workers, senior, current and ex airline pilots all with connections (Which if you haven't worked out yet are vital!). You'll almost certainly have more fun flying gliders too, it's not just flying in straight lines for bacon butties, there's always a challenge and many people move onto aerobatic training which is out of this world, two 17 year olds from my club are on the British Aerobatic Team going to the World Glider Aerobatic Championships, both went solo at 14! So you're by no means the youngest!
If you get competent and get to licence standard in Gliding you can then convert to powered for less hours, some clubs have a motorglider that you can learn to fly for £80 an hour, from there it's a conversion at a flying school onto SEP. Then if you're still keen there's the potential to hour build flying the towplane, my friend who's just turned 19 now has 300 hours half of which on tailwheel towing gliders, you can't possibly turn an opportunity like that down, it could save you thousands if you ended up going the modular route.
Or when more experienced in gliders, you could mix it up, and you could teach people to glide in the UK and abroad as a gap year, my friend did that at London Gliding Club whilst flying the towplane on and off, he then finished his CPL and now flies 737 for Titan at 20 year old! More often than not you'll get your instructor rating paid for and a job offer too, not many avenues in flying are as accessible as gliding!
Cost of gliding? Your local club at Ringmer near Lewes charges less than a fiver for a circuit and only £11 an hour for glider hire and no instructor fees. Absolute bargain for under 26s, probably one of the cheapest places in the UK! That area is beautiful and in northerly winds is fantastic for flying at high speed along the south downs! Parham Gliding Club is not too far away either!
Plenty of scholarships too, if you can get yourself a PPL one then go for it, but there's lots of gliding ones available too to get you solo for free, up to licence standard and beyond.
Check out UK Junior Gliding too online, see why thousands of other young people have learned to glide and made gliding the best junior movement in GA?
Gliding certainly requires more time than power flying, but as usual, the more you put into flying, the more you get out. You'll generally be asked to commit at least half a day, but you'll get a lot of skills from maintenance to airfield operations and maybe even driving the mower! All good things from the CV!
But ultimately, It's your choice, fly once or twice a month trying to scrap together a PPL (£10,000+) unless you're loaded and then wonder how to fund an ATPL or go gliding for next to nothing, have an easier and more diverse route into power flying and maybe save yourself some cash when it comes to hour building?
Oh and if you are considering doing an integrated ATPL there's no point doing a PPL as you'll be made to re-do it all again, or worse, be rejected for having too many hours (there is such a thing as too much experience!)
I hope that gives a more balanced view, I had exactly the same dilemma but I would be broke if I had tried to do a PPL at 16, feel free to PM.
Unless you've got big pockets right now, Gliding will get you futher and more experience than power flying will. With some flying schools charging upwards of £150 an hour just for a battered Cessna, it's very difficult to make much progress at all, one maybe two if your lucky lessons a month? Throw in learning to drive, getting a car, girlfriend etc and finances can be a bit tight to learn to fly power that easily, unless you get a PPL scholarship from HCAP or the Air League etc which in that event, go for it!
Gliding is by no means inferior if you choose it, British Airways take their work experience candidates gliding, the most recent deputy recruitment manager in BA has a big gliding background, CTC Aviation partnered up with clubs, the air league and the BGA a couple of years ago to offer 16-18 year olds the chance to glide. So there's definitely some recognised merit and I've found it far easier applying for aviation jobs with it.
Don't listen to all those that say gliding is just about standing around because that culture is fading, during the winter flights are obviously shorter due to the weather, but gliders generally fly in more conditions than your regular spamcan anyway. And where else during the summer can you fly for a couple of hours for less than the price of a circuit? Oh and as for being "disorganised", my club do over 25,000 flights a year, and never have an issue with serviceability of aircraft unlike small flying schools.
As for the skills and opportunities, as many have said stick and rudder skills are good and will at least give you a sense of coordination which will test your aptitude, you'll learn to read the weather, meet people from all different backgrounds from lawyers to factory workers, senior, current and ex airline pilots all with connections (Which if you haven't worked out yet are vital!). You'll almost certainly have more fun flying gliders too, it's not just flying in straight lines for bacon butties, there's always a challenge and many people move onto aerobatic training which is out of this world, two 17 year olds from my club are on the British Aerobatic Team going to the World Glider Aerobatic Championships, both went solo at 14! So you're by no means the youngest!
If you get competent and get to licence standard in Gliding you can then convert to powered for less hours, some clubs have a motorglider that you can learn to fly for £80 an hour, from there it's a conversion at a flying school onto SEP. Then if you're still keen there's the potential to hour build flying the towplane, my friend who's just turned 19 now has 300 hours half of which on tailwheel towing gliders, you can't possibly turn an opportunity like that down, it could save you thousands if you ended up going the modular route.
Or when more experienced in gliders, you could mix it up, and you could teach people to glide in the UK and abroad as a gap year, my friend did that at London Gliding Club whilst flying the towplane on and off, he then finished his CPL and now flies 737 for Titan at 20 year old! More often than not you'll get your instructor rating paid for and a job offer too, not many avenues in flying are as accessible as gliding!
Cost of gliding? Your local club at Ringmer near Lewes charges less than a fiver for a circuit and only £11 an hour for glider hire and no instructor fees. Absolute bargain for under 26s, probably one of the cheapest places in the UK! That area is beautiful and in northerly winds is fantastic for flying at high speed along the south downs! Parham Gliding Club is not too far away either!
Plenty of scholarships too, if you can get yourself a PPL one then go for it, but there's lots of gliding ones available too to get you solo for free, up to licence standard and beyond.
Check out UK Junior Gliding too online, see why thousands of other young people have learned to glide and made gliding the best junior movement in GA?
Gliding certainly requires more time than power flying, but as usual, the more you put into flying, the more you get out. You'll generally be asked to commit at least half a day, but you'll get a lot of skills from maintenance to airfield operations and maybe even driving the mower! All good things from the CV!
But ultimately, It's your choice, fly once or twice a month trying to scrap together a PPL (£10,000+) unless you're loaded and then wonder how to fund an ATPL or go gliding for next to nothing, have an easier and more diverse route into power flying and maybe save yourself some cash when it comes to hour building?
Oh and if you are considering doing an integrated ATPL there's no point doing a PPL as you'll be made to re-do it all again, or worse, be rejected for having too many hours (there is such a thing as too much experience!)
I hope that gives a more balanced view, I had exactly the same dilemma but I would be broke if I had tried to do a PPL at 16, feel free to PM.
That’s exactin how I started as I didn’t have the funds to do my PPL.
It’s still about the enjoyment of flight at this stage. It will develop your flying skills as well as decision making, risk analysis and your first solo. Not to mention social skills if you fly in a club setting.
Probably 10-15% professional pilots among the members at the club I flew. You’ll get lots of tips, advice and recommendations.
As far as saving your money? Everybody has an opinion.
You may very well save money in the long run as you may need less training hours in powered flight as you already know...how to fly.
Six of one and half a dozen of the other.
Start flying gliders, there’s nothing more beautiful and poetic.
And yes I’ve made it to an airline and thank flying gliders for lighting the flame that despite all odds and setbacks never extinguished.
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So with gliding I can do it cheaper then and then convert the licence from a SPL to a PPL(A) then?
The flying schools round here seem to be charging closer to if not over £200 an hour and I had Ringmer recommended to me by a BA pilot so I'll go and have a look.
The flying schools round here seem to be charging closer to if not over £200 an hour and I had Ringmer recommended to me by a BA pilot so I'll go and have a look.
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Licencing laws are changing quick, Gliding Licences haven't come into force yet as we operate under national regulation and there's still some questionmarks over when it'll change. In simplest terms gliding experience can be credited towards a initial PPL but you might only get a 10 hour reduction off the minimum. However once you are at licence standard with gliders, with only 6 hours training you can convert to a motorglider which gives you a halfway house and at a cost of around £80ph and cruises around 80kt, that's been my route into power. From there, avenues open up to flying Cessnas/Pipers etc after some more training. Again there's a lot of change occurring in licencing, so don't worry about SPLs etc yet. Do gliding for the handling skills, networking and fun, once you get yourself to licence standard then see what the situation is, gliding takes just as much skill and practice to learn as power flying. Even just going solo in a glider will set you in good steed for interviews as well as scholarship applications and won't cost you anywhere near as much. (PPL solo generally costs north of £2k). And if you are lucky you might be able to get your solo paid for as there is a lot of bursaries and scholarships available for gliding Pop down to Ringmer and see what the score is. Have fun 
P.S As a flying instructor I can guarantee a PPL lesson every 8 weeks will get you nowhere. Needs to be every month as a minimum. Same goes for Gliding.
P.S As a flying instructor I can guarantee a PPL lesson every 8 weeks will get you nowhere. Needs to be every month as a minimum. Same goes for Gliding.
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I'd say so. I started gliding at 15 and it's been one of the best decisions I've made. Cheap and fun flying, great junior schemes and plenty of scholarships available for grabs.
You'll also find a good amount of commercial pilots fly gliders or have done in the past. Gliding, in general, will make you a better pilot, especially for stick and rudder skills and decision making. Also looks good for CV's and flight school applications.
I was in your position before, so any questions feel free to PM me.
You'll also find a good amount of commercial pilots fly gliders or have done in the past. Gliding, in general, will make you a better pilot, especially for stick and rudder skills and decision making. Also looks good for CV's and flight school applications.
I was in your position before, so any questions feel free to PM me.
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I started flying gliders a few years ago, currently the holder of a BGA Bronze plus Cross Country Endorsement.
Firstly, given you're 16, you will at some point likely be looking for a career or further studies at some point in the near future. Gliding can really help with the life experience side of things, particularly if you apply for anything safety critical, it'll give you quite a bit to talk about at interviews. If you do apply to the airlines in a couple of years for any mentored/funded programmes, you'll likely get asked about how you can demonstrate your interest in aviation. Gliding gives you a good example of that. It's the same with scholarships or the UAS if you go to uni.
Additionally, being a member of a gliding club can be useful post-PPL since you're going to be in a much stronger position to gain a position as one of the volunteer tug-pilots. Some clubs have seasonal tuggies who fly to hour build, you could probably get a couple of hundred hours over a summer, which either gives you extra hours on the modular side, or reduces your hour-building costs.
It is possible after a couple of years (depending on how much you fly) to become an instructor, if you were to look for an instructing job after doing a modular fATPL, I would think that the experience of having instructed previously would put you in a good position for an instructing gig.
Many gliding clubs operate a "cadet scheme", where being 16-21 and in full time education will get you massively susbsidised/free flying.
It also gives you the opportunity to network, aviation can be a small world and knowing someone who knows someone can, from what I hear, be useful from time-to-time.
Firstly, given you're 16, you will at some point likely be looking for a career or further studies at some point in the near future. Gliding can really help with the life experience side of things, particularly if you apply for anything safety critical, it'll give you quite a bit to talk about at interviews. If you do apply to the airlines in a couple of years for any mentored/funded programmes, you'll likely get asked about how you can demonstrate your interest in aviation. Gliding gives you a good example of that. It's the same with scholarships or the UAS if you go to uni.
Additionally, being a member of a gliding club can be useful post-PPL since you're going to be in a much stronger position to gain a position as one of the volunteer tug-pilots. Some clubs have seasonal tuggies who fly to hour build, you could probably get a couple of hundred hours over a summer, which either gives you extra hours on the modular side, or reduces your hour-building costs.
It is possible after a couple of years (depending on how much you fly) to become an instructor, if you were to look for an instructing job after doing a modular fATPL, I would think that the experience of having instructed previously would put you in a good position for an instructing gig.
Many gliding clubs operate a "cadet scheme", where being 16-21 and in full time education will get you massively susbsidised/free flying.
It also gives you the opportunity to network, aviation can be a small world and knowing someone who knows someone can, from what I hear, be useful from time-to-time.
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planesandthings I know I’m two years late, but reading through this thread I found your response in particular incredibly constructive, being in a position similar to the OP 
. (I have a feeling your Titan friend may well be the same fellow that gave me a taste for gliding just last week).
I’m not sure if anyone will pick this up as it’s so old, but I’m trying to work out how the 30hr glider PIC credit to CPL license actually works. From what I gather this can only be used towards the 200TT for CPL ISSUE and NOT the 100 PIC/150TT required to start training. If you’re going down the airline route then you’ll also need an MEIR and so the remaining 25hrs or so TT after CPL training will come from the IR course unless I’ve missed something (I’m hoping I am).
Cheers,
H4R
. (I have a feeling your Titan friend may well be the same fellow that gave me a taste for gliding just last week). Cheers,
H4R
