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Old 19th May 2017, 16:59   #21 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: France
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverserbucket View Post
Are you seriously suggesting that ATO's permit weak candidates to continue training despite the potential risk to both the individual from a financial/career perspective and an operator from a cost and safety point of view....
Yes, absolutely.
Because the flight school isn't making any passenger take any risk.
The only people who could endanger future passengers are :
- CAA examiners
- Airline recruiters

And none of them have a say in who gets accepted into flight training.

So basically, any incompetent who wants to have a CPL will go to a modular school and pay for CPL training. The school will tell them with more or less emphasis that it will be hard for them to pass the CPL test within the minima, but they will gladly accept the guy's money

FTOs are companies and they basically don't care about the well being of their customers, as long as they get their money.

Obviously I'm telling that with a caricatural tone.
Flight instructors are human beings and they will probably be empathetic with their student's financial well being. But at the end of the day they will always know that only a CAA examiner can give a CPL to a candidate.
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Old 19th May 2017, 17:06   #22 (permalink)
bristol.gs
 
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Indeed KayPam, that is absolutely right. But you miss the point that Ryanair say there is no difference in quality between integrated and modular candidates and their 50% 'unemployable' stat applies equally to both. That statement was first made in response to a claim by an integrated ATO executive at a recruitment conference that only they were the producers of quality pilots and that, in their view, the modular route should be closed down.
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Old 19th May 2017, 17:26   #23 (permalink)
 
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Alex
Quote:
As to the contract you mention, the contractor, who we will call flight school D, emptied the bottom of its holding pool in the direction of the poor airline, and gossip has it that they were even phoning up hopefuls who had been thrown out of the holding pool two years before in an effort to fill slots. I doubt that really helps the airline.
That's as I understand it. My rhetorical question at the end was tongue in cheek however concerning RYR, I know of particularly weak candidates who have been recommended by integrated ATO's in favour of their higher performing peers (with respect to attitude, motivation and ability). Your appraisal seems to confirm what I have long suspected, which is that School A possibly streams the stronger candidates for airline B recruitment with a view to return business whilst those weaker but with an ability to pay for a type rating are promoted for Airline C interviews ahead of potentially better candidates to help 'drain the swamp'. Airline C is never likely to contract school A or anyone else for initial training so the only risk for the school is that Airline C will seek throughput from other schools if the quality is consistently dire.

KayPam
Quote:
But at the end of the day they will always know that only a CAA examiner can give a CPL to a candidate.
Would that be a CAA approved FE CPL who is paid for through or worse still, employed by the same school that conducted the candidates training? Impartiality assured, no doubt.
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Old 19th May 2017, 17:43   #24 (permalink)
 
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Well, the best case scenario when a student is below average is that you're going to sell him more training hours, and that he won't pass the test.

If the student does not guarantee a safe flight, he won't have his CPL, whomever pays the FE.
If the student is below average... Well, about half of currently flying airline pilots are below average. That's the definition of average, below average does not mean you're incompetent.

This is all coming from stories heard with several instructors of my th ATPL school.
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Old 19th May 2017, 18:56   #25 (permalink)
bristol.gs
 
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and Reverserbucket...

Quote:
As to the contract you mention, the contractor, who we will call flight school D, emptied the bottom of its holding pool in the direction of the poor airline, and gossip has it that they were even phoning up hopefuls who had been thrown out of the holding pool two years before in an effort to fill slots. I doubt that really helps the airline.
The airline executive who placed the contract with Flight School D has now left and is working for ....... Flight School D. Gin and tonic anyone?
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Old 19th May 2017, 21:12   #26 (permalink)
 
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Has anybody ever thought about what an airline's selection team are looking for? If you are given a profile, they expect a reasonable attempt from candidates in showing they have tried to learn it. Then they want to see the poor sods in front of them can learn and show improvement. Lastly, they want to know they can spend a day or two with these particular space cadets. Nobody cares if you did a JOC or hyper-active dogwalking course - what matters is what is presented on the day.
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