Have to re-do ATPL theory exams...please help
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Have to re-do ATPL theory exams...please help
Hello everyone,
I am new on this forum so please bear with me.
Long story short, the UK CAA has given me the heart breaking news that my ATPL theory credit has expired since I haven't entered an IR for 7 years in the EASA license. I previously did the ATPL exams in 2008 and obtained a JAR CPL/IR shortly afterwards. Since then I have been flying in North America and the Middle East on an ICAO license. That being said, I really need help gathering information on how to proceed with re-taking these 14 theory exams.
I have tried to contact the UK CAA by email, but they are not responding. I don't know if they have a phone number (can anyone provide?)
What I am trying to find out is if I need to go through an ATO to do the exams or if I can simply do my own self study for the material and schedule the exams at my own leisure.
Also I would greatly appreciate any guidance as to which apps (Bristol, Oxford, CTC, PilotPad, Dauntless) are the best for distance learning purposes.
Im very sorry for the long winded post but I am reaching out for help here from any fellow students and pilots who can help me get through this hurdle with the CAA. Thanks everyone and safe flying. Looking forward to any responses!
I am new on this forum so please bear with me.
Long story short, the UK CAA has given me the heart breaking news that my ATPL theory credit has expired since I haven't entered an IR for 7 years in the EASA license. I previously did the ATPL exams in 2008 and obtained a JAR CPL/IR shortly afterwards. Since then I have been flying in North America and the Middle East on an ICAO license. That being said, I really need help gathering information on how to proceed with re-taking these 14 theory exams.
I have tried to contact the UK CAA by email, but they are not responding. I don't know if they have a phone number (can anyone provide?)
What I am trying to find out is if I need to go through an ATO to do the exams or if I can simply do my own self study for the material and schedule the exams at my own leisure.
Also I would greatly appreciate any guidance as to which apps (Bristol, Oxford, CTC, PilotPad, Dauntless) are the best for distance learning purposes.
Im very sorry for the long winded post but I am reaching out for help here from any fellow students and pilots who can help me get through this hurdle with the CAA. Thanks everyone and safe flying. Looking forward to any responses!
Hi
I am redoing my exams at the moment as I never took the CPL or IR with 3 years of passing.
For myself I needed to be put forward by a school and did this through my previous one (CATS). I do not need to redo the brush up course so it was a low fee just to give me access to the online study guides and progress test. Who did you go through previously?
As for study guides, there are so many available used I ended up buying a few and have a full set of CATS, Bristol and Oxford ones. I also use the Bristol online question bank as preparation for the exams.
I am redoing my exams at the moment as I never took the CPL or IR with 3 years of passing.
For myself I needed to be put forward by a school and did this through my previous one (CATS). I do not need to redo the brush up course so it was a low fee just to give me access to the online study guides and progress test. Who did you go through previously?
As for study guides, there are so many available used I ended up buying a few and have a full set of CATS, Bristol and Oxford ones. I also use the Bristol online question bank as preparation for the exams.
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Get EASA Professional Studies by Phil Croucher. All the ATPL syllabus in one book straight to the point. It's my main source of studying. If you want an "app" then I am happy with Bristol GS, but get that book anyway.
Because of the nature of the EASA exams, you do need a good question bank and if you are doing your exams at a UK CAA venue then you should be good to go with Bristol GS question bank. If you are doing it under another CAA then Aviation Exam has more questions. Bristol GS weeds out questions that they know are not asked anymore by the UK CAA.
And if I am not mistaken, given your situation you don't need to be enrolled in any ground school course and you can do everything at your own leisure.
Because of the nature of the EASA exams, you do need a good question bank and if you are doing your exams at a UK CAA venue then you should be good to go with Bristol GS question bank. If you are doing it under another CAA then Aviation Exam has more questions. Bristol GS weeds out questions that they know are not asked anymore by the UK CAA.
And if I am not mistaken, given your situation you don't need to be enrolled in any ground school course and you can do everything at your own leisure.
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You would need to have a minimum number of hours on a multicrew aircraft to be able to self-certify, as well as an ICAO ATP.
CAA are at 01293 567171 or similar.
Avoid Dauntless.
CAA are at 01293 567171 or similar.
Avoid Dauntless.
If the OP holds or has held an IR issued by a third country in accordance with ICAO Annex 1 within the last 7 years, there is no requirement to re-take the theoretical knowledge examinations.
ORS4 No.1090 B 5) Derogation from FCL.625(c) and (d) with respect to renewal of an Instrument Rating
Pursuant to Article 1 of Commission Decision 2014/69/EU, the United Kingdom allows the holders of licences issued in accordance with Part-FCL to renew their IR privileges without passing again the theoretical knowledge examinations for the IR, if they have held a valid IR on the licence of any third country within the seven years preceding IR renewal, provided that the third country licence is compliant with Annex I to the International Convention for Civil Aviation (ICAO Annex I)
ORS4 No.1090 B 5) Derogation from FCL.625(c) and (d) with respect to renewal of an Instrument Rating
Pursuant to Article 1 of Commission Decision 2014/69/EU, the United Kingdom allows the holders of licences issued in accordance with Part-FCL to renew their IR privileges without passing again the theoretical knowledge examinations for the IR, if they have held a valid IR on the licence of any third country within the seven years preceding IR renewal, provided that the third country licence is compliant with Annex I to the International Convention for Civil Aviation (ICAO Annex I)
That derogation concerns the IR rather than the ATPL theory credit. The authority would need to additionally derogate FCL.025(c)(2)(i).
FCL.025 Theoretical knowledge examinations for the issue of licences and ratings
(c) Validity period
(c) Validity period
(2) The completion of the airline transport pilot licence (ATPL) theoretical knowledge examinations will remain valid for the issue of an ATPL for a period of 7 years from the last validity date of:
(i) an IR entered in the licence; or
...
...
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Yes I failed to mention that all of my flying for the last 10 years have been instrument based on multi crew aircraft. I have 7000 hours of multi crew time and I am flying LHS B787 at the moment and I am current.
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What I was told by the UK CAA when I was looking to do my ATPL skills test, is that my theory has expired because I have not entered an IR in the EASA license for more than 7 years. They also quoted the derogation for the IR and made it clear that it ONLY applies to anyone applying for an IR who has not entered one in their EASA license for 7 years.
So regardless of the fact that I have been flying all over Europe on Airbus and Boeing aircraft during those 7 years, they do not consider my IR experience valid towards the issue of an ATPL license because it was not entered in the EASA license (flights on the ICAO licenses are not counted). If I would have done an EASA IR at any point in those 7 years then the ATPL theory credit would have been extended or reset to an additional 7 year period from that point forward.
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My 0.02€ - Have a look at other EASA member states. They all follow the same rules, but there are still substantial regional differences when interpreting them.
Personal story - I got a medical in country A, after being rejected in country B. Some countries require you to renew the MEIR in an airplane only, with a valid MEP, and others allow you to revalidate in the sim without a need for a mep (saving $$)
Shop around. If the UK CAA is pulling your legs, try somewhere else. The license is still valid, no matter which EASA state issued it.
Personal story - I got a medical in country A, after being rejected in country B. Some countries require you to renew the MEIR in an airplane only, with a valid MEP, and others allow you to revalidate in the sim without a need for a mep (saving $$)
Shop around. If the UK CAA is pulling your legs, try somewhere else. The license is still valid, no matter which EASA state issued it.
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Could someone please quote the EASA rule stating that anyone with more than 500 hours multi crew does not need to go through an ATO for the ATPL theoretical exams. I would hate to go through these exams only to find out I needed to be signed off by an ATO.
A big thanks for all the replies so far!
A big thanks for all the replies so far!
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Aircrew Regulation Article 8 para 4. It actually says that if you meet all the requirements for EASA ATPL issue (only part of which is 500 hours of multi-pilot operation) and hold an ICAO ATPL you are exempt the requirement for approved training.
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Thanks again for all the great responses. I can finally say with a good degree of certainty that I now know how to proceed with retaking these 14 exams. Seeing that I don't need any form of ground school this time around I might go ahead and study the material on my own and at my own pace.
I will definitely looking to EASA Professional Pilot Studies by Phil Croucher. I am also comparing question banks. I will most likely be doing the EASA exams in Cyprus since I have been in touch with the CAA there and it suits my needs perfectly. I am looking into Aviation Exam for the question bank as I like that they have an iPad app that works offline as well.
Does anyone else have any suggestions as far as study aids or question banks that I should be considering? Keep the great answers coming, I can't thank you all enough for all the help!
I will definitely looking to EASA Professional Pilot Studies by Phil Croucher. I am also comparing question banks. I will most likely be doing the EASA exams in Cyprus since I have been in touch with the CAA there and it suits my needs perfectly. I am looking into Aviation Exam for the question bank as I like that they have an iPad app that works offline as well.
Does anyone else have any suggestions as far as study aids or question banks that I should be considering? Keep the great answers coming, I can't thank you all enough for all the help!
I suggest you pm Alex Whittingham above as he runs Bristol Ground-school. Without him many of us would have a much harder time getting our ATPLs.
Last edited by Ivor Fynn; 15th Dec 2016 at 16:47.
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That is exactly correct selfin.
What I was told by the UK CAA when I was looking to do my ATPL skills test, is that my theory has expired because I have not entered an IR in the EASA license for more than 7 years. They also quoted the derogation for the IR and made it clear that it ONLY applies to anyone applying for an IR who has not entered one in their EASA license for 7 years.
So regardless of the fact that I have been flying all over Europe on Airbus and Boeing aircraft during those 7 years, they do not consider my IR experience valid towards the issue of an ATPL license because it was not entered in the EASA license (flights on the ICAO licenses are not counted). If I would have done an EASA IR at any point in those 7 years then the ATPL theory credit would have been extended or reset to an additional 7 year period from that point forward.
What I was told by the UK CAA when I was looking to do my ATPL skills test, is that my theory has expired because I have not entered an IR in the EASA license for more than 7 years. They also quoted the derogation for the IR and made it clear that it ONLY applies to anyone applying for an IR who has not entered one in their EASA license for 7 years.
So regardless of the fact that I have been flying all over Europe on Airbus and Boeing aircraft during those 7 years, they do not consider my IR experience valid towards the issue of an ATPL license because it was not entered in the EASA license (flights on the ICAO licenses are not counted). If I would have done an EASA IR at any point in those 7 years then the ATPL theory credit would have been extended or reset to an additional 7 year period from that point forward.
A guy that has thousands and thousands of hours flying jets in europe has to get back to classroom to "learn" basics again, especially when tons of the sutff you're going to study is totally outdated! Honestly, I feel for you man...
I hold FAA and EASA and the amount of burocracy you have to go through when converting/validating stuff from one to the other is ludicrous!
I can recommend AviationExam, you'll be in good hands
Good luck!
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How hard to get it in EASA... I got my full ATP in Brazil with only 1,500 flight hours in a Cessna 152 (as Flight instrutor), our ground test is about Performance and Weight and Balance (40 questions) and then 1.5 (01:30) hours flying a Piper Sêneca (SID, 1 VOR and 1 FULL ILS)
Last edited by B777FO; 17th Dec 2016 at 20:45.