Validity theorical ATPL to obtain a CPL

[atr72_500]

Hello,

This is my situation: PPL(A)+ IR(A) + ATPL theorical passed more than 36 month.

I would like to get a CPL and some people tell me that my ATPL theorical isnīt valid, according to FCL025:

The successful completion of the theoretical knowledge examinations will be valid:
for the issue of a commercial pilot licence, instrument rating (IR) or en route
instrument rating (EIR), for a period of 36 months

But the FCL025 say also:

The completion of the airline transport pilot licence (ATPL) theoretical knowledge
examinations will remain valid for the issue of an ATPL for a period of 7 years from the last
validity date of:
(i) an IR entered in the licence

Being this my situation. An IR entered in the licence.

On the otherhand, FCL035 say:

An applicant having passed the theoretical knowledge examination for an airline transport
pilot licence shall be credited with the theoretical knowledge requirements for the light
aircraft pilot licence, the private pilot licence, the commercial pilot licence

So I think that I can use my theorical ATPL to be credited the theorical CPL althoug that 40 months ago that I passed the exams.

Is this correct?

[paco]

The first para looks as if it refers to the CPL, so it looks as if you are correct. the final authority is the CAA of course.

[Alex Whittingham]

Agree. You started with a PPL, passed ATPL theory, and the exams were valid for 36 months for the issue of a CPL and/or an IR. You take the IR test in the 36 month period and, as you pass the test, validity extends from 36 months to 7 years. You take the CPL test in the 7 year period and you get a CPL/IR, no further exams required and ATPL theory validity remains at 7 years from the last IR renewal. In time you make the hours and qualifications for ATPL, CPL/IR becomes an ATPL.

[RTN11]

I don't think you can look at it that way.

The successful completion of the theoretical knowledge examinations will be valid:
for the issue of a commercial pilot licence, instrument rating (IR) or en route
instrument rating (EIR), for a period of 36 months

is pretty black and white, you have 36 months to get both a CPL and an IR. The CAA will not recognise these exams for issue of a CPL after 36 months, you will have to retake them in order to get a CPL issued.

The completion of the airline transport pilot licence (ATPL) theoretical knowledge
examinations will remain valid for the issue of an ATPL for a period of 7 years from the last
validity date of:
(i) an IR entered in the licence

It literally says it right in there, valid for the issue of an ATPL. You are not applying for an ATPL, not even close. These exams will not be valid for the issue of a CPL. The only reason a CPL isn't listed in the second set of requirements is that an EASA CPL is valid for life, so it doesn't factor in. You can let an IR expire, but still not lose the exams for 7 years, then eventually get your APTL. An ATPL and a CPL are very different things, you cannot use expired exams for issue of a CPL.

[paco]

Fair point, but the first paragraph doesn't say which exams. Neither does the second paragraph mention what happens if you take the ATP exams in relation to the CPL. As mentioned, talk to the CAA (ltspolicy) for their opinion

[RTN11]

the first paragraph doesn't say which exams

That's because the rule quoted is specifically dealing with the ATPL exams, and states it in the title.

In the UK, CAP 804 gives further guidance:

Failure to comply with Acceptance Period

If a CPL and IR for aeroplanes (or CPL and type rating in the case of helicopters) are not
granted within the 36 month acceptance period then the ATPL theory credit will lapse and candidates will be required to re-pass all ATPL theoretical knowledge examinations
to regain ATPL theory credit.

However, where a candidate has previously passed all ATPL theoretical knowledge examinations but was not granted a CPL/IR within the 36 month acceptance period, the amount of ATPL theoretical knowledge instruction will
be at the discretion of the Approved ATO.

It's pretty clear that you must get both a CPL and an IR within the 36 months, otherwise the exams are no longer valid for the initial issue of either. You then need to retake all the exams, however, the training required will be at the discretion of the ATO rather than having to redo the full approved course.

Note that the 36 months is for the grant of the licence, not starting the course, so yours are well out of date. Please do not spend any money on CPL training until you have re-done the exams, as it is highly likely any application for a CPL will be rejected until you retake the exams, possibly invalidating any CPL training you may have done in the meantime.

Any ATO worth the money will know all of this, and not put you on a CPL course as you are not eligible to start one.

[Alex Whittingham]

The section of CAP 804 you quote is only a CAA interpretation and was probably written for the more common circumstance where people get CPL first, then the IR some time later. However (i) CAP 804 itself is now withdrawn, recognising that many rules (and interpretations) have changed since April 2015 and (ii) FCL025 says clearly that ATR's exams are valid for ATPL issue and it would be bizzare if FCL035 was found not to apply for CPL issue without an explicit exclusion. Given the clear difference of interpretations, though, the simplest thing for ATR700 to do would be to email the CAA and ask them.

See CAA website