Daughter has passed but.......
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Daughter has passed but.......
Hi All. A concerned Father.
My dear daughter passed her commercial fly exams at Oxford academy in March and is now a commercial pilot. Proud Dad moment.
BUT whilst she did great at the actual flying bit, really good, ground school she only got through. One exam taken 4 times, most twice but ended with the average for EASA 82%.
However her shyness took hold during ground school and her Program Lecturer states she struggled and did not really help herself. Her average was 70.8%
All other comments by other lecturer's is good to very good but this chap less so. Now I know nothing about flying but I do know about employing people and if I wanted to employ some one to fly a big plane, these comments would not go down well.
The words team player would catch my eye more.
She has only had a few interviews but nothing as yet 4 months on.
So am I right to think that the less than great words for ground school would put some one off.
Be truthful please
My dear daughter passed her commercial fly exams at Oxford academy in March and is now a commercial pilot. Proud Dad moment.
BUT whilst she did great at the actual flying bit, really good, ground school she only got through. One exam taken 4 times, most twice but ended with the average for EASA 82%.
However her shyness took hold during ground school and her Program Lecturer states she struggled and did not really help herself. Her average was 70.8%
All other comments by other lecturer's is good to very good but this chap less so. Now I know nothing about flying but I do know about employing people and if I wanted to employ some one to fly a big plane, these comments would not go down well.
The words team player would catch my eye more.
She has only had a few interviews but nothing as yet 4 months on.
So am I right to think that the less than great words for ground school would put some one off.
Be truthful please
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In reality the groundschool exams bear little reflection of what the job entails on a day to day basis.
They do however, reflect on an individuals ability to absorb and retain information over a short period of time which is important as extra training costs extra money and those who have struggled may be a training risk and require extra training and therefore cost in the future. One of the main purposes of the interview is to determine whether an applicant will be successful in training. Beyond this the airlines are hiring Captains not First Officers. They need to believe the individual is capable of becoming a Captain.
The fact your daughter has had some interviews already is both good and bad.
The majority of graduates find it extremely difficult to get any kind of interview.
The disappointing/worrying part is that none of these have lead to anything yet.
Were these interviews arranged by Oxford? Has she applied independently to the smaller airlines and operators?
To be successful she will need to be able to explain why the setback occurred, how she overcame it and turn the whole experience into a positive.
Perseverance and confidence are what are going to take her to the next stage.
Good luck!
They do however, reflect on an individuals ability to absorb and retain information over a short period of time which is important as extra training costs extra money and those who have struggled may be a training risk and require extra training and therefore cost in the future. One of the main purposes of the interview is to determine whether an applicant will be successful in training. Beyond this the airlines are hiring Captains not First Officers. They need to believe the individual is capable of becoming a Captain.
The fact your daughter has had some interviews already is both good and bad.
The majority of graduates find it extremely difficult to get any kind of interview.
The disappointing/worrying part is that none of these have lead to anything yet.
Were these interviews arranged by Oxford? Has she applied independently to the smaller airlines and operators?
To be successful she will need to be able to explain why the setback occurred, how she overcame it and turn the whole experience into a positive.
Perseverance and confidence are what are going to take her to the next stage.
Good luck!
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The good thing for her is, while she will not be given a job for free, being female will land her lots of interviews. She should find temporary employment if some sort (everything around flight operations planning would be first choice), keep her license current, go to all aviation related fairs and exibitions and learn from every assessment and interview. Being qualified is one thing, being employable is another. Some need a little longer to learn that craft (and it really is one).
She will figure out, just keep going. Almost nobody is a well employed pilot a few months out of flight school, in fact it is pretty normal to be trying and trying for a couple of years.
She will figure out, just keep going. Almost nobody is a well employed pilot a few months out of flight school, in fact it is pretty normal to be trying and trying for a couple of years.
I would suggest that her record on the academic side of the course would flag her up as a training risk to many potential employers, she needs to interview and test very well to overcome that.
de minimus non curat lex
What age was your daughter when training began?
Were the EASA exam outcomes a reflection of her "Os" & "As"?.
Maths & Physics ~ a strong suite?
Invariably the school's reports are seen by the prospective employer in a competitive market.
Probably the outcome of the MCC/JOC course is the most important, as it is an indication of potential.
If airline interviews dry up, consider the instruction route to gain experience. Then try again after 2 years.
Were the EASA exam outcomes a reflection of her "Os" & "As"?.
Maths & Physics ~ a strong suite?
Invariably the school's reports are seen by the prospective employer in a competitive market.
Probably the outcome of the MCC/JOC course is the most important, as it is an indication of potential.
If airline interviews dry up, consider the instruction route to gain experience. Then try again after 2 years.
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Dear All
Thank you for your replies.
"To be successful she will need to be able to explain why the setback occurred, how she overcame it and turn the whole experience into a positive."
This can be over come. She worked for Tesco's for 2 years to earn money. She got a great reference as a team player, reliable and very positive.
Thank you for your replies.
"To be successful she will need to be able to explain why the setback occurred, how she overcame it and turn the whole experience into a positive."
This can be over come. She worked for Tesco's for 2 years to earn money. She got a great reference as a team player, reliable and very positive.
fly small airplanes
OP, your first post implies that you do not see the way for daughter to fly large airplanes....currently. In that case switch the job search to small airplane operations, hunt intensively, start with virtually anything offered, always ready to move for small improvement, build some airtime soon as you can, thus build confidence and experience........the airline slot may or may not be offered in future but some people do have a useful career in general aviation.
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I'm sure Oxford as already given her a lot of interview prep but, There are interview and preparation courses ran at the beehive in Gatwick by airline pilots well versed in recruiting pilot. that might help draw out your daughters strengths and weakness which will let her know what to focus on at interview, assessment, sim checks etc.
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Agree with Rifrufian...
but the route of the small aviation is even more difficult! You dont get a job unless you know someone, only going to Africa and even there the competition of non experienced is very hard.
but the route of the small aviation is even more difficult! You dont get a job unless you know someone, only going to Africa and even there the competition of non experienced is very hard.
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Can strongly recommend getting some kind of flight operations job at a local operator. Think about air taxi/private jet companies and the like. Not only will it be relevant experience (it's amazing how little some pilots know about what really goes on behind the scenes!) but it may also get her socialising and mixing with the right kind of people. I joined a local air taxi company when I was 18 and fresh out of school, and it taught me a lot especially concerning interpersonal skills.
In the meantime, perhaps contact CRM Aviation in White Waltham. The husband is an ex-airline pilot and runs/owns the school, but his wife does interview preparation courses. All of the feedback I heard from their students is very positive. Airline interviews are extremely rare to come by, and she may find herself unable to re-apply again for a certain amount of time (depends on the airlines internal rules) - don't let her waste another chance!
In the meantime, perhaps contact CRM Aviation in White Waltham. The husband is an ex-airline pilot and runs/owns the school, but his wife does interview preparation courses. All of the feedback I heard from their students is very positive. Airline interviews are extremely rare to come by, and she may find herself unable to re-apply again for a certain amount of time (depends on the airlines internal rules) - don't let her waste another chance!
Last edited by FZRA; 28th Sep 2019 at 08:06.
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All of us have had problems at one time or another. What matters is what you did to overcome them. Most pilots don't really care who is sitting next to them just so long as they can get Long with them (exceptions should be made for some very precious people though). Also, it is impossible to get on with everybody in life and you can't expect everybody to give you a glowing reference. The bits of paper she carries make her as eligible as the next candidate.
So the questions are, how old is your daughter and how well does she handle herself with other people? If she is young, maturity will help. If she is a little shy, maybe she should get a job where she is in front of difficult people - until she joins an airline. There are also various courses that will help you develop yourself.
Overall though, the most difficult thing is getting your first job. The toughest hurdles to cross are normally thise raised by the miserable scrotters in Human Remains. I'm convinced these departments would function better if there no employees and no recruitement. That aside, she will get her first job, and afer a few years she will see how the world of aviation works and then she will be ready for her next step; whatever that is.
I wish her the best of luck,
PM
So the questions are, how old is your daughter and how well does she handle herself with other people? If she is young, maturity will help. If she is a little shy, maybe she should get a job where she is in front of difficult people - until she joins an airline. There are also various courses that will help you develop yourself.
Overall though, the most difficult thing is getting your first job. The toughest hurdles to cross are normally thise raised by the miserable scrotters in Human Remains. I'm convinced these departments would function better if there no employees and no recruitement. That aside, she will get her first job, and afer a few years she will see how the world of aviation works and then she will be ready for her next step; whatever that is.
I wish her the best of luck,
PM
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Dear All
Thank you for your comments. The strange thing is she is great with other people. Her time at Tesco's was a massive eye opener. Have you met the general public up close, in a supermarket
. Really unreal, its another world.
I will follow up on your suggestions.
Thank you.
Thank you for your comments. The strange thing is she is great with other people. Her time at Tesco's was a massive eye opener. Have you met the general public up close, in a supermarket
. Really unreal, its another world.I will follow up on your suggestions.
Thank you.
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I can only recommend interaction with someone who is well versed in dealing with interviews. Coaching is needed on a one on one basis in order to perfect her interview style. This need not be an aviation professional, merely someone who's speak is motivational. There has to be some form of explanation as to why she struggled with the ground school if so asked. Your daughter needs to provide a draft of all potential interview questions and be prepared to be put through mock interviews. I am sure that you could help with this scenario? This should be taken seriously as it will equip her with a skill set to deal with any question posed at interview. Always respond with positivity. As said above the interview is the place to overturn any negatives and always put a positive spin on any question that is thrown at you. If your daughter displays undesirable non technical skills (you say that she is shy) this will not be received well at interview. It could be seen as telling that she has already had a couple of interviews without success, in reality this is something to be concerned about considering the big financial and personal commitment invested already. Every pilot from cadet to captain must prepare in detail when going for a job. We have a saying in aviation that Prior Preparation Prevents P*ss Poor Performance.
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I think you should be extremely pleased that she has been invited for a few interviews. I know many graduates who have never had an interview with an operator and gave up trying after the cost of renewing their IR's became prohibitive. I also know several particularly weak candidates who have secured jobs with decent outfits - there is an awful lot of luck in getting that first job!
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No one cares about the results in groundschool as long as you've passed.
However, if she is coming across as being shy, under-confident in an interview then that's a huge problem. The big worry would be about a F/O not speaking up when it's appropriate to do so, because they don't have self confidence. It's no good either during her type rating and line training.
On the flip side over confidence is a massive problem too.
However, if she is coming across as being shy, under-confident in an interview then that's a huge problem. The big worry would be about a F/O not speaking up when it's appropriate to do so, because they don't have self confidence. It's no good either during her type rating and line training.
On the flip side over confidence is a massive problem too.
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With a legion of unemployed commercial pilots looking for a job, ground school scores are indeed one filter now for getting the opportunity for an interview on a first assignment. Just simple, if you get more then a thousand applications for one vacancy, you do an "unfair" reduction at the first step and that is easily done by using scores and marks.
How long is she in search mode, only 4 month? Right now I hear of and meet pilots searching for up to years, so nothing to worry about for now. Drive taxi, do instructors jobs, give going to african bush piloting a chance, look for regional airlines, search worldwide or just walk into HR offices every day.
How long is she in search mode, only 4 month? Right now I hear of and meet pilots searching for up to years, so nothing to worry about for now. Drive taxi, do instructors jobs, give going to african bush piloting a chance, look for regional airlines, search worldwide or just walk into HR offices every day.
