Any flexibility re expired ATPL exams
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Any flexibility re expired ATPL exams
I have almost finished my CPL , with about 6 hours to complete. I have finished and passed IR ,
My ATPL exams expire on 1 July . I thought I had enough time but as the weather has been unkind it doesnt look like I,ll finish in time .
After passing the ATPL I went to US and did FAA ppl and IR , due to family problems I returned to UK , got a job , saved up every penny in order to continue in UK , so for the last few months I,ve been flying in the morning , and working in the afternoon and evening to pay my way , now it looks like all that hard work will be for nothing , does anyone know if the CAA are a wee bit flexible if its a matter of a few hours ?
My ATPL exams expire on 1 July . I thought I had enough time but as the weather has been unkind it doesnt look like I,ll finish in time .
After passing the ATPL I went to US and did FAA ppl and IR , due to family problems I returned to UK , got a job , saved up every penny in order to continue in UK , so for the last few months I,ve been flying in the morning , and working in the afternoon and evening to pay my way , now it looks like all that hard work will be for nothing , does anyone know if the CAA are a wee bit flexible if its a matter of a few hours ?
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In a word, no. It's not the CAA that are the problem, it's EASA, and they use the words "operational necessity" for extensions. When did you take the last exam?
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Hi , it was July 1st 2013, I mistakenly was following the old CAA ruling that says 36 months after the end of the month inwhich the exam was taken , so I thought I had another 6 weeks , would " operational necessity " include the awful weather we,ve had in the last couple of weeks ? I would have easily finished it otherwise , I know I,m clutching at straws, getting desperate !
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Not really - all this was explained at the last CTKI meeting so I know what the answer will be. Operational necessity means an aircraft is on the ground for lack of a bum on a seat. However, no harm in asking....... It's the IR that has a validity of 3 years, the rest should be 7 years if memory serves, but Alzheimer''s is setting in, or is it lack of beer? 
Ok, 2 beers later (needed to read JAR FCL, I can assure you). Subpart J refers:
(a) A pass in the theoretical knowledge
examinations given in accordance with JAR–FCL
1.490 will be accepted for the grant of the
CPL(A) or IR(A) during the 36 months from the
date of gaining a Pass in all the required
examination papers.
(b) Provided that an IR(A) is obtained in
accordance with (a) above, a pass in the
ATPL(A) theoretical knowledge examination will
remain valid for a period of 7 years from the last
validity date of the IR(A) entered in the CPL(A)
for the issuance of an ATPL(A).
As you have your IR, you have plenty of time yet, as I see it.
Ok, 2 beers later (needed to read JAR FCL, I can assure you). Subpart J refers:
(a) A pass in the theoretical knowledge
examinations given in accordance with JAR–FCL
1.490 will be accepted for the grant of the
CPL(A) or IR(A) during the 36 months from the
date of gaining a Pass in all the required
examination papers.
(b) Provided that an IR(A) is obtained in
accordance with (a) above, a pass in the
ATPL(A) theoretical knowledge examination will
remain valid for a period of 7 years from the last
validity date of the IR(A) entered in the CPL(A)
for the issuance of an ATPL(A).
As you have your IR, you have plenty of time yet, as I see it.
Last edited by paco; 14th Jun 2016 at 15:54.
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You can have an IR on a PPL, so if he has one of those that might be workable.
The first paragraph says CPL or IR, although i appreciate it says "entered into the CPL" in the second paragraph.
I've worked around worse situations.
The first paragraph says CPL or IR, although i appreciate it says "entered into the CPL" in the second paragraph.
I've worked around worse situations.
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Not really - all this was explained at the last CTKI meeting so I know what the answer will be. Operational necessity means an aircraft is on the ground for lack of a bum on a seat. However, no harm in asking....... It's the IR that has a validity of 3 years, the rest should be 7 years if memory serves, but Alzheimer''s is setting in, or is it lack of beer?
Ok, 2 beers later (needed to read JAR FCL, I can assure you). Subpart J refers:
(a) A pass in the theoretical knowledge
examinations given in accordance with JAR–FCL
1.490 will be accepted for the grant of the
CPL(A) or IR(A) during the 36 months from the
date of gaining a Pass in all the required
examination papers.
(b) Provided that an IR(A) is obtained in
accordance with (a) above, a pass in the
ATPL(A) theoretical knowledge examination will
remain valid for a period of 7 years from the last
validity date of the IR(A) entered in the CPL(A)
for the issuance of an ATPL(A).
As you have your IR, you have plenty of time yet, as I see it.
Ok, 2 beers later (needed to read JAR FCL, I can assure you). Subpart J refers:
(a) A pass in the theoretical knowledge
examinations given in accordance with JAR–FCL
1.490 will be accepted for the grant of the
CPL(A) or IR(A) during the 36 months from the
date of gaining a Pass in all the required
examination papers.
(b) Provided that an IR(A) is obtained in
accordance with (a) above, a pass in the
ATPL(A) theoretical knowledge examination will
remain valid for a period of 7 years from the last
validity date of the IR(A) entered in the CPL(A)
for the issuance of an ATPL(A).
As you have your IR, you have plenty of time yet, as I see it.
Its gutting because I,ve been working as a hospital porter saving every penny and flying and training at the same time , no social life at all , all because of about 6 flying hours !
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Paco,
FCL.025 reads
(c) Validity period
(1) The successful completion of the theoretical knowledge examinations will be valid:
(i) for the issue of a light aircraft pilot licence, a private pilot licence, a sailplane pilot licence or a balloon pilot licence, for a period of 24 months;
(ii) for the issue of a commercial pilot licence, instrument rating (IR) or en route instrument rating (EIR), for a period of 36 months;
(iii) the periods in (i) and (ii) shall be counted from the day when the pilot successfully completes the theoretical knowledge examination, in accordance with (b)(2).
(2) The completion of the airline transport pilot licence (ATPL) theoretical knowledge examinations will remain valid for the issue of an ATPL for a period of 7 years from the last validity date of:
(i) an IR entered in the licence; or
(ii) in the case of helicopters, a helicopter’s type rating entered in that licence.
So although he could get his IR issued on a PPL, the theoretical exams for his CPL will have run out so he would have to redo the exams to get a CPL.
FCL.025 reads
(c) Validity period
(1) The successful completion of the theoretical knowledge examinations will be valid:
(i) for the issue of a light aircraft pilot licence, a private pilot licence, a sailplane pilot licence or a balloon pilot licence, for a period of 24 months;
(ii) for the issue of a commercial pilot licence, instrument rating (IR) or en route instrument rating (EIR), for a period of 36 months;
(iii) the periods in (i) and (ii) shall be counted from the day when the pilot successfully completes the theoretical knowledge examination, in accordance with (b)(2).
(2) The completion of the airline transport pilot licence (ATPL) theoretical knowledge examinations will remain valid for the issue of an ATPL for a period of 7 years from the last validity date of:
(i) an IR entered in the licence; or
(ii) in the case of helicopters, a helicopter’s type rating entered in that licence.
So although he could get his IR issued on a PPL, the theoretical exams for his CPL will have run out so he would have to redo the exams to get a CPL.
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I figured if he took his exams that long ago he would come under the old JAR FCL rules as above - they are woolly enough to be able to squeeze through but if the new rules are used, it won't work.
but 2) is woolly as well - paragraph i) doesn't say what licence.
but 2) is woolly as well - paragraph i) doesn't say what licence.
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Paco,
Trying not to be too pedantic!
1. JAR FCL was replaced by PART FCL in the UK in September 2012.
If Dally83's TK credits are running out in the next few weeks, he did the exams in June 2013 or July 2013, i.e. after PART FCL had been implemented.
So JAR FCL does not apply.
2. You need a CPL to get an ATPL issued:
FCL.510.A ATPL(A) — Prerequisites, experience and crediting (a) Prerequisites. Applicants for an ATPL(A) shall hold:
(1) an MPL; or
(2) a CPL(A) and a multi-engine IR for aeroplanes.
Therefore, the licence referred to in '2' must be a CPL.
Trying not to be too pedantic!
1. JAR FCL was replaced by PART FCL in the UK in September 2012.
If Dally83's TK credits are running out in the next few weeks, he did the exams in June 2013 or July 2013, i.e. after PART FCL had been implemented.
So JAR FCL does not apply.
2. You need a CPL to get an ATPL issued:
FCL.510.A ATPL(A) — Prerequisites, experience and crediting (a) Prerequisites. Applicants for an ATPL(A) shall hold:
(1) an MPL; or
(2) a CPL(A) and a multi-engine IR for aeroplanes.
Therefore, the licence referred to in '2' must be a CPL.
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I understand all this , my main question is what flexibility is there re extensions ? I do believe I have mitigating circumstances , ( not just the weather) rather personal reasons which meant I was unable to complete within the 36 months , so who would I contact ? I,ve written off to my MP and MEP to the CAA , would I be able to contact the EASA directly ?
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Regrettably, you will have to start from scratch.
I have come across several cases of people asking for exemptions, including, quite honestly, life threatening illness and family bereavement, all of which have been refused.
I personally had a close call when the weather was too bad for the IR skill test on the last day of the exams' validity. The CAA staff examiner called up the CAA (admittedly pre-EASA) and managed to get an extension of one day but still had to argue the toss (quite firmly) that we could not be held responsible for the weather and that it would be dangerous to fly.
EASA will simply say it's down to the national aviation authority, i.e. the CAA, and the CAA will simply say that it is down to the EASA regulations that they have to apply....(unless it suits their purpose to claim a national deviation. The goalposts at Gatwick are actually on roller skates, they get moved around that often).
You can send off letters and even file an appeal but I honestly feel you would be wasting your time and that you would be better off saving yourself a great deal of stress and biting the bullet.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
I have come across several cases of people asking for exemptions, including, quite honestly, life threatening illness and family bereavement, all of which have been refused.
I personally had a close call when the weather was too bad for the IR skill test on the last day of the exams' validity. The CAA staff examiner called up the CAA (admittedly pre-EASA) and managed to get an extension of one day but still had to argue the toss (quite firmly) that we could not be held responsible for the weather and that it would be dangerous to fly.
EASA will simply say it's down to the national aviation authority, i.e. the CAA, and the CAA will simply say that it is down to the EASA regulations that they have to apply....(unless it suits their purpose to claim a national deviation. The goalposts at Gatwick are actually on roller skates, they get moved around that often).
You can send off letters and even file an appeal but I honestly feel you would be wasting your time and that you would be better off saving yourself a great deal of stress and biting the bullet.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
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Yes thats how its looking at the moment , Ive witten off to CAA but I,m not expecting any outcome , as you said I,ll just get passed on to EASA , its a bloody bitter pill to swallow !
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Felt it through my own experience. I had my PPL theory expiring this year in February. Since November and up to late spring there was never a full day VMC. So I was told by inatructors that skill test is not going to happen before expiration date. I was recommended by flight school to send a letter to CAA. Did that, but got negative response. And here I am, 2 subjects left to go. Agreed with the school, that will do home studies, and just do final tests before allowed to go to CAA. So I wouldn't count much on CAA flexibility. Better start reading books to make it quick a second time. And if You feel comfortable with Your knowledge, look for a place where they won't ask You to go through all the course over again.
Good luck and don't give up!
Good luck and don't give up!
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I just received a very quick response from CAA .The European laws supercede UK laws and even if the CAA grant an extension using the "operational " reasons which are the only way to get an extension ,the EASA have the power to negate it.So the CAA sre basically powerless in this matter .It looks like it was easier pre Sept 2012. I have to weigh my options now unless by some miracle the weather clears up in time .Thanks for the support guys.
