Training/Resourcing Organisation or Go it Alone?
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Join Date: Oct 2015
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Training/Resourcing Organisation or Go it Alone?
I am in the process of mulling over the best path to becoming a commercial pilot – whether to apply to one of the large training organisations such as CTC, or whether to do my PPL and the subsequent courses step by step at a local school. I am after views, both from experience and others that may be in the same boat.
The main benefit I can see with a company such as CTC are the Airline Partnerships. Downside is the premium you have to pay. What are the opportunities like out there at the moment for pilots who complete the CPL/ MEIR/ MCC/ JOC courses off their own back?
The main benefit I can see with a company such as CTC are the Airline Partnerships. Downside is the premium you have to pay. What are the opportunities like out there at the moment for pilots who complete the CPL/ MEIR/ MCC/ JOC courses off their own back?
Join Date: May 2006
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Keeflyer, the big schools can charge 'insane' prices, but they're not insane if they result in you flying a big jet. After a few years the insane cost will seem like pocket change, especially once you've made command. Risking a bucket full of cash on gaining a license with nothing to show at the end.......... Now that is insane! If you're going along that route then spend as little as possible, and expect to pay for a type rating as well. Good luck!
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to the above:
Your post seems incredibly short minded.
- Even cadets from those insanely prices schools will pay for their type rating. They will also pay the same inflated price for their TR (as in 30k £ + for EZY? for a flexi contract?)
- CTC/CAE/whatever students are not guaranteed a job at the end
- Some are forced to take very ****ty deals (Check linkedin and look at some Volotea crew, some of them did CTC .. and then check PPJN.com for rough salary predictions ..) just hoping to get some hours going
- You are very unlikely to earn as much as today's pilots are, just as they are earning less than their predecessors. It will never just be pocket change. Airlines are waiting for the old pilots, with their legacy contracts, to retire. You will not make those figures in your lifetime. Terms and conditions for new contracts have been reflecting this for over a decade. Even Ryanair is reducing their hourly rate pretty much yearly, At the moment it is 20€ an hour less for FO than it was just 5 years ago, and their type rating cost has increased as well. Also, the tax loopholes across the EU are being closed so even less earning potential.
- At those high salaries you will be taxed appropriately.
- The first years of professional flying, assuming you did get a job, you will have to scrape by just because of your obscene mortgage.
- Chances are your debt will increase substantially by the time you can start making payments
- I know people that started training with 125 000€ loans (KLM Flight Academy if you care), that had 180k € in debt by the time they got their license 2 years later, that are still unemployed another 2 years later (at least, no flying jobs) and so far spent everything they earned just paying of their interest. Yes, just the interest payments, not even touching their debt.
- Another guy I know did CTC, is 100 000£ in debt, and is making about a 1000£ a month as a flight instructor. He is literally losing money every day, hoping for his chance in the end.
Do you really want to be 35 and still paying of a massive training debt? It might pay out in the end for some, but chances are it will not for a many.
Please, please take off your rose tinted glasses and have a critical look at this industry before advise young, impressionable people to just spend 2x or 3x the market value for their training. Be critical, think ahead, and know that there will always be people ready to take your money as long as you're willing to fork it over!
This is an amazing industry to be a part of and I am convinced it is a satisfying and worthwhile career, but so many young pilots seem to have a more passion than common sense!
Your post seems incredibly short minded.
- Even cadets from those insanely prices schools will pay for their type rating. They will also pay the same inflated price for their TR (as in 30k £ + for EZY? for a flexi contract?)
- CTC/CAE/whatever students are not guaranteed a job at the end
- Some are forced to take very ****ty deals (Check linkedin and look at some Volotea crew, some of them did CTC .. and then check PPJN.com for rough salary predictions ..) just hoping to get some hours going
- You are very unlikely to earn as much as today's pilots are, just as they are earning less than their predecessors. It will never just be pocket change. Airlines are waiting for the old pilots, with their legacy contracts, to retire. You will not make those figures in your lifetime. Terms and conditions for new contracts have been reflecting this for over a decade. Even Ryanair is reducing their hourly rate pretty much yearly, At the moment it is 20€ an hour less for FO than it was just 5 years ago, and their type rating cost has increased as well. Also, the tax loopholes across the EU are being closed so even less earning potential.
- At those high salaries you will be taxed appropriately.
- The first years of professional flying, assuming you did get a job, you will have to scrape by just because of your obscene mortgage.
- Chances are your debt will increase substantially by the time you can start making payments
- I know people that started training with 125 000€ loans (KLM Flight Academy if you care), that had 180k € in debt by the time they got their license 2 years later, that are still unemployed another 2 years later (at least, no flying jobs) and so far spent everything they earned just paying of their interest. Yes, just the interest payments, not even touching their debt.
- Another guy I know did CTC, is 100 000£ in debt, and is making about a 1000£ a month as a flight instructor. He is literally losing money every day, hoping for his chance in the end.
Do you really want to be 35 and still paying of a massive training debt? It might pay out in the end for some, but chances are it will not for a many.
Please, please take off your rose tinted glasses and have a critical look at this industry before advise young, impressionable people to just spend 2x or 3x the market value for their training. Be critical, think ahead, and know that there will always be people ready to take your money as long as you're willing to fork it over!
This is an amazing industry to be a part of and I am convinced it is a satisfying and worthwhile career, but so many young pilots seem to have a more passion than common sense!
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Gents, I look at this from a 'if I were starting out all over again' perspective, which thankfully I am not! If I were then I would be looking at one of the big schools with a job guarantee (ie. MPL). Fail that I would go the cheapest training around and spend (risk) the minimum possible. I totally agree with you about the big schools and their 'airline partners' sales pitch. Some get lucky and never look back, unfortunately many are left with huge debts with not much to show. That's why I say MPL, it's the closest you can get to a secure future. Best of luck either way.
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There is nosense nowadays going integrated! Firstly, for the huge debt you end, and secondly because as anything in life there is nothing to do things by yourself! There are a very good modular schools (like PAT and BGS) and, at least for me, if the biggest recruited of low hours pilots (Ry...) say that they haven't been able to find any difference in both training paths the decision is made! Moreover, if you are young (me 22 finishing my degree with a PPL) u have plenty of time to explore another kind of aviation (get FI enjoy flying, etc)! If you have the passion, a good sense of humor, u are positive and have patience one day you will be there, and you will be so proud what you have done!
Be modular: be an aviator, not just a First Officer!
Lots of best!
Be modular: be an aviator, not just a First Officer!
Lots of best!
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EC DKN - Integrated is not necessarily more expensive than modular any more. Flyby in Spain offer a course for 58,000 euro and they are not the only ones. If you go modular you'll also have to 'hours build' which can be a bit of a hassle.
