Professional Pilot Training (includes ground studies)A forum for those on the steep path to that coveted professional licence. Whether studying for the written exams, training for the flight tests or building experience here's where you can hang out.
For those of you who believe that a career in Aviation will be the answer to all of your problems, believe me when I say it is only the very begining.
It always seems to me that the "Wannabies" here, only hear what they want to hear.
Seriously read some of the stuff from the folks who have been there and done that, the whole misconception of "Its better then a normal job" or "It beats working for a living" Just sounds so absurd that its almost laughable and mocks the industry.
It is a normal job, it is working for a living, (bloody hard work at times)
And no, there are no particularly good perks, your job is not secure, there is only a limit on how far you can go. having and keeping a family and settling down is very very difficult.
There are way to many people who have sat at airports too long with there radios and played too many flightsim games, who have no real concept of how things are in reality.
Its not normal to fork out such obscene amounts of money to get qualified with no job prospects at the end, in fact its just down right dumb!
If I was to come on here and just sing the praises of the industry and tell you how great it is people would reply saying "Excellent,
thats great, your an inspiration"
But because I am not people will choose to ignore it!
I'm not a regular Ppruner and this will be my first post. I was browsing the thread up to page 4 and every post seemed to be about how great this industry *seems* and how boring IT and everything else is in comparison. I disagree and felt I needed to verbalise it when I stumbled upon autosync's reply on page 5 which I reckon is spot-on, but here we go nonetheless.
I was fortunate to get a sponsorship 3 years ago and have been flying professionaly in the UK for over a year now. I enjoy the job overall but feel that by and large wannabe's paint a picture that is far prettier than reality. The job has its moments which I won't go into because it's been done to death elsewhere on the thread. Unfortunately, like IT and everything else, it holds its share of downsides: the jetlag, unconventional work patterns, crap rosters, moody captains, delays, loneliness on nightstops, strain on the family/marriage, poor job stability in some cases, ... I know from experience that it's easy to say at a job interview or when applying with a flight school "I can deal with it all because flying's always been a dream for me". Take a step back and think of how you will feel a few years down the line when the novelty factor wears off. In my airline, whenever a sector gets cancelled and the crew gets to go home early, invariably everyone is pleased with that. My point is at the end of the day it's just a job!
I think it's a sad state of affairs when wannabes are willing to jeopardise their careers/families/houses/savings for a shot at a job with no guarantees whatsoever at the end of the tunnel. I find it even more appalling that airlines (no names need be mentioned) prey on this attitude and charge tens of thousands of pounds for type ratings and the possibility of a job. I find that flying schools by and large are equallly guitly of misleading propective self-sponsored students with flashy marketing campaigns and false claims as to job prospects.
Like I said, I'm glad I went into it because I was sponsored and because I reckon the good just about offsets the bad. Given the state of the industry, my two cents though to anyone who loves flying or the idea of it is to go into a technical field where the economy is truly desperate for specialists (do your own research...) and to then spend your excess cash on gliding and/or VFR flying at your local airport. They will encompass everything that is exciting about professional flying with none of the hassle. On one hand this is just the opinion of one person but on the other hand this person's been there (office job, gliding, VFR flying, airline flying) and the experience might be beneficial to someone contemplating their choices.
Last edited by Get_real : 2nd December 2003 at 01:18.
I think PPRuNe is full to the brim of negative aspects of being a pilot. Lots of whinging going on about how terrible the job is and how the pay is crap (have a look at the thread "is the job of jet airline pilot still desirable")
Constant referrals to how fatigued pilots our, how being a pilot means you can't have a family and so it goes on.
Fully agree Mooney12, there's far too much whinging and moaning that I keep reading. Fair enough, some guys are just trying to say that its not all rosy, which no job ever is, but if all the others are gonna do is say how awful and be so negative about it, then why don't they leave and let us boys have a go!
I don't like this term Wannabe. I may want to become an airline pilot some day but I worked hard to get my PPL, as we all did. That my friends, qualifies me as PILOT IN COMMAND of my aircraft even if it is only a C152. So this wannabe term and all its implications makes us sound like some kind of wishing loosers and that ain't right my friends!
Just my opinion
KB
I like you don't particularly like the term wannabe and prefer to call myself a Gonnabe.
Please don't think this as arrogance but more along the lines of a positive attitude towards my flight training.
However, after today's ATPL Performance exam maybe wannabe is more realistic. It was nails!! I've never known so many people left in the exam room when time was called.
Perhaps having worked elsewhere for a number of years offsets the downside of being a pilot.
I've been through sewage plants, IC manufacturing, customer service and marketing during the 12 years that I've been flying privately. None of these jobs pays enough to let me fly as much as I'd like, and I doubt that any of you guys would like the sewage plant stuff - that really is a shitty job to say the least.
So, for what it's worth, I think the pilot job is going to do me just fine for a while. It may not be the only great job there is but it's close enough for me to grasp. I'd trade my previous jobs with any pilot any day!
Probably true that its not a great job. But what job is?
I bet you loved it at the beginning? Most people do love their jobs to start with but 20 years down the line would you still love it?
I bet porn stars even get fed up with their jobs. Same view every day, overnight stops, crappy hours, terrible t's and c's (there's a joke in there somewhere).
Just making a point.
Anyway climb out of your cock pit and come and work with the public or in an office for a few years or on a porn set, and I bet you'll be clambering to get back behind the joy stick!!!!!
I've just come out of IT and I can assure you, 12 years of working in that industry is enough to put anyone off!! Look at the end of the day, everyone is right. It is just a job. The only thing is, if you like doing it, then surely the job is better than any other.
I have worked antisocial hours (on-call 24-7 for a global company) getting dragged out at 3am in the morning, being overworked etc. I am under no illusions. I'm also engaged to a girl who does shifts. Our lives are ALREADY all over the place!!!
I've been working the last 4 years to start my ATPL training, and started it last september. It's the best move I have EVER made in my entire life. I can't tell you how happy I am.
So please, don't suggest for a minute that I decided to "Give it all up" on a whim or because some marketing man gave me rose tinted spectacles.
So the job prospects are difficult at the end. Would someone please like to tell me what is NOT difficult about changing careers and effectively presenting yourself to an industry as a new business??
Life happens only once, make the most of it, that's what I say. If I get to the top and hate it, well bugger it I think I'll just go retire.
No doubt this has been discussed here, but I think you are either a pilot or a wannabe. This includes people like me who flys various gliders and a Jodel for fun in the mountains of Scotland (more fun than letting down in Heathrow- try landing a taildragger at Glenforsa). I just think the forum is too introspective. As has been said elsewhere - If it aint fun dont do it!
I'm doing my job properly when it's boring. I try to make the most interesting thing the selection of crew meals (a tip here chaps, let the Cabin Crew choose first - many brownie points!). But that doesn't meant to say I don't enjoy my job! I enjoy visual approaches, hand flying, spot landing, as fast as possible sectors, etc... and to be honest, the view is not bad either.
After reading all these all i can say is how bloody english!..i probebly agree its hard work boring at times but id enjoy doing it,what i do now is repetative ,but people say they would love to be able to do what i do, and the pays not too bad,but like anything if you do it too much it gets boring.so stop quoting the obvious and give some positive feed back ,if it was that bad why are you still doing it,theres plenty of average payed IT jobs around or even sainsburys,because if i hated the job as much as you lot crow about,no matter what the pay i'd rather work for tesco....
Dancing with the devil, going with the flow... it's all a game to me.
Join Date: May 2000
Location: England
Posts: 1,578
Look guys, these employed pilots are just giving you their opinion because they hope that someone will take notice and learn from their experiences. Learning from the past is a key theme within aviation and wannabes, gonnabes and starry-eyed school kids can ignore that at their peril. It starts from the very begining.
Regardless of whether the job is enjoyable 20 years down the line one thing is certain: it's bloody difficult to get a job once you become qualified and the longer you are without becoming employed the more unattractive you become.
In hindsight I would rather have spent the money I borrowed to become a pilot on getting a foot on the property ladder or perhaps financing the music project I was organising before I got the aviation bug...... alas, you don't know unless you do these things but ignoring what those in the job say about it is sheer lunacy so take note and don't knock them for being honest. They are doing you a favour so be grateful.
Think carefully is the salient point here. Pilots can be quite rebellious characters so it's understandable that wannabes look the other way when faced with information they would rather not hear. That same determination and stubborness is the part of our personalities which gets the ambition fulfilled at the end of the day but just be aware of its negative aspect.
Personally, I'd say it's probably easier to become a rock star or porn star and the training would be a damn site more enjoyable!
I am currently spending the money and sweating the blood in order to get that coveted license.
Maybe I am wearing those rose tinted specs but I cannot wait to finally get into the left hand seat and get paid for it!! I do realise that life will not be perfect after getting into the job and I realise that just like in any other industry in the world there are going to be good and bad days.
I am sure there will be days when I will be asking myself what the f*% I am doing in this job/ company/ aeroplane. There will also be days when the work is too much or the boss needs a good kick up the backside or I swear to never ever fly again if I can just get safely back to earth.
In short it will be a normal job.
I've been in the fortunate situation of working in the Caribbean teaching people to scuba dive ( yes, it is as much fun as it sounds) and even that had its good days as well as bad days. On a bad day at least I was diving, and on a good day I was diving! I moved away from Paradise in order to realise my dreams and don't know if I'll ever be able to go back, but I know I couldn't be happy if I didn't chase my dreams.
I think what I am trying to say in my rambling roundabout way is that any job will have its good and bad points, it's up to you what you are going to make of it. Don't be afraid to GO FOR IT!!
I know of quite a few people thinking of changing from scuba to aviation, anyone contemplating a career change in the opposite direction?
I came into this as green as ever about a year ago with dreams of flying the A340 or 747.....
.....now, after a year and a long hard look at myself, my future wife and what having someone in your life means.......
......give me a job flying locally where i get to be up there amongst the big ones, but still able to go home at the end of day and have dinner with those I love. If I can achieve that, I really will have it all!
Just read your post. My mate Lord Fontleroy is the recruitment officer for Yourojet ( dya like the pun). He was only saying to me yesterday that there is a serious shortage for low hour pilots. After seeing your post I contacted him to get some info.
He said that because of the shortage just pop in and you can learn as you go. If you can "drive good" as you say you can you'll pick it up in no time. Be sure to bring some hot cross buns for the captains and if you have a white shirt that would be great. If not Michael Guineys are selling real nice ones for a fiver!
In relation to holidays we were wondering where would you like to take them, because we own all our planes you can take one at weekends if you schedule it early. Be sure to get the company fuel card though, Sharon has that at reception.
We copied the Emirates package with regards to pay and benefits. If you have a word with Mick he'll pay you in cash so you can sign on the welfare aswell. Tell Rita in scheduling you can't work Thursday before you start if you wanna do that though.
If you want I can get the ball rolling regarding your interview. Myself and Fontleroy usually head down to The Nags Head on Fridays for about 6pm. Say if you pop in after 9 but before 12 because he'll be binned then and he gets rowdy with a few in him. Again white shirt very important and if you really wanna impress him make sure he pulls a fitter bird than you. He's real competitive like that.
Right well i'm off on holidays now, hope that was informative and ill tell Fontleroy to expect you.
I once saw a documentary on Discovery about pilots that fly private planes out of the factory to their new owners, in this case it was Pipers being flown to Europe. I thought to myself wow, now that's a dream job if you got no ties (wife, kids, mortgage etc).
I've read a lot of posts here from airline pilots who sound, well, not so positive. I would like to share this:
My perspective of a great job is one where you do what you do because, in it's essence, it fulfills you. Why for instance do people want to be schoolteachers? Nurses? Not because the pay is so great, not because of the hours, not because employees are treated so well by management... it's because a teacher helps children become the best they can be, it's because a nurse takes care of the sick.
It's true that it takes more than just that, there's bills to pay and a family to clothe and feed, but think about this: if you honestly forgot why you chose to do what you do, then imho it's time to start looking for something else.
This thread has indeed had many negative comments to make on professional airline flying and I'm sure they are based on experience. On the other hand I for one look forward to my first airline job despite all these comments, presuming I find one
I have spent the last 4 years working on oil industry boats in a professional capacity. This involved 12 hour shifts, 7 days per week for up to 9 weeks, more if you're willing. This could be at 2 hours notice. It was a tax free job that required a university degree to enter and paid very very well. It was however completely soul destroying after 4 weeks at sea with no end in sight. Also I can assure you management scre**** you is not singularly a problem in aviation!
My point basically is that there are better ways to make money, but if flying is what you want to do then go for it. Don't let yourself forget how much better off you are than very many others. You did chose this career after all.
It was nails!! 
I've never known so many people left in the exam room when time was called.
Linear Mode
