ATPL theory credit valid?
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ATPL theory credit valid?
Hey mates,
I'm based in western Europe, and i have the following issue.
I recently finished my ATPL integrated course.
It took me 4 years to finish the course successfully.
I did the ATPL theory within the required 18 moths period however was not able to commence with my flight hours on a daily or weekly basis and take the finally flight exam within the required 3 years course time. This was due to bad weather condition and that no flight instructor was ready the take the risk to do flight in bad weather conditions (No ILS at Airport). The flight instructors were not even willing or ready to do their best to get me through the course.
The national authority for aviation in my country says that I have to retake the ATPL Theory which I ,for my part, I cannot get my head around ? why?
They argue that I have to finish the whole procedure of becoming a pilot within 3 years meaning that between the first day of visiting my aviation school and the last day must not exceed 3 years, so far so good.
But I called up the CAA in Great Britain and they said it does not really matter how long it the aviation course takes. They added too that the 3 years period between the ATPL Theory and CPI & IP ME start from the day when I have got my final ATPL Exam results. So now I'm totally confused and don´t know what is right and what is wrong. Due to the fact that I´m a lawyer in know that EU Law prevails national law so in all EU Member States should apply equal and for most fair conditions. So how comes that two european counties have two approaches. I´m seeking for answers through this forum.
I would appreciate if someone could give me some information or even share its similar experiences.
An answer asap would be great.
Due to some misunderstandings here are some background facts:
ATPL Intergrated Course / Program:
- March 2011 start of course / program
- August 2013 passed all ATPL Theory Exam 12 exams
- March 2015 CPL IR ME check ride / flight and passed
Which kind of license will be issued ?
I'm based in western Europe, and i have the following issue.
I recently finished my ATPL integrated course.
It took me 4 years to finish the course successfully.
I did the ATPL theory within the required 18 moths period however was not able to commence with my flight hours on a daily or weekly basis and take the finally flight exam within the required 3 years course time. This was due to bad weather condition and that no flight instructor was ready the take the risk to do flight in bad weather conditions (No ILS at Airport). The flight instructors were not even willing or ready to do their best to get me through the course.
The national authority for aviation in my country says that I have to retake the ATPL Theory which I ,for my part, I cannot get my head around ? why?
They argue that I have to finish the whole procedure of becoming a pilot within 3 years meaning that between the first day of visiting my aviation school and the last day must not exceed 3 years, so far so good.
But I called up the CAA in Great Britain and they said it does not really matter how long it the aviation course takes. They added too that the 3 years period between the ATPL Theory and CPI & IP ME start from the day when I have got my final ATPL Exam results. So now I'm totally confused and don´t know what is right and what is wrong. Due to the fact that I´m a lawyer in know that EU Law prevails national law so in all EU Member States should apply equal and for most fair conditions. So how comes that two european counties have two approaches. I´m seeking for answers through this forum.
I would appreciate if someone could give me some information or even share its similar experiences.
An answer asap would be great.
Due to some misunderstandings here are some background facts:
ATPL Intergrated Course / Program:
- March 2011 start of course / program
- August 2013 passed all ATPL Theory Exam 12 exams
- March 2015 CPL IR ME check ride / flight and passed
Which kind of license will be issued ?
Last edited by Askania90; 22nd Jul 2015 at 18:44.
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As a future professional pilot this should be well within your capabilities to research and understand the regulation - this is a basic skill of any pilot. Also given the large amount of money you have no doubt parted with, this is really part of your due individual due diligence to understand.
Without giving you the answer directly however.
The Competent Authority (as you call it National Aviation Authority) that you should be talking to is that which holds your medical records. It does not matter if you live in Spain but have a British medical - the state of licence issue is the one you need to talk to. So first of all speak to them only.
This is because although Part FCL and the AMC to Part FCL has the regulations, CAs are allowed to issue Alternative means of Compliance (AltMoC) which may only be applicable to the licences/medicals they issue.
Then you have the complexity that you may be training at an ATO regulated by a different CA. That ATO must comply with their Operations and Training manuals, which may include national AltMoCs. If their training manual says that you have a maximum of 3 years to complete the course and you didn't then you are stuck regardless.
Appendix 3 of Part FCL Section A covers ATPL integrated courses. Section B covers CPL integrated course.
The AMC to Part FCL has requirements for Section A and B including
FCL.025 c) 1) ii) does state the ATPLs theory exams are only valid for 36 months for the issue of a CPL or IR.
So given the above it seems fairly obvious you have to do the ATPL exams again. It is irrelevant to ask why, because that is the law, and there are limits set to try and catch a global spectrum - not on a one on one basis. If laws were one on one - my speed limit whilst driving would be 100mph
In terms of what your flight instructors were and were not allowed to do weather wise - it will have all been in your Operations Manual - a document you should have be intimately familiar with during all your flying. If you were completing VFR training their reasons sound legitimate.
Without giving you the answer directly however.
The Competent Authority (as you call it National Aviation Authority) that you should be talking to is that which holds your medical records. It does not matter if you live in Spain but have a British medical - the state of licence issue is the one you need to talk to. So first of all speak to them only.
This is because although Part FCL and the AMC to Part FCL has the regulations, CAs are allowed to issue Alternative means of Compliance (AltMoC) which may only be applicable to the licences/medicals they issue.
Then you have the complexity that you may be training at an ATO regulated by a different CA. That ATO must comply with their Operations and Training manuals, which may include national AltMoCs. If their training manual says that you have a maximum of 3 years to complete the course and you didn't then you are stuck regardless.
Appendix 3 of Part FCL Section A covers ATPL integrated courses. Section B covers CPL integrated course.
The AMC to Part FCL has requirements for Section A and B including
The ATP integrated course should last between 12 and 36 months. This period may be extended where additional flying training or ground instruction is provided by the ATO.
So given the above it seems fairly obvious you have to do the ATPL exams again. It is irrelevant to ask why, because that is the law, and there are limits set to try and catch a global spectrum - not on a one on one basis. If laws were one on one - my speed limit whilst driving would be 100mph
In terms of what your flight instructors were and were not allowed to do weather wise - it will have all been in your Operations Manual - a document you should have be intimately familiar with during all your flying. If you were completing VFR training their reasons sound legitimate.
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Ok guys i ask the question again?
ATPL Intergrated Course / Program:
- March 2011 was start of course / program
- August 2013 passed all ATPL Theory Exam 12 exams
- March 2015 CPL IR ME check ride / flight and passed
Which kind of license will be issued ?
CPL/IR ME with ATPL theory credit or without?
ATPL Intergrated Course / Program:
- March 2011 was start of course / program
- August 2013 passed all ATPL Theory Exam 12 exams
- March 2015 CPL IR ME check ride / flight and passed
Which kind of license will be issued ?
CPL/IR ME with ATPL theory credit or without?
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Its 36 month since the last exam you took, so if you passed everything on august 2013 you still have 1 year to go from now, they can Issue a CPL ME IR with ATPL Theory, I think.
But I didnt understand the point of who and why told you you have to repeat, 36 month havent passed yet.
I may be wrong.
Hope it helps
But I didnt understand the point of who and why told you you have to repeat, 36 month havent passed yet.
I may be wrong.
Hope it helps
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I think Big Grecian did actually answer your question.
According to your first post, the Competent Authority that holds your records is not satisfied that you completed the integrated course in time and say that in addition you must resit the ATPL exams. On that basis right now no licence will be issued. If your exam passes are not valid ..... no licence.
As far as rules go, though, I think the UK CAA are correct. If you look at the reference in Part FCL that Big Grecian gave you you will see that exams are quite clearly valid for 36 months from the date of the last exam pass. I can see how the Competent Authority might insist that the integrated course be completed in three years, I can not see (i) why they do not extend the period as they are allowed to do (although they clearly don't have to) or (ii) how making you retake the ATPL exams which you have already passed and appear to be still valid is in any way going to rectify you going over the three year period for an integrated course.
Big Grecian is correct, you need to be talking to the Authority that had oversight of your training, I would politely ask them the questions in (i) and (ii) above.
PS I am not sure whether the Authority are actually suggesting your ATPL exams are invalid, I don't think so. If they are, if the exams were not valid in March 2015 you should not have been able to take the CPL IR skills tests.
According to your first post, the Competent Authority that holds your records is not satisfied that you completed the integrated course in time and say that in addition you must resit the ATPL exams. On that basis right now no licence will be issued. If your exam passes are not valid ..... no licence.
As far as rules go, though, I think the UK CAA are correct. If you look at the reference in Part FCL that Big Grecian gave you you will see that exams are quite clearly valid for 36 months from the date of the last exam pass. I can see how the Competent Authority might insist that the integrated course be completed in three years, I can not see (i) why they do not extend the period as they are allowed to do (although they clearly don't have to) or (ii) how making you retake the ATPL exams which you have already passed and appear to be still valid is in any way going to rectify you going over the three year period for an integrated course.
Big Grecian is correct, you need to be talking to the Authority that had oversight of your training, I would politely ask them the questions in (i) and (ii) above.
PS I am not sure whether the Authority are actually suggesting your ATPL exams are invalid, I don't think so. If they are, if the exams were not valid in March 2015 you should not have been able to take the CPL IR skills tests.
