PPL hours Towards IR Training

[al_renko]

Hi All,
Please can someone advise me with regards to hours flown during and post PPL. I have logged so far a total of 140 hours but only 12 are solo,would any of this time count towards Instrument (Rating) training for instance?

[MrAverage]

??


So you did the bare minimum 10 hours solo whilst training plus a 2 hour test (P1u/s) and you've done no P1 at all since?

[ChickenHouse]

I don't understand - how can you do 140h, almost all PUT? or is it rather 140h PAX?

[BigGrecian]

I think you might have bigger problems if your PPL took 140 hours, which might require you to examine your suitability for further training.

[Aeromar27]

They don't have to be solo to be PIC. The key is that for an IR you need 50 hours PIC cross country. I would bet you're all set.

Count the hours you did after your PPL was issued. Talk to your flightschool. You're entitled to log those hours as PIC. You are a licensed private pilot and the fact that they didn't let you fly more solo, is not a matter of legality, but rather airplane ownership. If you weren't ready to command an SEP-L, then you wouldn't have a PPL.

But here's the thing you'll need to clarify. The requirement says those 50 hours have to be cross country. The regulations aren't precise about whether a cross country flight requires to have different departure and destination aerodromes. Some parts of the regulations refer to them as any flight more than 3nm away from the departure AD. Some other regulations refer to them as any flight from a point of departure to a point of arrival using standard navigation techniques, without saying if departure and arrival must be two different places. People doing hour blocks usually plan flights with some full stops in between departure and arrival from and to home-base... I've asked about this a million times, and nobody's ever given me a definitive answer.

[BigGrecian]

Count the hours you did after your PPL was issued. Talk to your flightschool. You're entitled to log those hours as PIC. You are a licensed private pilot and the fact that they didn't let you fly more solo, is not a matter of legality, but rather airplane ownership. If you weren't ready to command an SEP-L, then you wouldn't have a PPL

The must rubbish advice I've ever seen on Pprune!

It has absolutely everything to do with who was the PIC and nothing as you describe.

If another pilot was onboard flying as PIC or you were receiving instructor your were not the PIC - they are single pilot aircraft which means only one pilot in command.

There are many pilot's who, unfortunately, just because they hold a PPL doesn't mean they are current and skilled enough to be PIC and a check out is normally required. If you don't pass that you won't normally allowed to be pilot in command of that aircraft and more dual will be required.

You can never log PIC on the basis "because I hold a PPL"

It's a simple question who was acting as Pilot in Command?

[Aeromar27]

First of all, your first response was a tad hostile. Second of all, he did say that he logged 140h during and after his PPL course. Does it make you feel better to tell him that after 140h flying, he should reconsider if he's "worthy" of flight training?

If you are doing training, for example, Night VFR or refreshing for a rating renewal, then you're not acting as PIC. If, after you obtain your PPL and your rating is current, if you buy an hour block but your flightschool still prefers you to fly with a representative, you still paid for the hour, you're not receiving training, it's your hour, you're PIC. Having a more experienced pilot on-board, FI or not, giving you advice, doesn't mean you're receiving flight instruction.

If the flightschool is explicitely forcing you to not act as a PIC even though you have your licence and the authority has determined you're capable, then something's wrong with that flightschool, as they're obviously trying to get you to buy more time once if you realize you're not flying to meet the requirements of future training.

[BillieBob]

Some parts of the regulations refer to them as any flight more than 3nm away from the departure AD. Some other regulations refer to them as any flight from a point of departure to a point of arrival using standard navigation techniques, without saying if departure and arrival must be two different places.

WRONG! No part of any regulation refers to 3nm from the departure aerodrome in relation to a cross-country flight for licensing purposes. This is a popular misconception resulting from taking a small part of the UK ANO (relating to a non-EASA qualification) entirely out of context.

The definition of a cross-country flight is, simply, "a flight between a point of departure and a point of arrival following a pre-planned route, using standard navigation procedures" (FCL.010). Nothing in that definition requires the point of departure to be different from the point of arrival, or for the flight to cover a particular distance or to last for a particular time or, come to that, that the pilot wears a particular colour of underwear! Why do people continue to insist on making the requirements more complicated than they already are?

Since none of us knows how much of the 140 hours referred to in the OP's post was PIC (as opposed to solo) might it not be better to obtain the facts before taking up the usual entrenched positions?

[Mach Jump]

...might it not be better to obtain the facts before taking up the usual entrenched positions?

I think you forgot where you were for a moment there BB!

[ChickenHouse]

Would the OP please be so kind to clarify which IR he/she is referring to? I do not remember the cross country definition with regards to Part.FCL, but do have a column "FAA X-Country hours" since I had the pain to document this for the US IR - 50 hours x-country, where by definition x-country means flights from airport A to airport B with full stop landing and straight line distance between A and B a minimum of 50 nauticals or more. It took me quite some hours to dig out my logbooks and calculate direct distances between airports flown to. I had to guess some times still, as I had some touch&gos in there - which do not count, so I had to estimate time spent in traffic circuit for that (and it was disappointing that my most frequent coffee flight destination was 49nm from home field, so all these flights did not qualify for FAA X-Country).

[OhNoCB]

if you buy an hour block but your flightschool still prefers you to fly with a representative, you still paid for the hour, you're not receiving training, it's your hour, you're PIC

You need to be very careful about this. I have known places in the past that do flight training and allow renting but only with an instructor on board for insurance purposes. In this case the instructor was required because the insurance required xxxx h total time, in which case, regardless of who paid for the hour, either you were not PIC or you flew as PIC in contradiction with the insurance requirements. The PIC MUST BE DETERMINED PRIOR TO FLIGHT. This is so important when you have a PPL/CPL/ATPL flying with a FI friend/club member/someone who wants to come for a jolly.

[Aeromar27]

That's why I said initially "Talk to your flightschool". Often, when you take the modular route, you are the one who should look after yourself. You need to make clear that the purpose of an hour block isn't just fun, but to build the Total Time and PIC Cross Country time required for the next training module.