EASA ATPL Theory needs reform?!
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: The frozen north....
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How I enjoyed learning about that mainstay of modern approach aids, the Microwave Landing System!
TIMU below is 100% correct, rote learning the likes of what year such and such convention was ratified in what country for Air Law is bloomin pointless and takes up time you could be paying more attention to things that might save your life one day.
I passed my ATPLS with an avg of 90% (was one of the first bunch to sit JAR exams) but only got 76% for Air Law and that still felt like 1% too much study time I'd wasted!
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I just finished my ATPL Theory in June and let me tell you what a joke that whole thing is.
Not only that, what strikes me is the inefficient way the regulations are.
Where are you supposed to find the information needed.
In the US we have the FARs and the AIM. We live by that.
Here in Europe it is a huge mess. Difficult to find and what not.
Not only that, what strikes me is the inefficient way the regulations are.
Where are you supposed to find the information needed.
In the US we have the FARs and the AIM. We live by that.
Here in Europe it is a huge mess. Difficult to find and what not.
Join Date: Jan 2012
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JAR TO EASA... where is ATPL (H) frozen?
Hello pilots! I hope on this thread i get some help.
I got my licence in 2010. With was a CPL(h) + IR(h), so, and according to the law at the time, JAA FCL, i got that my CPL(H)+IR(H) was also an ATPL(h) frozen, or, like the way written in the FCL 2.050 (B)(11) ...
"
(11) The holder of a CPL(H) and IR(H)
gained under previous amendments of JARFCL 2 up to and including Amendment 3 is
credited with the theoretical knowledge
requirements for ATPL(H) and IR(H).
"
Now its EASA time... and it looks like i have no credits for ATPL(H).
Right now i have IR(ME), 504TT with 300 in ME Helis.
In my authority, some people are lost with this, some dont now what to do, others say to make a lot ox exams (again)... i feel that i am being stolen away with this...
Was i the only one?
I got my licence in 2010. With was a CPL(h) + IR(h), so, and according to the law at the time, JAA FCL, i got that my CPL(H)+IR(H) was also an ATPL(h) frozen, or, like the way written in the FCL 2.050 (B)(11) ...
"
(11) The holder of a CPL(H) and IR(H)
gained under previous amendments of JARFCL 2 up to and including Amendment 3 is
credited with the theoretical knowledge
requirements for ATPL(H) and IR(H).
"
Now its EASA time... and it looks like i have no credits for ATPL(H).
Right now i have IR(ME), 504TT with 300 in ME Helis.
In my authority, some people are lost with this, some dont now what to do, others say to make a lot ox exams (again)... i feel that i am being stolen away with this...
Was i the only one?
Join Date: Nov 2000
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No, you are not. In Ireland, they accept the old combination, but in the UK "it has not been ratified" or similar phrase. looks like it's 12 exams......
You will be exempt POF and VFR comms
You will be exempt POF and VFR comms
Join Date: Jan 2012
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So, the atpl(h)teoric credit from JAA does not transits to EASA. Even thow some country do it, like Ireland.
I know that in Spain the pilots have to do 18 exams... again.
I have sent an email to my authority stating this:
Article 4
Existing national pilots’ licences
1. JAR-compliant licences issued or recognised by a Member
State before 8 April 2012 shall be deemed to have been issued
in accordance with this Regulation. Member States shall replace
these licences with licences complying with the format laid
down in Part-ARA by 8 April 2017 at the latest.
In the hope they can transit to EASA my theoretical credits for ATPL(h).
I know that in Spain the pilots have to do 18 exams... again.
I have sent an email to my authority stating this:
Article 4
Existing national pilots’ licences
1. JAR-compliant licences issued or recognised by a Member
State before 8 April 2012 shall be deemed to have been issued
in accordance with this Regulation. Member States shall replace
these licences with licences complying with the format laid
down in Part-ARA by 8 April 2017 at the latest.
In the hope they can transit to EASA my theoretical credits for ATPL(h).
Join Date: Nov 2000
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If it's any help:
However, in JAR Amendment 6 (10) "the holder of a CPL(H) gained under previous amendments of JAR-FCL 2 up to and including Amendment 3 is credited with the theoretical knowledge requirements for ATPL(H)." It is our opinion that, if you have a CPL(H) issued under JAR FCL Amendment 3, that is the equivalent of the ATPL(H)(VFR) in terms of theoretical knowledge - paragraph 2.050(b)(10) refers. This credit was carried over into Part FCL. In addition, Article 4(1) of Commission Regulation (EU) 1178/2011 refers to JAR compliant licences being deemed to be Part FCL licences. The legal definition of "JAR Compliant" licence is in Article 2, which refers to licences, ratings, certificates, authorisations and other qualifications issued or recognised by a State, reflecting "JAR and procedures". We interpret this to include ATPL(H) TK credit.
Since the introduction of the ATPL(H)(VFR), the IR(H) and the ATPL(H) theory have their own validity period from the day the exams are successfully completed - 36 months for the CPL(H) and IR(H) and 7 years from the last validity of an IR entered in the licence, or a helicopter type rating (for helicopters).
However, in JAR Amendment 6 (10) "the holder of a CPL(H) gained under previous amendments of JAR-FCL 2 up to and including Amendment 3 is credited with the theoretical knowledge requirements for ATPL(H)." It is our opinion that, if you have a CPL(H) issued under JAR FCL Amendment 3, that is the equivalent of the ATPL(H)(VFR) in terms of theoretical knowledge - paragraph 2.050(b)(10) refers. This credit was carried over into Part FCL. In addition, Article 4(1) of Commission Regulation (EU) 1178/2011 refers to JAR compliant licences being deemed to be Part FCL licences. The legal definition of "JAR Compliant" licence is in Article 2, which refers to licences, ratings, certificates, authorisations and other qualifications issued or recognised by a State, reflecting "JAR and procedures". We interpret this to include ATPL(H) TK credit.
Since the introduction of the ATPL(H)(VFR), the IR(H) and the ATPL(H) theory have their own validity period from the day the exams are successfully completed - 36 months for the CPL(H) and IR(H) and 7 years from the last validity of an IR entered in the licence, or a helicopter type rating (for helicopters).
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I completely agree with all the above. The JAR ATPL exam system, when I did it a while back, did not prepare me well for my IR training or for my airline career. So much time wasted on pointless stuff and more time in IR detail briefings covering stuff that should have been included in the ATPL theory.
There was far to much reliance on memory, and practising of feedback questions, and not much testing of problem solving ability or on understanding of the concepts. It does sound like at least in the US, some of this is covered in the oral exam before a skills test but when I did mine, it was not the case in the UK.
It's a bit like the "Lift theories" thread elsewhere on PPRune. We were taught stuff in order to pass the test. It didn't matter if it was right or wrong and I remember many an instructor getting quite defensive if I asked a question that was even slightly deeper than those on the syllabus. This is all in stark contrast to my time in uni where debates and questioning were encouraged and that proper understanding was expected and tested for.
I cannot criticise the ground school organisation for the job they did in getting me through the exams. They did what was necessary and were very good at it. It's the system that's at fault and this ground school had an excellent strategy for getting the results I needed.
Now, remind me the titles and numbers of those 18 annexes. I'm gonna need that info for tomorrows duty...
There was far to much reliance on memory, and practising of feedback questions, and not much testing of problem solving ability or on understanding of the concepts. It does sound like at least in the US, some of this is covered in the oral exam before a skills test but when I did mine, it was not the case in the UK.
It's a bit like the "Lift theories" thread elsewhere on PPRune. We were taught stuff in order to pass the test. It didn't matter if it was right or wrong and I remember many an instructor getting quite defensive if I asked a question that was even slightly deeper than those on the syllabus. This is all in stark contrast to my time in uni where debates and questioning were encouraged and that proper understanding was expected and tested for.
I cannot criticise the ground school organisation for the job they did in getting me through the exams. They did what was necessary and were very good at it. It's the system that's at fault and this ground school had an excellent strategy for getting the results I needed.
Now, remind me the titles and numbers of those 18 annexes. I'm gonna need that info for tomorrows duty...
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Hello paco, i agree with all that!!
But this part
"
Since the introduction of the ATPL(H)(VFR), the IR(H) and the ATPL(H) theory have their own validity period from the day the exams are successfully completed - 36 months for the CPL(H) and IR(H) and 7 years from the last validity of an IR entered in the licence, or a helicopter type rating (for helicopters).
"
which is in
JAR–FCL 2.495 Acceptance period
says that who got their ATPL credits via a CPL(h) exam will only get those credits valid for 36 months regardless of the rest.
I have done the tipical CPL(H) + IR(H) exams in 2008 and 2009 and the license in 2009, and got my first IR(ME) in less than 36 months,
So the credits are valid only for 36 months.
Since i didnt get ATPL(H) due to lack of flight hours in those 36 months, my ATPL(H) credits are gone.
Is this the real understanding of this? And may be this the reason for some countries not giving the credits??
Thank you for the help!
But this part
"
Since the introduction of the ATPL(H)(VFR), the IR(H) and the ATPL(H) theory have their own validity period from the day the exams are successfully completed - 36 months for the CPL(H) and IR(H) and 7 years from the last validity of an IR entered in the licence, or a helicopter type rating (for helicopters).
"
which is in
JAR–FCL 2.495 Acceptance period
says that who got their ATPL credits via a CPL(h) exam will only get those credits valid for 36 months regardless of the rest.
I have done the tipical CPL(H) + IR(H) exams in 2008 and 2009 and the license in 2009, and got my first IR(ME) in less than 36 months,
So the credits are valid only for 36 months.
Since i didnt get ATPL(H) due to lack of flight hours in those 36 months, my ATPL(H) credits are gone.
Is this the real understanding of this? And may be this the reason for some countries not giving the credits??
Thank you for the help!
Join Date: Nov 2000
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The first bit was from the IAA and the second from the CAA. It's the IR exams that expire after 36 months, not the full ATP ones. We think you should be able to just refresh with the usual 4.
