Funding ideas after BBVA reject your application.
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Funding ideas after BBVA reject your application.
After supplying every single bit of financial documentation to BBVA and them then taking 3 months to come back to me to inform me I have been unsuccessful in my application to secure the funding for the CTC Wings course starting in September.
The specifics of the loan won't be shared on here for obvious reasons but myself and my family do not understand why this application has been rejected.
The loan to value of the loan= 14% of the property value that it is being secured against. This property has no mortgage against it. I also have a property that does have a mortgage and some equity with this property too.
The savings of myself and my parents more than adequately cover any potential periods of time where I may not be earning.
I'm 35 and a career changer (& before the questioning of my decision begins yes it is what I want to do, yes I am aware of the risks, yes I have considered the possibility of failure), with a professional qualification behind me - so if there was a period of time after successfully completing the course and where I was sat in a hold pool, I could obtain a short term contract doing what I am currently doing to tie me over until I'm offered a place with an airline.
So BBVA knew all of the above, all insurances are in place, class 1 medical issued, can somebody help me understand why the application was rejected?
Do you really need access to a million quid before they lend to anybody? Who do they lend to?
In addition, if I do not secure the finances in time for September, does anybody know how long CTC will keep my place open for.
Finally, apart from robbing a bank, does anybody know if there are any other financial institutions willing to lend me the money?
Comments/ sarcasm/ wit all great fully received.
Cheers
The specifics of the loan won't be shared on here for obvious reasons but myself and my family do not understand why this application has been rejected.
The loan to value of the loan= 14% of the property value that it is being secured against. This property has no mortgage against it. I also have a property that does have a mortgage and some equity with this property too.
The savings of myself and my parents more than adequately cover any potential periods of time where I may not be earning.
I'm 35 and a career changer (& before the questioning of my decision begins yes it is what I want to do, yes I am aware of the risks, yes I have considered the possibility of failure), with a professional qualification behind me - so if there was a period of time after successfully completing the course and where I was sat in a hold pool, I could obtain a short term contract doing what I am currently doing to tie me over until I'm offered a place with an airline.
So BBVA knew all of the above, all insurances are in place, class 1 medical issued, can somebody help me understand why the application was rejected?
Do you really need access to a million quid before they lend to anybody? Who do they lend to?
In addition, if I do not secure the finances in time for September, does anybody know how long CTC will keep my place open for.
Finally, apart from robbing a bank, does anybody know if there are any other financial institutions willing to lend me the money?
Comments/ sarcasm/ wit all great fully received.
Cheers
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Having done their due diligence, they know the chances of you finding a paying position in an airline are slim, and it is not worth the aggravation of going after your (parents) property in the future.
Best of luck
Best of luck
I'd hope that at 35 years old it's his own property, but I agree about the rest.
The obvious answer is that if you have more than one property, and one of them doesn't have any mortgage on it, either remortgage, or sell one. Mortgages will certainly give you money much cheaper than other bank loans.
Or pay as you go and do it modular, at about a third the price of CTC.
The obvious answer is that if you have more than one property, and one of them doesn't have any mortgage on it, either remortgage, or sell one. Mortgages will certainly give you money much cheaper than other bank loans.
Or pay as you go and do it modular, at about a third the price of CTC.
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The risk managers in the company will have decided that they are to exposed.
Also as well not having a mortgage on the houses already I believe changes matters because another financial institution doesn't have control over the deeds.
You best bet would to mortgage the property for 40% for 10 years it will more than likely work out cheaper anyway.
Also as well not having a mortgage on the houses already I believe changes matters because another financial institution doesn't have control over the deeds.
You best bet would to mortgage the property for 40% for 10 years it will more than likely work out cheaper anyway.
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" that your chances of actually working your way up are close to zero these days"
Rubbish. I guy I instruct with just got an airline job and he has precisely 790 hours.
Rubbish. I guy I instruct with just got an airline job and he has precisely 790 hours.
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Modular here, spent 10 months instructing(part time), airline job at 450 hours and they subsidised my TR. The big schools may have the best contacts in the industry but going modular doesn't mean your going to end up on the heap in the same way that going integrated does not guarantee you a job. Believe me I met several ex integrated guys now dispatching or in the cabin. Not a pretty place to be when your loan payments are £1000 a month and everything's starting to lapse. Anyway there's hundreds of integrated v modular posts which I'm sure the OP has read thoroughly.
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Without knowing the specifics (and you are correct to withhold them from here) I'm not sure how anyone could possibly help you understand why the loan was rejected. Have you asked BBVA what the reason for the rejection is?
Define "huge mistake"? I've spoken to airline pilots well into their fifties who still love it and are still passionate about it. For them it certainly wasn't a "huge mistake". So, while it's true to suggest that for some people it will be a huge mistake, it's simply incorrect to categorically state that this is the case for everyone.
As I've made clear many, many times, I think that anyone who starts on this career path is making a huge mistake, and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone.
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the which direction he has chosen to take is dealt with elsewhere.
The loan rejection thing is quite interesting to me. MAinly because I don't have a mortgage either.
Shortly after paying it off and being dead chuffed I was told it wasn't a particularly sensible thing to do. I should have kept it going but with only 10 quid payments a month.
Also my tendency to not use credits cards would also be an issue.
Apparently half your credit rating is done on paying off debt regularly without missing payments. If you don't have any debt to pay you don't get for what of a better word "points" for being a good credit risk by always paying you repayments.
So someone with zero debt and zero repayments is seen as a higher risk due lack of history than someone who pays off their CC every month and has a mortgage repayment.
They also seem to think if you don't have a mortgage you don't need a large loan, if you do need a loan you can get capital against the house.
Again they don't like the house deeds in the owners hands if the loan is against the house capital as there is nothing stopping you selling it and not telling them.
The loan rejection thing is quite interesting to me. MAinly because I don't have a mortgage either.
Shortly after paying it off and being dead chuffed I was told it wasn't a particularly sensible thing to do. I should have kept it going but with only 10 quid payments a month.
Also my tendency to not use credits cards would also be an issue.
Apparently half your credit rating is done on paying off debt regularly without missing payments. If you don't have any debt to pay you don't get for what of a better word "points" for being a good credit risk by always paying you repayments.
So someone with zero debt and zero repayments is seen as a higher risk due lack of history than someone who pays off their CC every month and has a mortgage repayment.
They also seem to think if you don't have a mortgage you don't need a large loan, if you do need a loan you can get capital against the house.
Again they don't like the house deeds in the owners hands if the loan is against the house capital as there is nothing stopping you selling it and not telling them.
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john_smith
why do you always have to be the person who knows everything? You and I and all the guys know that what you say about not able to find a job if someone chooses to go modular is absolutely bs. Why do you think the cadet programs are full of 18-19 year olds?
I will tell you why, they go to New Zealand, or Arizona, they do their flying training and their skills tests. A flight examiner is assigned to them(who happens to be an instructor at their flight school) and passes them just to send them to the UK in time to be selected from the pool.
AJWOOD78
you want to be an airline pilot?, then find a way to secure a loan, otherwise go with the old traditional way like most of the guys did. You will end up paying less, have less support from your school, but if you have the guts, ability, money and most importantly patience, you will find you right hand seat job.
Do not, I repeat DO NOT listen to anyone who is trying to change your mind, the forums in this website are unfortunately a bad place to begin your research because most of the people here, do not have any idea, nor they have had a first hand experience with bank loans, integrated schools and etc.
Do you want a solid and above all true opinion? then go to the schools you are interested, find people who are already there, talk with them and examine all your possible options. Most of the people in PPRUNE have no idea, they just share with you what they have heard from others.
why do you always have to be the person who knows everything? You and I and all the guys know that what you say about not able to find a job if someone chooses to go modular is absolutely bs. Why do you think the cadet programs are full of 18-19 year olds?
I will tell you why, they go to New Zealand, or Arizona, they do their flying training and their skills tests. A flight examiner is assigned to them(who happens to be an instructor at their flight school) and passes them just to send them to the UK in time to be selected from the pool.
AJWOOD78
you want to be an airline pilot?, then find a way to secure a loan, otherwise go with the old traditional way like most of the guys did. You will end up paying less, have less support from your school, but if you have the guts, ability, money and most importantly patience, you will find you right hand seat job.
Do not, I repeat DO NOT listen to anyone who is trying to change your mind, the forums in this website are unfortunately a bad place to begin your research because most of the people here, do not have any idea, nor they have had a first hand experience with bank loans, integrated schools and etc.
Do you want a solid and above all true opinion? then go to the schools you are interested, find people who are already there, talk with them and examine all your possible options. Most of the people in PPRUNE have no idea, they just share with you what they have heard from others.
Last edited by gpiper; 26th Aug 2014 at 10:43. Reason: Spelling Errors
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If you want RHS A320, CTC is a good bet. Still a bet however.
It may be you have to remortgage your house(s) to release equity plus your savings. The problem with this method is that you're paying it off from day one, i.e. no 2 year gap.
It may be you have to remortgage your house(s) to release equity plus your savings. The problem with this method is that you're paying it off from day one, i.e. no 2 year gap.
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Funding ideas after BBVA reject your application.
Thanks for some of the useful comments. Thanks also for the expected negative comments.
For the record, I have thought about modular route long and hard. However there were a couple of reasons why I haven't gone down this avenue.
1) my current job sees me working many hours a day and I have done studying in the evenings previously and I know how hard it is to study after working around 12 hours a day. When I'm not working I'm also thinking about the following day and what will need to be done then. This is one if the chief reasons I want to go integrated rather than modular. Believe me the modular route is far more appealing on the ££££ front!
2) I know quite a few guys who are captains for various airlines and I know if a couple of people who have gone through both integrated and modular training and they all say the same thing: the airlines prefer to select from the integrated pool. Last thing I want to do is get my cpl multi engine ir and then save up for a type rating only to let the whole lot lapse due to the airline's preferences.
Wish I had rich parents, wish I could marry a wealthy widow, wish I even knew the telephone number to Ronny Biggs. But I don't. Just annoys me that your social place in the world dictates what you can do.
Steps off soap box.....
For the record, I have thought about modular route long and hard. However there were a couple of reasons why I haven't gone down this avenue.
1) my current job sees me working many hours a day and I have done studying in the evenings previously and I know how hard it is to study after working around 12 hours a day. When I'm not working I'm also thinking about the following day and what will need to be done then. This is one if the chief reasons I want to go integrated rather than modular. Believe me the modular route is far more appealing on the ££££ front!
2) I know quite a few guys who are captains for various airlines and I know if a couple of people who have gone through both integrated and modular training and they all say the same thing: the airlines prefer to select from the integrated pool. Last thing I want to do is get my cpl multi engine ir and then save up for a type rating only to let the whole lot lapse due to the airline's preferences.
Wish I had rich parents, wish I could marry a wealthy widow, wish I even knew the telephone number to Ronny Biggs. But I don't. Just annoys me that your social place in the world dictates what you can do.
Steps off soap box.....
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Actually John Smith I have to disagree with you.
In fact I bumped into another modular guy today who has just landed an airline job. He has less than 300 hours.
Maybe I live in a different part of the world to you but I see people moving into airlines with some regularity.
In fact I bumped into another modular guy today who has just landed an airline job. He has less than 300 hours.
Maybe I live in a different part of the world to you but I see people moving into airlines with some regularity.
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John_smith
If becoming an airline pilot, which to most of the wannabes here would be a dream come true, is such a huge mistake for you why not go and get a job doing something completely different? There are plenty of jobs to be had in offices, building sites, engineering or whatever you fancy that could offer you a much more sociable lifestyle, many of which would make a very good career.
If the dull task of being at the controls of a hugely complex and expensive machine (which happens to pay more than the average job) is such a mistake then why don't you do yourself a favour and re-train? Such a terrible career must be so depressing that to carry on would be ludicrous!
You moan about terms and conditions no end but I'd put money on you never having actually done any other job for any length of time. No doubt that T's & C's for professional pilots is on the decline but compared to the majority of other careers they are certainly not bad at all. For example when was the last time you had to go to work for free because the task you and your team have been working on is behind schedule through no fault of your own? I bet the answer to that is never as an airline pilot, and in fact I bet you'd have received a healthy day off working payment for carrying out a job that many would love to do!
Of course there's no problem giving advice to potential new pilots about how the industry is changing and that it perhaps isn't the job it once was but your posts aren't constructive at all and only serve to annoy people who really know what it's like to have
T's & C's!
Seriously though it's never too late to change career...I'm sure the highly satisfying job of a policeman or I.T engineer would give you a much more rewarding lifestyle with T"s & C's your ex colleagues would be the envy of
If becoming an airline pilot, which to most of the wannabes here would be a dream come true, is such a huge mistake for you why not go and get a job doing something completely different? There are plenty of jobs to be had in offices, building sites, engineering or whatever you fancy that could offer you a much more sociable lifestyle, many of which would make a very good career.
If the dull task of being at the controls of a hugely complex and expensive machine (which happens to pay more than the average job) is such a mistake then why don't you do yourself a favour and re-train? Such a terrible career must be so depressing that to carry on would be ludicrous!
You moan about terms and conditions no end but I'd put money on you never having actually done any other job for any length of time. No doubt that T's & C's for professional pilots is on the decline but compared to the majority of other careers they are certainly not bad at all. For example when was the last time you had to go to work for free because the task you and your team have been working on is behind schedule through no fault of your own? I bet the answer to that is never as an airline pilot, and in fact I bet you'd have received a healthy day off working payment for carrying out a job that many would love to do!
Of course there's no problem giving advice to potential new pilots about how the industry is changing and that it perhaps isn't the job it once was but your posts aren't constructive at all and only serve to annoy people who really know what it's like to have
T's & C's!Seriously though it's never too late to change career...I'm sure the highly satisfying job of a policeman or I.T engineer would give you a much more rewarding lifestyle with T"s & C's your ex colleagues would be the envy of
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AJWOOD78
You pointed out some points for modular training which are not 100% correct.
Modular training if you commit your self to be a full time student you will end up finishing your training earlier than any other integrated student, and this is because you get to choose your training providers along the way depending on your location preferences, money and etc. Therefore the fastest way is structured modular(where you follow your training as a full time student).
The second point which you mentioned about that airlines prefer integrated students is again correct, but, there is a but, these airlines are numbered, and most of them are in the UK. Another thing about these airlines is that the majority of them also accept modular student which in the long run it is a better choice to go modular, save money and be able to do a type rating because no one pays for your type rating any more.
The choice rests on your shoulders, no matter which path you choose, just stick to it and do not divert from your original path. Integrated training + type rating for me is not worth it, no one can guarantee you a job after you are done with your training, there are integrated students who are in a pool for 2 years, and still have to pay the bank loan, likewise there are modular students who are also 2 years in the pool waiting but the owe less money.
Your call
You pointed out some points for modular training which are not 100% correct.
Modular training if you commit your self to be a full time student you will end up finishing your training earlier than any other integrated student, and this is because you get to choose your training providers along the way depending on your location preferences, money and etc. Therefore the fastest way is structured modular(where you follow your training as a full time student).
The second point which you mentioned about that airlines prefer integrated students is again correct, but, there is a but, these airlines are numbered, and most of them are in the UK. Another thing about these airlines is that the majority of them also accept modular student which in the long run it is a better choice to go modular, save money and be able to do a type rating because no one pays for your type rating any more.
The choice rests on your shoulders, no matter which path you choose, just stick to it and do not divert from your original path. Integrated training + type rating for me is not worth it, no one can guarantee you a job after you are done with your training, there are integrated students who are in a pool for 2 years, and still have to pay the bank loan, likewise there are modular students who are also 2 years in the pool waiting but the owe less money.
Your call
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As you all know I am very pro modular.
Even in my eyes the wings course is different to the normal integrated courses.
Mainly because the people are not pay your money and do the course and get chucked out at the end with a Ryanair application form in your hand.
They do have a product post qualification which does seem to work as they go into automated flight decks.
If the OP can afford and is willing to pay for that, its his decision.
The guy is asking about loans, to be honest he would get more success in getting an answer in one of the other forums. As the people that do have experience in this matter don't come into wannabies very often.
Even in my eyes the wings course is different to the normal integrated courses.
Mainly because the people are not pay your money and do the course and get chucked out at the end with a Ryanair application form in your hand.
They do have a product post qualification which does seem to work as they go into automated flight decks.
If the OP can afford and is willing to pay for that, its his decision.
The guy is asking about loans, to be honest he would get more success in getting an answer in one of the other forums. As the people that do have experience in this matter don't come into wannabies very often.
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Of course you won't.
I suspect that you find the job deathly dull because you are deathly dull. Even the most boring job in the world can be livened up with a bit of personality.
Oh and on the subject of seniority. It doesn't hamstring "everyone" because not "everyone" has a seniority list.
Good luck at university. I think you will find being a student dull as well.
I suspect that you find the job deathly dull because you are deathly dull. Even the most boring job in the world can be livened up with a bit of personality.
Oh and on the subject of seniority. It doesn't hamstring "everyone" because not "everyone" has a seniority list.
Good luck at university. I think you will find being a student dull as well.
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john_smith; your post is revealing to say the least. How on earth would your parents, tutors, or course mates know whether you'd find flying a boring profession or not? And if they did all say that then what an incredibly unsupportive bunch indeed. Choosing a career is so subjective that there really is no one-rule-fits-all answer. I know people who are perfectly content with their rather mundane jobs paying the national minimum wage. Conversely, I know others who are professors in their fields or top professionals (some highly experienced airline pilots) who are equally content with their careers. People are different. Just because you made a bad choice for yourself does not mean that it would be a bad choice for someone else. And I can assure you, as someone who comes from an IT background there are many other jobs besides flying that will bore you to tears on a daily basis.
Perhaps. But if you went onto a medical forum as an airline pilot and suggested you planned to switch to a medical career then you might find many doctors telling you that you'd be mad as well.
It's instructive to view the thread 'Doctor or Pilot' currently running on Jetblast. Look at the number of pilots basically telling the OP that he'd have to be mad to give up medicine for aviation.
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It sounds like you're in the wrong job John_Smith.
For an apparently educated guy, you sound like an absolute wombat!
Your experiences and your life are unique to you, they do not apply to everyone else on the planet.
You can achieve any realistic goal if you set your mind to it and have a plan
For an apparently educated guy, you sound like an absolute wombat!
Your experiences and your life are unique to you, they do not apply to everyone else on the planet.
You can achieve any realistic goal if you set your mind to it and have a plan
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These threads are amazingly insightful. The previous post makes the most valid argument in this thread. I can see where everyone is coming from but what is good for one man isn't necessarily good for another and vice-versa.
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What I don't understand about people like John_Smith is that if anyone was bored while doing their initial (CPL/IR etc) training then they are/were extremely foolish to continue in pursuit of a flying job.
If someone said they found the initial training (ie. flying) fun but had become tired/bored of airline flying I wouldn't have any problem with that, everyone is different. But there are many other sectors one can go in to other than airline flying, and whilst it might not be easy to get into some of them, as an airline pilot you at least have some experience and knowledge and should hopefully have enough sense to make contacts to get you into another sector with a bit of patience.
If taking off, sitting in cruise for a few hours and landing is boring, why not try fire fighting, instructing, air ambulance, regional, private/bizjet etc.
Sure most probably won't pay as well as the top airline positions but you will can still earn decently above the average wage doing other things.
If someone said they found the initial training (ie. flying) fun but had become tired/bored of airline flying I wouldn't have any problem with that, everyone is different. But there are many other sectors one can go in to other than airline flying, and whilst it might not be easy to get into some of them, as an airline pilot you at least have some experience and knowledge and should hopefully have enough sense to make contacts to get you into another sector with a bit of patience.
If taking off, sitting in cruise for a few hours and landing is boring, why not try fire fighting, instructing, air ambulance, regional, private/bizjet etc.
Sure most probably won't pay as well as the top airline positions but you will can still earn decently above the average wage doing other things.
