Professional Pilot Training (includes ground studies)A forum for those on the steep path to that coveted professional licence. Whether studying for the written exams, training for the flight tests or building experience here's where you can hang out.
This might not be popular with employers but what the hell. You spend hours and hours writing letters and filling out online application forms, send them all of at no small cost only to get replies to about half of them.
Is it acceptable that these company's do not even have the common decency to acknowledge the receipt of your details?
Yes it disapointing, and last time i was applying it really got up my nose, but look at it from their point of view too.
Airlines (in the uk), receive 1000's of applications a year. To reply to alll of them would be a full time job - money that, particularly in te current climate (and i don't mean sunny spells and heavy showers), could be better spent elsewhere.
Before 9/11 my airline had around 1300 applications on file. Not sure but i guess this is after they have weeded out the ones that are unsuitable !
People seem to miss out a lot of the basic information, like age? availability? IR and medical current? CAA reference number... even contact details! And what the hell does 'available quite soon' suppose to mean!
Worst CV I ever saw was an email with five attachments... page 1 big jpeg face picture page 2 the letters 'CV' in font 48 page 3 the CV itself page 4 flying career timeline page 5 flying career summary (this is a 190hr graduate!) page 6 references
Having recently done a round of CV firing i met with a situation of many operators not bothering to respond (all relevant info was included). After a call to the British European recruitment department they confirmed that they have been so inundated that i wouldn't be getting a reply (oh well theres 26p i won't see again). I imagine all the same people are sending to all the same operators. I suppose the only chance of making sure your CV is on the top of the pile is to keep sending updates and hope you don't **** them off. As for people not including relevant information on there CV, that is quite incredible!!
Even though it was the worst CV you have ever seen, it had the desired effect, which was you remembered it. OK for the wrong reasons but who cares, not that i'm saying a cr@p CV is the way to get a job, far from it. I know it gives a bad impression but lets not forget he has had to do all the same ground examinations and flight tests to the same standards. So he's abit shabby when it comes to the use of microsoft word.
Being on the receiving end of your CV's, I hope the following will help!
As Expedite says, consider it from our point of view though. We would love to reply to every CV - fact - we're not a bunch of hard-nosed b*stards, it's worse when lots of effort has been put in, but the volumes of CV's that we're receiving is substantial. We receive upwards of 20 CV's a day at the moment (i.e. we're not Easyjet or Ryanair!) and most efficient airlines have reduced admin staff in order to cut costs and keep flying, as a result we can't afford half a day's work just replying. It's not the cost of envelopes and stamps that stops us replying, it's staff cost.
Contrary to popular belief we do read every CV though. So you can help yourselves by helping us, in the following way:
i) Keep your CV down to one page of A4. This applies to any application you do, aviation or not. I read page one and that's it.
ii) Bullet points on the top of the page with pertinent information. We're interested in licences, ratings, hours and previous employers. Your trek across the Andes is fascinating, but best left to the interview. We're looking for pilots, not Indiana Jones...
iii) E-mail is the best way of submitting it. This ensures it goes to the right person and isn't on paper which just fills up space on the desks and in the filing cabinets. Eventually we have to have a paperwork clearout... Most companies now have either website submission or a dedicated recruitment e-mail.
iv) Don't attach your Wets, First Aid, GSCE or Scouts/Guides Firelighting Certificates... It's superflous information for us and will, immediately, be treated in the same way as paper in iii) above. When you are applying for a position, the minimum standard is usually stated and then if you meet that we'll check your certificates later.
v) You can't beat contacts. This is mentioned time after time after time here. Get your face known, say hello to every pilot you meet - remember (and this may be a little controversial!) pilots love telling you about themselves and their flying. You all know that deep down!!
vi) We appreciate that you want to do a bit of cold-calling and ask about vacancies. For us, a smaller operator, this is fine. We can save you more time and effort if we have no vacancies planned. The majority of aviation companies know when our vacancies are likely to occur and plan our recruitment around them. Most companies will be able to tell you whether it's worth sending a CV in. One word of advice though, if you're going to phone up, know the basics about the company. I'm not going to make your task easy for you! If you phone up to check the Chief Pilot's name, at least find it out first - if you ask me I'm going to end the call quickly because you're not showing much initiative. If you're not going to make an effort, then neither are we.
I hope the above helps us all. We've all been in the same boat looking for jobs and I've still got my file of rejection letters from the start of my career. If the others had replied the file would've been about 50% larger - I know how it felt to not get a response, but having seen it from the other side of the fence I can appreciate why I didn't now.
Keep trying, you'll get there eventually. Like you say Flying Farmer when we need you management will suddenly find the staff to reply...
And, to the person who sent in a multimedia CV (it's the only one I've seen) well done, it made an impression - however I've not had chance to look at it yet...
Daifly, very good advice, I'm sure a lot of wannabes will make good use of it. What about cover letters? Absolute must but should be short and sweet? Is it worth embelishing a little to show off your knowledge of the company and that you bothered to do a bit of background work?
Thanks for the replys,spelt right second time( late night)
All points taken on board. My C.V runs to one side of A4 and a short consise covering letter is sent, so no problem there.
The point I'm trying to make is that some companys state that the reciept of the C.V will be acknowledged. Two or three of the larger companys haven't done this. All I want to know is that they have not gone astray in the post.
Last edited by Flying Farmer; 27th May 2002 at 06:29.
Since you do read allof the CVs; how would you react to finding a SAS(E)-card with perhaps 3 questions on it; date received, you do /do not meet our requirements, Your CV will be held on file for ___ months.
would you take the additional time to fill in the blanks?
Has any Wannabe, with initiative, ever tried this?
Phew! - thanks for the comments, I didn't realise that one day I'd actually post something useful!
Let's look at your questions then...
i) Covering Letters Spiral Dive. Yes, of course. A CV without one is like a phone call without the "hello". Short and sweet is good, as you're going to print the information again on the CV. But you can fit your licence and type rating details onto one line. I won't stop on your covering letter though, like I said, I always read page one!
ii) On that subject you can put something about the company in. It'll make me a bit more interested in your CV when I see you've made an effort. But read it, and get someone else to read it. Your comment about how you spent £XX,000 on your licence because "...the King Air was the only aircraft I ever wanted to fly..." will probably have the same effect on me as it just did on you when you read it! I.e. "Yeah, yeah, NEXT!"
iii) As WWW said, if we're not advertising then it is courteous for us to reply, but it is unsolicited mail after all (I know, harsh but fair) so it's not a black mark against us if we don't. If you want to confirm that it's been received feel free to put in an SAE or postcard in. I don't think many companies would be cruel (stupid!) enough to not just pop it into the post room. You can try and ask for some checkboxes to be filled, but know from my own application experience that it may not happen - you'll just get a blank card back.
iv) Your CAA Reference Number has no bearing on me! We'll get it from your licence, assuming you sent in a one page CV ;o)
Dai - Can you keep some of the more inane submissions you receive? I would like to see them published here (anonomised) in a long standing occassionally revived thread as an example of what NOT to send.
ps There are no Archives any more - everything is kept forever. What a big 'Puter we have these days...
OK - why only a SINGLE page CV...single page 2 sided(? he says hoepfully) or single sided?
OK..now ive been working for some 13 years in computers...now fATPL/FI(A) looking for that first role with the airlines...now my CV has the vital info on the front...contact details, availability, licences, ratings (rather a large section this it would appear!), hours, current flying schools (where im an instructor) and a history of my flight training...but this leaves me no room for other bits like personal details, my employment history - which shows at least some background in the airlines having worked on projects for BA...so do you *really* want me to ignore the second page...or should I just print it double-sided so only 1 bit of paper floats around?
Advice greatly appreciated - Ive spent weeks working on the CV and just spent a couple of days re-working it...Im now looking for the final polish before letting it venture out (again)...