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Old 6th Sep 2013, 12:22   #1 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Ireland
Age: 30
Posts: 74
Self fund type rating / 500 hour Line training is there a job

I would like to get opinions on people who have done this who has self funded a type rating and line training and then got a job at the end. Or has done such a scheme and was not offered employment at the end. I really want a list of places offering such schemes and then employment.

I am interested in completing a type rating and also 500 hours line training on either a B737 or an A320. I want to ask for a list of places doing this who guarantee a job at the end. I have been looking at some places that do guarantee a job. Im currently working as a flight instructor also building my experience.

Thanks for your help.
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Old 7th Sep 2013, 09:52   #2 (permalink)


Probationary PPRuNer
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
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I am also looking for a self sponsored type+500 line training program and
I didnt find any program with granted job at the end.
Eaglejet and BAA are offering this kind of programs but no info about employment after the LT.
Eagle Jet: send you a suggested TRTOs list to do the Type Rating. After that you must send your CV and license with the endorsement and wait for the LT call.
BAA: type rating in Vilnius+Line training with partner airline. This the cheaper option I have founded.

Any info about the partners airlines for Base Training and Line training in Eaglejet and Baltic Aviation Academy on the B737?
Thanks in advance
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Old 7th Sep 2013, 17:06   #3 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
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wire12..... have a look at aviationjobsearch etc, how many jobs for pilots with 800 hours total time with 500 hours A320/737 can you find?
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Old 8th Sep 2013, 08:08   #4 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
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Quote:
This the cheaper option I have founded
You mean found or funded or both?

Last edited by de facto; 8th Sep 2013 at 08:09.
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Old 11th Sep 2013, 20:46   #5 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: 37000 feet
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hi guys, you can get the type rating with the 500 hr linetraining at jettraining.net and the linetraining will be with one of the airlines that eaglejet has as their partner, and that is due to the fact that most line training go through eaglejet... but the line training will cost you approximately 39.000$
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Old 15th Sep 2013, 20:20   #6 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
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Does Simtech in Dublin not offer such a programme?
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Old 16th Sep 2013, 10:12   #7 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Europe
Posts: 24
Please guys, get this type rating + line training self funded training out of your heads! This might be the most stupid idea by airlines so far.. They are just taking advantage of young and desperate pilots. For the sake of a brighter future, don't buy yourself into success, it comes with a price...
I have a friend who bought 500 hours of line training on Germania (A320), he spent 6 months as a first officer, and he only flew 100 hours... Is that worth it? I don't think so. He didn't get a pay check, he had to pay for his accommodation, his food, his uniform. Those 39k or whatever they say you'll pay, it'll end up with at least 50k... I say, wait for a better opportunity, get a normal job until the chance for a job as a real first officer appears. Just a tip
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Old 16th Sep 2013, 11:10   #8 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Austria
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From the airlines viewpoint, it is a rather smart idea though. There is a largish pool of freshly trained CPL holders that mostly has no chance of landing a paid job - not due to a lack of ability on the CPL holders part, but due to a lack of vacant seats at the airlines. The reasons for this have been elaborated here again and again, so I will not go there now.

The CPL holders however see this situation after having forked out a substantial amount of money and realize their predicament with a bit of well-founded dismay. And now along comes an airline CEO on his constant quest to lower his operational costs and sees these pour souls. Does pity strike his heart? No, he sees his quest fulfilled. He offers the CPL holders a ray of hope - hurry, hurry, hurry, sign here, pay only some 10.000 units of whatever currency, get a rating and some hours. And thus he sells a TR, often at an agreeable profit, can keep an aircraft flying without paying a First Officer for several hours and has not only lowered his costs but even made a profit before having sold one single ticket.

And after both have fulfilled their contract - one has provided a TR and some hours of line training, the other one has paid another substantial amount - lo and behold, the pool of 200 hour CPL holders is still as full as before, so will the CEO keep his freshly trained TR holder and start to pay him a salary, or will he choose the cheaper option of letting him go and getting another fresh, but solvent, candidate to sell another TR?

So away goes the candidate, now with a TR and some more hours - only to find himself in the next pool of jobless candidates with equal qualifications to his and the amount of paid jobs offered still the same.

Gentlemen, avoid the above scenario and do not buy a TR without a job contract signed at the same time.
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Old 16th Sep 2013, 14:27   #9 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Ireland
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Tu.114

There are places that offer self funded TR and 500 line training with a job contract at the end. That is what I was asking for a list of places that offer these. I would not paid that money without a job contract in writing.
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Old 16th Sep 2013, 16:19   #10 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Austria
Posts: 532
Wire12,

let me repeat what I wrote in brief: Having decided to sell typeratings plus line training to aspirants, what would make any company keep its trainees while there still is profit to be had from other aspirants?

Nothing, thats what.

Many reputable airlines do require fresh joiners (that have passed the applicable selection beforehand!) to sign a bond of some kind in return for their type rating, such as "You will pay amount x for Your type rating, and we will refund You 1/y with some interest annually over the next y years". Does this match Your definition of self-sponsored type rating?
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Old 13th Jan 2016, 09:52   #11 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: belgium
Age: 37
Posts: 13
ok, a type rating with line training + 500h is a bad idea. We are looking for solutions. I've been resenting doing a type rating for years now.
With +2,500h on piston engines, it's not getting me very far.
I can keep wondering around in the small aviation with miserable pay and a bunch of young guys breathing down my neck.

If you guys shoot the idea of doing a type rating and I agree it isn't a good one. What other option would you suggest.

Or maybe there are people on this forum who can vouch for a TRTO they have worked with.

thanks
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Old 13th Jan 2016, 14:29   #12 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 205
An MCC certificate (and ideally a training report) plus advanced jet handling from a reputable training organisation is a good start.

That'll be somewhere between 5-8k maybe. But that gets you many more opportunities than just the CPL/IR.


Unless you went through an integrated course, ideally on a pre-selected airline scheme, or through CTC's modular or JOC course and got "introduced" to the airline by them, then you're unlikely to end up on a jet (and not paying paying for it) without some form of previous experience.
That usually means slogging it on a turboprop and earning your experience.
The integrated courses, and particularly CTC, have the monopoly on zero line experience jet jobs. The airlines like what they get (cheap, freshly minted and still-mouldable pilots paying for their type rating) and can get enough of them so they often don't go looking anywhere else except experienced (i.e. multi crew TT) direct entries.

Everyone these days wants and expects a jet job while they're still wet behind the ear. It doesn't work like that though and shouldn't. If you're a lawyer you don't become a partner straight out of law school, you have to earn the experience, show your worth. Same as a doctor, you have to get the experience, complete the on-the-job training before you become a consultant. Aviation is only different because there are some people rich enough or foolish enough to buy their way into the RHS and as a business the airline is not going to turn away free monies like that.


My advice, try the regional airlines, consider moving abroad, be prepared that you'll have to pay for your type rating regardless (either up front or by way of reduced salary) but DO NOT throw the best part of 50k at a type rating and line training with no guarantee at the end.

Or go to somewhere like CTC and do their MCC/JOC at a cost of about 9k and wait out in the hold pool until you get a job with EZY/RYR
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Old 18th Jan 2016, 19:44   #13 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Cloud Surfing
Posts: 22
NEVER, EVER, get a type rating without a job in hand.

Not only are you more than halving your chances of getting a job, you will also be paying 25k+ for the privilege to make it harder for yourselves.

keep pushing for your goals, look at EVERY avenue.

Just don't waste your money... and definitely dont bankrupt yourself.

Llama, has some points to consider but Integrated isn't the only way to a Jet job. I didn't go integrated and i got a jet job as my first flying job and that was 4 years ago, when times were harder. Things are improving. Get your MCC/JOC completed.

Last edited by Gpro; 18th Jan 2016 at 19:46. Reason: After reading LLama's post.
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Old 19th Jan 2016, 01:00   #14 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Land of Chinook
Age: 35
Posts: 440
I agree with the sentiment to not ever pay for a type rating. All it does is bring our profession to its knees as pilots are willing to be the proverbial prostitute for airline CEOs. Most of us would like to fly big metal one day, but I sure as hell am not going to give what little in savings I have to pay for it.

You forget: airlines still need pilots - two of them for the small stuff, up to four for the big ones. If none of us pay for a type rating, then the airline is forced to pay for all the training costs for all of us. Position competition then goes back the way it was and pilots are no longer in the excessive amount of debt that they currently are chasing type ratings like they're a badge.

Also...say you do an A320 type rating. Well, now you're no good to that B737 operator. In effect, all you've done is spent a lot of hard-earned money to limit your options, not improve them as you thought you would.

As long as even one pilot is willing to throw the rest of us under the bus, airline CEOs will continue to take advantage of us. Low wages, poor benefit packages...everything suffers when you agree to work for free - or worse, pay to work.
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Old 19th Jan 2016, 23:48   #15 (permalink)
T2B
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Kuwait
Posts: 13
Check actc tunisa or eagle jet.
All the best
Also search line training pay to fly in wikipedia

Best of luck !
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Old 30th Jan 2016, 13:52   #16 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: holding short of 30L....
Age: 36
Posts: 98
to consider...

50k for a TR + LT... with that money buy a brand new car, with the rest get the Taxi licence and start working as a taxi driver and YOU pay your passengers instead of them paying the fares *on a trip from Chelsea to London Heathrow the passenger would get paid +50 pounds from the driver's pocket! great idea...

Please, go an destroy another industry but stay away from aviation.
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Old 30th Jan 2016, 16:23   #17 (permalink)

Only half a speed-brake
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
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Age: 38
Posts: 1,307
Just received a leaflet from an agency.

An airline is looking for A320 pilots, those not having TR will be required to pay 12.000,- with salary deductions, or 15.000,- and that's it - provided you get the job. Gives you an indication, how much is the cost (as opposed to price) for an EASA A320 TR.
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Old 20th Feb 2016, 10:10   #18 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 36
A word of caution

Self funded = Self selected = No guarantee (by any airline) of a flying job (ever) = Disappointment = Financial loss = Many of the disaffected posters on PPRuNe.
If what you really want is a long term career on jets with a major airline, ensure that the airline does the pre-training selection. Result (if successful) = long term job satisfaction and financial stability plus, hopefully, a contribution towards your training costs on successful completion of the course and subsequent employment. This is not the career for everyone, make sure that it is the one for you.......before you begin training. A frozen ATPL is NOT a guarantee of employment, and neither is a valid Type Rating.
Other routes may be followed, but success in securing meaningful, long term employment is much more problematic, and sadly for some, never achieved.
Follow your dreams - but always be realistic and objective with your goals.
Good luck.
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Old 20th Feb 2016, 12:12   #19 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: ZKPY
Posts: 82
Hi!
I had the same plans with airBaltic. Fortunately enough I got a job offer before it was time to go for their line training. Anyhow, I know enough people to confirm that there are jobs after a paid line training/time building program. The people I know, who completed the 18k program at airBaltic either fly for airBaltic (permanent contract), SAS, Primera, Jet2 and Norwegian. On the downside, yes there is some major aggression towards p2f people. Every captain I tell about my airBaltic rating asks me if it was for the p2f program. I've simply stopped telling them where I got my rating from.
Still, if you can accept some bullying, you will easily find a job afterwards. Especially with the present market.

Good luck!
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