Professional Pilot Training (includes ground studies)A forum for those on the steep path to that coveted professional licence. Whether studying for the written exams, training for the flight tests or building experience here's where you can hang out.
Modular (or 'self improver') vs Integrated is the UK equivalent of Part 61 vs 141. Typically an Integrated student will go from 0 hours to a commercial licence, instrument rating, ATPL theory exams completed and, increasingly, complete a multi crew cooperation course (MCC) rather than the US way one can do, say, a Part141 PPL somewhere then do a Part 141 iinstrument rating elsewhere.
They use the term 'frozen ATPL' for that CPL/IR/ATPL theory but it's a complete misnomer. It's no more an ATPL - frozen, liquid, gaseous or whatever - than a Private Licence with passes in the commercial exams is a 'frozen CPL', or a Student Licence holder with a pass in the PPL exams has a 'frozen PPL'.
Sorry for the off topic but sevenstroke, try this this to make that PDF file work, Download Acrobat Reader for Windows | Old Version.com - get version 7.08 or 6.01 and it will run nicely on an old computer. Just disable the updates thing when it shouts at you to upgrade!
fATPL = CPL + ME/IR + MCC with the full set of ATPL (rather than separate CPL and IR) written exam passes. Legally speaking however, it's still just a CPL/ME/IR.
ATPL = fATPL with at least 1500TT of which 500 multi-crew then an ATPL kill test, required to command a multi-crew aircraft with pax on board.
Modular = doing the bits you want / need, in your own time, under your own management, with one or more training providers. Requires at-least 250 hrs.
Integrated = doing the fATPL from zero to hero with a single training provider, approved to do this by the CAA, no separate hourbuilding, no separate PPL, can I think be done in 175 hrs. Preferred apparently by some airlines, disparaged by many in other flying environments as overpriced and creating pilots who are incapable of doing anything but operate to strict procedures in a corporate environment.
Typical bill for modular fATPL ~£50k Typical bill for integrated fATPL ~£90k.
There are two reasons for a European not to go to a US aviation department:
(1) An FAA licence isn't useable in Europe
(2) The degrees they award are pretty much worthless academically.
You have to make allowances for the strange behaviour of mac users Cityflyer, but you could have just answered his question - regulations and reality are not quite the same, any more than the bible or q'uran explain the strange behaviour of many religious groups.
Odd seventrokeroll. Am I right in thinking you did not know what integrated or modular is. Yet you say "And to those who ask, INTEGRATED or modular...DO IT MODULAR...it gives you more options". Odd. It didn't take you long to reach such a conclusion.
These fully residential courses offer the quickest means of qualifying for a Commercial Pilot’s Licence
No they don't, an intelligent techinical background modular pilot can clean up in less time. Especially if they are willing to fudge the solo groundschool crap to include the fact that it will be the third if not the forth time they have look at subjects.
You can knock the technical ATPL subjects off in two months with a month brush up and exams and the none tech in a month and a month brush up and exams.
PLL 3 weeks
Hour build 4 weeks
CPL two weeks
IR if FNPT II 6 weeks
IR in FNPT I 7-10 weeks.
MCC two weeks.
I was just shy of 12 months start to finish while holding down a full time job. I was meeting folk on the brush ups that were only halfway through the residential ground school modual 1 after seeing them on the brush up for mod one whenb coming back for mod 2.
And spice it really doesn't take much to realise that fact when your paying for it yourself and you have an above 100 IQ and your are not taken in by the marketing.
If you are on a scheme go for it paying your own way you have to be bonkers.
cityflyer...gosh you europeans are different than us . We just answer the question. Like one guy said, I probably have more time in the flare than you have time!
spicejetter...integrated and modular are just terms for the same thing we have here in the USA. But England and the USA are seperated by a common language. You say things like REHEAT and we say AFTERBURNING/afterburner.
We say YOKE and you say SPECTACLES.
why not call the whole thing off? (music cue).
You say circuit and we say traffic pattern. If I said: I had a problem in the circuit. I would expect my friends would understand it was an electrical problem. I would say vaccuum tube and you would say valve.
But I do know that places go out of business without refunding your up front money from here to timbuktu. I know one poor kid in Nevada who put up 5000 US Dollars to get a ''deal'' on Seneca ONE time. Two weeks later, the plane crapped out and he couldn't get his money back. TWO huge mistakes...seneca ONE, and putting money up in advance.
And to the guys who say US licenses can't be used in europe...that may be true....but we have the jobs!
I just asked a question...slang terms aside...trying to communicate is your duty as a pilot.
by the way, I don't think you can even take the ATP writtens in the USA without having the full 1500 hours (in specific areas). I remember having my log book audited by the FAA to allow me to take the written. Of course this was in prehistoric times . You know...NDB approaches, no autopilot and having know how to enter holding all by yourself without a box to tell you what to do.
advice:
don't pay up front for LIFETIME dancing lessons don't pay up front for orthodontia don't pay up front for flying lessons.
Like one guy said, I probably have more time in the flare than you have time!
Let us all bow before the mighty. Quite how that is relevant is a mystery.
Quote:
trying to communicate is your duty as a pilot
Firstly, one might care to look in the mirror.
Secondly, contributions here do not form part of anyone's duty as a pilot.
Here's an interesting fact. I paid up front, in full, for an integrated course. I didn't lose anything.
So your blanket statement is somewhat presumptuous as you can not know the exact financial circumstances of the people you are advising(!) and or every flying school.
