Professional Pilot Training (includes ground studies)A forum for those on the steep path to that coveted professional licence. Whether studying for the written exams, training for the flight tests or building experience here's where you can hang out.
I doubt that'll be of any use. Like cabair No doubt PTC will be a collection of accounts, "sister companies", owners and directors. The Cabair guys got nothing. Not sure how it works in Irelabd but the guys at the top of failed UK businesses rarely end up out if pocket. They certainly don't loose or are forced to sell assets.
Alaxander he looks to be having a dig at a person who has used students at the school to fund a property captal investment program. This property will not be at risk whatever happens to the school. Its quite common to be honest.
He is also implying that someone has been forging a log book.
The Irish pilot-training firm at the centre of a financial row that has left trainee pilots stranded in Florida said this evening it was continuing to do everything it could to source alternative training courses for its students.
Some 80 students, 34 of them Irish, paid up to €86,000 to train with the Pilot Training College (PTC), a Waterford-based flight school.
They had been receiving training in the Florida Institute of Technology (FIT), which had a contract with the Waterford school, but, due to a financial dispute, the Florida centre has stopped their training.
In a statement this evening, PTC said of the 180 students in Florida, 70 already had their training taken care of by their respective airlines.
“In relation to the remaining 110 students PTC has been in dialogue with CAE Oxford Aviation Academy over the past several days in an effort to formulate an alternative training facility for most PTC students in light of the cancellation of the training contract between PTC and the FIT,” it said.
“A detailed analysis of all student training records has been undertaken by both PTC and CAE Oxford Aviation Academy and a formula has been arrived at on a student by student basis.”
PTC said the first group of 39 students had been informed of the details of this plan and that "they would not be financially impacted by the difficulties in PTC Florida due to a credit being offered by CAE on the initial deposit amount that the students have already paid."
“The remaining 71 students have been categorised in groups depending on their stage of training and performance to date. Before the end of this week, PTC will let students know individually whether CAE Oxford Aviation Academy intends to make them an offer to continue their training. The students who receive such an offer and who intend to avail themselves of it will be invited to contact CAE Oxford Aviation Academy directly and to enter into a new training contract. This process will take a few more days to run its course,” the statement continued.
PTC said it had furnished the Irish Aviation Authority with all documentation required to confirm all training records are in order.
It added that while CAE will offer a “moderate discount” to offset part of the amount already paid for the course, “PTC recognises and deeply regrets that a number of students will incur additional costs in having their training completed as a result of the ongoing dispute between FIT and PTC”
The firm said it was doing everything possible to “mitigate any losses”
Earlier, Fianna Fáil’s transport spokesman said the Government has a “moral obligation” to ensure the Irish trainee pilots stranded in Florida can complete their training at another flight school.
Timmy Dooley said students were “still stranded in the US unsure of what to do next, having paid thousands of euro for their training”.
“These students have been put under enormous financial stress and strain over the past three weeks and they are still in the dark about what happened to the training course they paid for in the first place and what options there are for them now.”
He said the issue raised “serious questions” for the Government and the Irish Aviation Authority and it was clear that some bonding or insurance situation was needed for this type of situation.
“This is the type of issue that arises from time to time where swift Government action is necessary. Minister for Transport Leo Varadkar must clearly set out what exactly the Government is prepared to do to ensure the welfare of the students in Florida is taken care of and, if necessary, the Government should be prepared to put in place the funds needed to allow the students complete their training and reach their final qualification.”
Mr Dooley said he had raised the issue in the Dáil last Thursday and had sought clarification from the Government on a number of issues but had yet to receive a response.
Fine Gael TD for Donegal North East, Joe McHugh, said the Pilot Training College in Waterford had accepted “substantial five-figure fees” from a Donegal student pilot studying at its partner college in Florida as recently as June 14th.
“Three weeks from that date the student was informed that training was to be suspended indefinitely,” he said.
“The Pilot Training College must disclose if it was aware on June 14th that the training programme was in jeopardy. Irish student pilots have now been told that they must pay figures averaging €48,000 for four training programmes in order to continue their training with another college, despite having already paid the Pilot Training College for these courses.”
He said the student pilots deserved strong support from the Department of Transport and the Irish Aviation Authority that would take into consideration their ability to pay for fees at alternative colleges, and the costs that had arisen from their stranding in Florida.
It must also be established “very quickly” if the college would be in a position next spring to complete planned training programmes for the students upon their return to Ireland.
Mr Varadkar said it would be “a very big change in policy and a very expensive change in policy” if the Government were to pick up the bill for the trainees.
Speaking on RTÉ radio, he said the Government was doing what it could for them “within our obligations and within what we can afford”.
“PTC recognises and deeply regrets that a number of students will incur additional costs in having their training completed as a result of the ongoing dispute between FIT and PTC”
Those people are the worst liars ever seen : first they say THEY terminated the contract with FIT because FIT didn't meet their standards and didn't manage to train enough students per month ; then they recognize it's over a financial dispute that they got KICKED OUT of here.
The worst part is they say the WHOLE SCHOOL shuts its doors permanently due to a financial dispute with their partner in Florida. Hmmm couldn't they just find another one ? Just because your partner doesn't want you in their place doesn't mean you can't find a solution...
It's obvious that the heads of the company just put the whole money coming in in a bank account or real estate somewhere where the skies are blue and the sea transparent, and that the termination of the contract with FIT was the trigger to launch the final phase of the plan : shutting every door and leaving everyone with a wallet as full as Mike Edgeworth's sense of honnor.
They say they're trying to find ways of completing their students' training, but what is basically said there is "oh, look another school that might accept you if you pay another 40K€". Pathetic.
He said the issue raised “serious questions” for the Government and the Irish Aviation Authority and it was clear that some bonding or insurance situation was needed for this type of situation.
“This is the type of issue that arises from time to time where swift Government action is necessary. Minister for Transport Leo Varadkar must clearly set out what exactly the Government is prepared to do to ensure the welfare of the students in Florida is taken care of and, if necessary, the Government should be prepared to put in place the funds needed to allow the students complete their training and reach their final qualification.”
Hmmm... I wonder how the UK CAA would react to this one?
Probably increase the scheme of charges, giving the UK government more income to pay to the EU more cash in order that the Irish government could be bailed-out, again, as they hadn't completed enough due diligence and regulatory oversight in the first place.
I'm so proud to be a Bog Hopper.
Last edited by Cows getting bigger; 10th Jul 2012 at 11:03.
The latest letter from PTC is suggesting that students will be passed on to Oxford Aviation Academy, albeit with only a "modest discount" IE further money needed from the student.
Why pick the most gold-plated FTO ? It is a similar scam to the one that the dying Cabair pulled in asking for an extra £15k from trainees.
FFS - DO NOT throw good money after bad !
If PTC cannot provide what they are supposed to, then they are in breach of contract, so you should get your money back pro-rata. I would suggest the students approach a solicitor, form a creditors group, and have PTC declared insolvent so they can at least get some money back (?).
If they are giving some bung to Oxford, there must be some money left ? As CGB states, there must be some spare Irish Gov't cash going after their £7bn UK bailout.
Whats the betting that it sorts out the Irish students only, with any from the UK way behind !
Being a Little Englander I would favour keeping all the money ( and all the training ) in the UK.
Whats the betting that it sorts out the Irish students only, with any from the UK way behind !
As an Irish modular student that did research and avoided even so much as eye contact with PTC I will be advocating that neither Irish nor UK students receive any funding from our exchequer. There are far more worthy cases in our very unequal society that would benefit 1000x more...
Moral of the story: Do some research and actually take in what you're actually hearing and seeing! A read of the contract should have been enough to put you off.
I lt wouldn't be fair for the Irish government to bail out the school or the students. Let's face it if you go integrated in most cases you must be fairly affluent or have a lot assets to put up as collateral. Today there is real hardship in Ireland where people are struggling to make ends meet, can't pay bills and having to rely on food banks to feed their kids through no fault of their own. I'm not Irish but if I were then I'd be very annoyed that a select few are being bailed out chasing a dream without due dilligance When I was really struggling.
Yeah priory hall get nothing yet rich kids get jetted home free. Let's face it thebcostnof a flight home is lessor probably less than a CPL licence issue fee or a 170A. Surely the parents could have flown their children home? I hope the flew coach!
Yeah priory hall get nothing yet rich kids get jetted home free. Let's face it thebcostnof a flight home is lessor probably less than a CPL licence issue fee or a 170A. Surely the parents could have flown their children home? I hope the flew coach!
What a pathetic response! There is a large group of guys who see their dreams torn apart. And eventhough you might disagree with whom they trained for what ever reason they have lost either their savings, have a huge loan or feel the financial impact big time. The rich kids thing is generally way of the mark, I have seen people from all walks of life scrapping these amounts together and to sh!t on them like you do says more about you than about them!
Disagree as much as you like but feel sorry for the individual
I feel sorry for the individuals. But there is no way the government should be helping them with tax payers money.
They made a bad investment due to lack of due diligence on their part. You make a bad investment you should carry the can. If they had looked into PTC's record, their relationship with the ASA or even took a cursory look on here they would now be in a much better position.
What's even worse these candidates decided to pay the majority of the course up front. They have my sympathy but I don't believe at a time when there are genuinely needy people in Ireland that these cadets deserve to be bailed out.
They made a bad investment due to lack of due diligence on their part. You make a bad investment you should carry the can. If they had looked into PTC's record, their relationship with the ASA or even took a cursory look on here they would now be in a much better position.
I agree in principle, but on the other hand I think that a prospective student completely new to aviation could be forgiven for thinking some of these companies aren't as shoddy as they really are. The integrated brochures, websites etc. are all slick, well put together, and not entirely dissimilar to what you might expect from a top university.
Nobody warns A-level students to investigate their first choice universities to make sure there are no rumours of them going bust, nor is there any danger of it happening. If the first experience of aviation for a wannabe pilot and their parents is the open day of an organisation like Cabair or PTC, then I don't think they'll have any reason to feel suspicious. Lots of big, neatly furnished buildings, people in smart suits and more than likely at least one video involving someone in a pilot uniform walking across an apron in slow motion.
The impression of a big company, shiny expensive equipment and let's not forget that Boeing report/prophecy of enormous forecast pilot requirements. I know that my family and I were sold on the whole thing and didn't once feel any reason to question the financial affairs of the FTO. I could see why a member of the public wouldn't hand £80,000 over to the local flying club, but these integrated schools do a damn good job of making themselves look too professional and large to disappear overnight when you've no previous experience of the aviation industry. Suppose the applicant does do some research and reads bout the school on PPRuNe, who's going to trust anonymous forum contributions against the word of the real people they met at the open day? I suspect people didn't research PTC further because they felt they had all the information they needed from the open days and their website.
The real blame I suppose is the lack of transparency about these companies and the fact that aviation is just so insular. You can read on here about the mad and bad things happening in aviation- pilots paying to work, people losing thousands to dodgy schools, etc and yet how often does this stuff make an appearance in the mainstream media? The general public don't hear much at all from aviation apart from big airline profit announcements, whilst every time a banker sneezes we're all calling for resignations and payouts. I personally can't blame the wannabe who wakes up one day and decides to be a pilot for having the public perception that aviation is booming and all pilots everywhere are loaded, and thus flying schools are a safe bet as well.
My sympathies go out to those students who might be reading this having been failed by PTC, as someone who very nearly ended up taking the same risk. I can't accuse anyone of a lack of 'due diligence' when the schools are so good at making their target market think that diligence is not due in the first place.
Throw in a few buzzwords like "0 to ATPL - Integrated Course" and that they have passed an aptitude test reallly well (funny that, from a company which has the prospect of £80k coming their way) and it is all pushing in the same direction.
There seems to be an attitude that the really wise ones would check out the likes of this site for an informed opinion.
The troll-like comments alongs the lines of "you deserve to get shafted, you Brit eejit - it's Potato Famine II here" from some of the posters above shows why many just dismiss it as another negative internet forum of limited credibility.
And so it will continue. Any bets as to what name the ex-PTC directors will choose for the next scam ?
Furthermore, it wasn't just the students that had apparently 'failed' to carry out due diligence - Flybe and Gulf Aviation had also enrolled students with PTC.
You man investment that goes bad then you should pick up the pieces. I lost a lot of money at Northern Rock - should I put in a claim to the UK government? Or maybe I should chase former CEO Adam Appelgarth for a refund? Hell no. I took the risk, it didn't work and now im just getting on with it.
None of this sticking the knife in is going to help matters.
Everyone would be better putting there energy into applying pressure for a regulation change that would protect the future students investment.
Ie either a bond stumped up by the training organisation or a method of secure accounting which meant that funds could only be accessed at the point of training being given.
But then again I would suspect that would kill off a fair few schools as soon as it came in.
research and actually take in what you're actually 
I don't think residents of Priory Hall got so much.
