Jambone

Hi all,

Just came across this outfit. Zero > Frozen ATPL - Flying Time Aviation

From what I've read so far, they seem to be very good and provide excellent training, just wondering if anyone had any first hand experience to add to this?

Also, to open the floodgates somewhat, what are people's opinions on an outfit such as this, where the costs are dramatically lowered, compared to somewhere such as Oxford. Are the airline connections the top 3 possess worth the extra £30,000?

B2N2

As usual, the USA route would be cheaper and more advantageous.
For the same amount of money you could have BOTH your FAA and your JAA/EASA CPL ME-IR iso only the EU CPL.

Jambone

True, and I am seriously considering it. My only issue with it is the hour-building process, which I know many see as advantageous, but I'm undecided.

pudoc

Unless you're under a cadet scheme I would go modular. But if you must must must go integrated then pick CTC.

At least CTC are good at placing cadets (albeit some are on sh*t contracts and I know people on these who regret their choice), this school offers nothing like that for their students. So might as well go modular, I see no difference between their modular and integrated course whatsoever.

I personally would go somewhere that's been around a bit longer like BCFT or Stapleford. But if you are local to Shoreham then you could save money on staying at home.

I do like this company's no bull crap approach on their website. Prices clearly visible. Some companies put them in a PDF on a not-so-easy to find part of their website.

I'd also steer clear of the US if you can. But that's my opinion.

ct8282

I fly with Flying Time but am only PPL. I did my training in Florida but fly their PA28D's which are great planes.

So what can I tell you about Flying Time? Well, they are a great outfit indeed. Their fleet of planes I would say are easily the best at Shoreham. They have a number of PA28's, Cessna's, DA40's and DA42's. All of the guys at Flying Time are great, and the instructors I have flown with their are excellent, Barnaby in particular.

I have spoken to plenty of students doing their flight training there are they have all been very positive about the school. Bizarrely I have also bumped into people I met in Florida who are continuing their training at Flying Time. Small world or what.

Based on my experience I would at least recommend you consider Flying Time. Certainly get down there and meet the crew and the planes in person.

Jambone

Cheers for the feedback so far guys.

Always interesting to see the difference in opinions regards the US. As for their integrated course, the advantages over the modular are, according to them a shorter timescale to completion. They also throw in a uniform, electronic ID (what even for) and they pay for the aircraft rent for testing (might be worth it - not sure on the cost of this).

OAA vs CTC is a whole other argument which I'd probably be better served reading up on than asking again, but I can see the advantage and disadvantage of what they can offer.

ct8282, it's good to hear that what I've heard is correct so thank you for the feedback. Off the basis of that I can throw it into the mix with some of the more established modular schools such as BCFT and Stapleford.

Hoping to get down to looking within the next year or so, the more delaying the better it seems with this current economic situation..

afro-anonymous

Lol, job prospects I think are almost non existent, the funny bit about this school to me is the fact that you have to wear a uniform as a modular trainee just in case you bump into a 'prospective employer'. Nobody is setting on & if they were I doubt they'd come looking in training schools when there are loads of qualified pilots out there, it's your money-spend it how you like...

All the best

Jambone

I'm used to the uniform lark with my sixth form being all uptight about it haha. Is it any good in your opinion?

Cheers

pudoc

As long as you visit the school, do your research and you'll be fine.

Uniforms mean nothing btw. Usually it's a tool to get you to come to them. Don't let it put you off but don't let it be a deciding factor either.

For the record, I'll complete 0 hours to fATPL by full time modular quicker than going integrated. So integrated isn't always quicker.

Good luck.

Jambone

Alright guys, thanks for the feedback and I'll try and find the time to go and take a look at them at some point.

G-RICH

... you must be at Solihull School then. The 6th Form College don't do uniforms !

A blue wooley/pulley, white shirt and black trousers with a pair of black shoes would do the job at most places. Having the single gold stripe on each epaulette is just sad.

If you want to know who does courses, do a search on Standards Document 31 on the CAA website.

I do not see any evidence that CTC can offer an Integrated CPL/IR course. And what 20 years ago used to be regarded as "integrated" has long since gone. Oxford etc just do in effect modular, but back-to-back. Don't see any advantage in this at all. In fact, since you actually have to get a PPL prior to doing ATPL theory with Modular, I would suggest this is better.

The arguement that the USA is cheaper and better is tripe. Cannot see the point in learning in a completely different flying environment to the one you hope to earn a living in, and the flying schools in the USA which go out of their way to attract trainees from overseas seem to attract all the dross operators.

Don't be mislead into going for a place because you have passed some mickey-mouse aptitude test that they probably nicked from a set of 11+ papers and the tell you that you have passed spiffingly well. I would tell anyone who was going to spend £60-80k with me that they are a genius !

I would suggest doing a PPL first. At least you can see if flying is for you.
The next step would be to go and visit any place you are considering; first impressions usually turn out to be correct. If is too far away to visit - do go.

Getting to Florida and finding that you are in classes of 38 for groundschool (max for a CAA approved course is 24), the shared accomodation is infested with cockroaches and that the instructor's first language is actually Spanish is certainly going to test your strength of commitment !

prancing

Hi there

I have been considering Flying Time for a while now and after visiting them couple of months ago I do feel it might be worth investing in them.

The aircrafts they operate are well maintained as far as I could see. They are in a very small building on the airfield right now but I have heard that they would be moving to new premises soon with better facilities.

As far as uniforms etc are concerned these are marketing tricks that companies advertise to brand themselves and so is the way in which they call their courses.

I feel that in order to choose a proper flight school you need to make sure you would fit into the environment; And Shoreham does suit me well.

Any more feedback would be welcomed from people already in Shoreham at Flying Time before my final decision is made.

Thank you

pakythepilot

pudoc what do you mean with " they don't make any difference between their modular and cadet"? they use to place modular into their airline partneships, obviously after cadet, or are you just talking about the way that they use to keep you in consideration during your training, making no difference between cadet and modular but just treating modular in the same way of their cadet? sorry if my question could seem a little bit strange but I'm deciding in which school I could attend my modular flight training and my decision is between FTE Jerez and CTC. I'm quite confused because both of them are great and professional schools so every news could help me to make a good choice.

Jambone

Haha, absolutely love the blunt honesty in your reply! I've had about 8 hours flying and so far loved every minute of it, having considered other career choices I really don't find any of them as attractive a prospect as pilot.

That was one of my main concerns regarding the US, the standard of training due to the sheer number of flying schools and the apparent inconsistency amongst them.

And I'm actually up at King Edward Five Ways, no uniform so to speak, but suit required...all a bit of a PITA if you ask me

Cheers for yet more quality feedback!

flyboyweeksy

I have just completed the ATPL ground school at flying time after starting at cabair and leaving after its first demise. Best decision I made to go there. Excellent, friendly and knowledgable instructors and would recommend. Will be even better once the new premises is up and running but I wish I had found them earlier. Well worth the trip to check it out and the pricing is very good.

G-RICH

Ah.. grammar school boy then. My daughter sat for Camp Hill. She was 200 out of 1,300... so number 70 on the waiting list ! Short of an epidemic of Black Death proportions she was never going to therefore go.

Have you applied for RAF / Navy ? They love guys like you.

Send me a PM if you want my further take on it.

Jambone

Ah fair enough, saying that I don't know what I'd have done with myself if not for the "mixed" element which Camp Hill didn't offer!

I briefly showed an interest, we had an RAF careers officer come in and all those interested had an interview in small groups. Have to say I'd always seen it as my last choice - something which they definitely wouldn't love about me, and the careers officer made this perfectly clear also. I've just never been interested in that type of flying to be honest.

Thanks for the suggestion all the same

ct8282

Oh. I did my PPL in Florida at EFT and my shared accommodation (shared apartment with my own bedroom and toilet/bathroom facilities, just a shared lounge and kitchen) was immaculate, huge and air conditioned and I didn't see 1 cockroach. The apartment was on the airfield and I had free access to the airfield and planes at all times, 24 hours a day. It is a very big academy and people were flying 24 hours a day. Many nights I met up with hour builders and CPL pilots and right seated for night flights and was just generally immersed in flying 24 hours a day. It was AWESOME.

The instructors were multinational but all spoke absolute fluent English. My instructor was Danish and was superb. All of the instructors I spoke with were fantastic. All in all I saved about £3k compared to doing my PPL in the UK, and I was able to fly consistently, unlike the very prolonged down time you experience in the UK. I would imagine that most students in the UK have done next to fu*k all flying in the last 2 months with the completely crap weather we have had here.

But of course it sounds like you know all about flying in the states and know what all of the flight schools are like from personal experience.

To the OP, I can highly recommend EFT if you do think about the US route. Whilst I agree with comments about learning to fly in the UK airspace I can tell you that I had no problems integrating into the UK way of things when I returned. I started flying with Flying Time straight away and wisely had 4 flights with instructors before I went solo in the UK, just to get an instructors eye on things, and of course they wanted me to 'check out' on their planes before I could hire them.

All of the instructors I flew with from Flying Time said that my flying was spot on and that EFT had trained me to a very high standard indeed. They commented that because I was able to fly so regularly in Florida (2 flights a day, apart from 3 days when storms disrupted the flying), my flying was very precise and accurate. They said it was very obvious that I had this level of consistent flight time and exposure and that they often get students from other UK schools who are just not flying to a high standard and need a lot of work.

I literally had one lesson on the overhead join (not done in the USA), one lesson to gain ATC experience and learn the area, and then the checkout, and I was flying the UK skies solo.

will fly for food 06

I wish them all the best with the Integrated course. It is nice to see an FTO take on the larger Integrated schools. I suggest anyone who is interested should actually pay them a visit and see if its the right place for them.

CptMorgan

Good evening folks,

After finishing my ATPL, I visited several flying schools to decide where to go.

I never booked any appointment to visit the schools, I wanted to see how busy and friendly they were.


Bristol was the first I visited and made a really good impression. They have enough planes and well maintained; an ILS and they dont charge more than 15 minutes on the ground if its busy.

I read later on on the internet that we can wait a while in the air doing holds to let some commercial traffic land. Does it happen a lot ? I don't know...

Then I went to Multi flight in Leeds. I can't remember the exact figure but they seemed to be more expensive than the other schools. The CPL is on a twin also if a recall correctly. I didnt feel really welcome

My next school was Aeros in Gloucester and Coventry. I went first to Gloucester and loved their hospitality.
The main problem in my opinion was their fleet. Even though they have a nice Tecnam, if it comes to fail.... you have to wait for it to be fixed.
They offered good price

Stapleford was professionnal and honest. They were the only one to tell me how much a CPL/IR would cost.
They printed their package and also the hidden fees (170A, Test,...)
All the schools were between 18000 and 20000 pounds but you can add 5 000 for the hidden charges...

The last one I visited was shoreham. They have DA40 and DA42. The building is small but it doesnt change anything.
The atmosphere is relaxed and they are friendly.

I hesitated between Bristol and Shoreham.
-Bristol seem to offer the more professionnal training but on old aircraft. They have an ILS !
-Shoreham has NDB approach and Rnav approach. They have G1000 aircraft and it makes sense to do the whole training on the same Avionic.

I picked Shoreham for the Aircraft.

Having done my CPL there and now finishing my IR, I have more feedback to give you.

It is based on my opinion, I will try to remain objective.

+Good atmosphere
+Good prices for package CPL/IR (you end up with a bit more hours on a twin aircraft for the same price as others schools)
+Nice accomodation in the area and living in shoreham/Brighton is great !
+Aicraft in good conditions and available


-Prices: You pay a standard rate and are refunded with the discount upon completion of your package.... Was never mentioned in any documents...

-Atmosphere too relaxed ? I was expecting more for my training. We rarely have a briefing before the flight and most of the time the debrief is really quickly done. I was told that there is no need for a briefing before each flight as once we have done an ILS, there is no need to come back to it... I let this to your appreciation !
For my CPL, when I moved on the Da42, I was expecting to have a walk around with the instructor to show me the new features. I had to wait my 4th or 5th flight for that !

-Scheduled is a mess. As a full time student, I am supposed to be on site the whole day. You have your planning the night before at 8pm. It is hard to plan sometimes...

--CAA fees are horrible ! 700 or 780 pounds, cant remember exactly for the Initial test. If you have to do a partial, it is 535 pounds... This is the same for every schools.

The package includes a specific amount of approaches and landings. Be aware of the expensive fees if you go beyond.
Single aicraft landing fee: 20 pounds.
It increases to 40 pounds when flying the DA42.


General View:

I am really pleased with the aircraft and the atmosphere. If you want to fly the diamonds G1000, this is the place to go.
If you dont care about the aircraft, consider visiting other places.

If you have any questions or if you have a different experience with them, feel free to share