Professional Pilot Training (includes ground studies)A forum for those on the steep path to that coveted professional licence. Whether studying for the written exams, training for the flight tests or building experience here's where you can hang out.
Hi guys. So here's the deal: I obviously want to become a pilot. But my brother kinda stands in my way... he is planning on doing helicopter training. This is very expensive and our poor old father will have to foot the bill. I want to be an aeroplane pilot, and I know the training for this is expensive too. So I would go the modular route as it will probably be a little less expensive than going down the whole integrated path. That said, it will still cost a fair amount of money and my dad would probably - (I'm estimating here) - pay about 25K. If that. He is a surgeon for anybody wanting to know the situation concerning dad. Even though he would technically be able to fund all my training, I'm sure you all know what I mean when I say I would hate to sponge off my dad too much. That's where the loan would come in. He is totally (completely!) against racking up debts at such a young age - which I can understand. But what do you guys think? Is it possible to pay it back before my hair turns grey? Is there anyone here who has done this? Do you regret it? Is it very hard to pay back??
Follow your dad's advice, wait and re-assess in future years as to whether it is a path you still wish to follow. Now i'm afraid is not the time to rack up loan debt - your young, you can wait it out and reap the benefit when things improve.
I took out a personal loan a year ago for part of my flying training, however if i could i would of 'sponged' of my parents. if you can avoid stacking up your monthly out goings it will make things alot easier whilst training
I've been thinking a lot recently about my own plans in flying- you and I are, according to our profiles, 17. At our age we're pretty fortunate in that we've a lot of time ahead of ourselves and, despite what the integrated schools told me at their open days, I'm reasonably confident that there isn't a dire shortage of 19/20 year old 200hr airline cadets at the moment or just round the corner.
I believe that at 17 flight training, university and/or saving up with a full-time job needn't be mutually exclusive. Obviously, it's not for me to give you advice, but my analysis of the situation is that there's not really any rush to get into any flight training yet, especially as a seventeen year old with all your options still available. A fATPL is a qualification to fly aeroplanes and if there aren't any pilot jobs available, it's an expensive thing to maintain with renewals, medical et cetera. Not to mention the loan repayments as well.
My plans, in case you were wondering, go something along the lines of this (note that I'm not really interested in the airlines-I'm more into whizzwheels and pistons then Fly by Wire and magenta lines, although that's just me):
Finish PPL> Go to Uni (which happens to have a very reasonably priced flying club!)> Finish with more life experience and people skills > Find suitable work, ideally in the aviation industry> network, approaching people as a colleague or fellow weekend bimbler rather than a stranger looking for work > Finish modular CPL/IR in my spare time with no debt > look for ideal GA job whilst working (no rush, nothing to lose).
No P2F, no big upfront payments, no £1000 per month loan repayments, no £200 skills assessments. Obviously there's no 'partner airlines' and I won't get any gold epaulettes for training, and my chances of ever getting to buy my own uniform as an F/O for Ryanair are slim.
On the other hand, there's nothing to stop me enjoying my PPL at the weekends in the meantime, even if, God forbid, I end up visiting relatives and fly-ins and build up hours in an 'unstructured manner'. If I never find that dream bush-instructor-air taxi flying career, I'll still be a hobby pilot and an enthusiastic one at that.
If I could borrow and pay £80k knowing that the school won't go bust overnight and I'd be 100% guaranteed a long career full of the sort of adventures I've read about in 'Fate is The Hunter' I'd be down the bank tomorrow morning!
I apologise if this post came across as jaded and cynical, but I do try to make an objective assessment of the modern aviation industry, and to me it just doesn't make sense any more to go into training as soon as I finish sixth form given my personal interests and circumstances. Yours will of course be different and I wish you the best of luck with your career!
a wannabe struggling with the question of what he wants to be or not to be!
I'd be extremely hesitant on training at the moment. No one really knows what Europe is about to do. Airlines here are still somewhat fragile and it's being reflected in other parts of the world now too.
Get a job and save money like you've never saved before. Do as little of your training on credit as possible. When you start seeing green shoots of recovery then start thinking about training.
I did more of my training on credit than I planned/would have liked to. Paying £500+ a month on loan repayments for the next 5 years won't be pleasant. Yes it'll be worth it in the end but theres no point suffering when you have the time to save money. Yes, it's less than most CTC/OAA students are paying back but that doesn't make it ok.
OutsideCAS, I don't want to wait! But I guess being impatient and making the wrong decisions now will certainly not benefit me later on, you're right average-punter, I have heard about the BBVA loans, and you're right, they look far from desirable! propellerhead01, trust me, if you're tight with your dad, it's a terrible feeling having to take large amounts of money from him. Have to think about his future plans too! haha Whirlygig, sorry, I maybe didn't express it clearly but my brother hasn't actually started training and therefore dad hasn't made any financial decisions yet. You have to remember though, dad doesn't even know that I want to become a pilot yet!!!! student88, thank you for the advice. Saving like hell sounds about right! What kind of licence do you have? How can you afford to pay that back? DO you have another job or are you flying? And pudoc, I suppose it's possible but the way things are sounding in the industry, I wouldn't be able to pay him back for a looong while!
Yea, you're right dad probably is nicer than the banks! He wouldn't claw back money from me like the banks seem to be doing to you! Unlucky mate. And ye, that is a major bummer indeed! But surely any job is better than none? Should they not just have accepted the job anyway? haha I don't know their situation so sorry if I'm being a bit naiive
Location: Propping up bars in the Lands of D H Lawrence and Bishop Bonner
sorry, I maybe didn't express it clearly but my brother hasn't actually started training and therefore dad hasn't made any financial decisions yet. You have to remember though, dad doesn't even know that I want to become a pilot yet!!!!
Well, you did say that your "poor old father will have to foot the bill" ... that does rather sound like a done deal. One of the reasons why correct English is so important - it prevents misunderstandings. I took your comment to mean that your father was duty bound to pay for your brother's helicopter training whereas that is not the case?
Anyway, maybe it's about high-time you actually talked your parents (that will include your mother by the way) about your career aspirations. Until you have talked to them, there is no point in pre-empting their answers and opinions. Get in there first before bro' does.
You are 17. Get down the local flying club and get involved. Get your face known. Help behind the bar (when old enough). wash aircraft, scab backseat rides with the regulars etc etc. Anything to get into the air (flying lessons for birthdays/christmas etc). Go to a university with an air squadron (free flying!)etc etc. All of this should be your first steps that you should be doing NOW. The financing CPL, ATPL etc should come several years down the line for someone of your age. One step at a time.
If you really really want to do this make sure you are fully aware what it involves. Why does your dad not know you want to be a pilot? Is this because you have never shown any interest in aviation/you just had a moment of enlightenment? If so how do you really know this is what you want to do for the next 40 years of your life??
You are 17 and most likely have never had a full time job. I am not meaning to be rude but you probably have no REAL concept of the value of money. You have years and years ahead of you. Maybe plan on entering full time training in your mid-20s and work for a few years to save 10-20 grand to take the edge off any debt. That will give you much better perspective. You will still be considered "Young" (other than by the RAF... who aren't really recruiting much at the moment anyway)
That your father is a surgeon puts you in a very lucky position. But it will be all the sweeter if you go out there and do a bit of grassroots flying first & come up with a proper plan to achieve your goal... much better than "daddy can I have some money please"..... but you seem to already know that. Good luck... and get down to you local flying club...
Just to put things in perspective - you will be taking on the equivalent of a mortgage. Given that you will have to live somewhere as well, you will be paying that twice over before you start eating.
I know you're keen, but you will have to learn to be patient when you start flying, so you may as well start now!
Having said all that, it isn't impossible - I'm sure with the right motivation you will get there - just don't lose sight of it in those dark hours. I would suggest however that you can fly aeroplanes and still have fun without being in the airlines. Firebombing, etc. I lost count of the big jet pilots who used to come and admire the DHC2 (Beaver) I was flying and wished they were still flying one.
Of course you (and your brother) could look to the military who will not only train you at the tax payers expense but will actually pay you a wage while youíre doing it. Also when you decide to leave the military world and enter civvie life as a pilot, the military training will be well respected by civvie employers.
It is true that post the recent SSDR the military is currently laying people off, however it is interesting to note that in the latest tranche of RN redundancies there is no requirement for pilots or observers to apply and having spoken to a senior RN observer recently he reckons that the RN are desperately short of aircrew at the moment.
Youíre still relatively young, get the A levels done, consider a degree (many unis have University Air Squadrons associated with them which will provide you 30hrs good quality SEP training at no charge to you with no obligation to join the military on completion).
Just a thought as to how you and your brother might save the old man a whole wedge of money.
Good luck with whatever you (and your brother) choose to do.
EDIT: Of course if you don't fancy the BS and discipline of the military or being shot at by nasty people, perhaps you could convince your brother that it might be the way ahead for him and you poach the cash that your dad had put aside for his helicopter training!!!!
Location: UK, Oregon/US and soon OZtraileeyaaah baby
grass strip basher is quite reasonable.
At your age, if you want to fly fixed wing, you better get involved. At your age, you can get lots of heavily discounted and FREEE flying and I don't mean only cheapo or free gliding (improves your stick skills etc).
Though I can feel for your brother. He won't get as easy way into job with helicopters. But hey ho, rack up a debt and daddy will cough up, if secured on your/his house, isn't it so?
You can do your training fairly cheaply. You can do your CPL and SE IR, thus saving on renewals when there would be no good hiring market later on, the SE IR keeping the ATPL theory credits and then when time right, do your ME IR. Actually, NO. Just do the CPL/MEIR modules once the job market is good. Beforehand get other requirements out of way. BTW, you can use some gliding PIC towards the CPL issue 200hrs, but it's not worth the aerotow only training in terms of hours/expense. If you like flying, gliding is great fun and winch launch training is cheap for youngsters with almost nil membership and reduced flying. If you're involved in gliding, get your RAF/air league scholarship for PPL(A). Get some towing in over the summer - PIC time for you. Do whatever extra XC time before or after.
There are many ways to save cash while building skills, airmanship, knowledge. Oh, and btw, doing Uni that can get you reasonably paid job, is important, too. There are people against it, but trust me, it's easier to study when you're young and staying at home with parents. Also saves money for living cost.
I spent best part of my 20's working on my rotary (and fixed wing alongside, partially) training/career and I know value of money. When at your age, I couldn't even dare to hope for aviation career due to my background and life. So yeah, count yourself lucky to be in well-off family, in the UK, at that age.
EDIT: Just my personal opinion, but, why don't you quit that ridiculous motto/location in your profile, FDP? For someone in your circumstances, it makes more fun of you than some benefit and I doubt it'd impress chicks this way on this 'aviation anoraks' forum anyway..
Whirlygig , bro is already in there... nothing I can do. And my mum knowing about this is irrelevant because she lives in a different country and has pretty much no say in what I do. But I guess the time will come... Grass strip basher, I just want to say firstly and most importantly: my interest in flying was not brought about by some random recent enlightenment. I have loved the idea of piloting, planes and GA since I was really young. I have travelled about a lot and love airports, planes and everything that goes with it! Now that that's cleared up, I like your idea of going down to my local airfield and having a look about - seeing if I can help out or just watch. But I live somewhere where that's sadly not possible. There's a little airport which does nothing apart from landing flights from Aberdeen, Edinburgh, Glasgow and that kinda stuff. The only jobs there are luggage handlers or working behind a desk... These things aren't open to me. Such a shame. Also can I really wait that long till I start training? Will the training costs not just soar and never really be reduced? Will the demand ever shoot up again? What do you think? magicmick, I don't really fancy a military career. But now that you mention it, my bro has thought about joining the marines... maybe I could convince him... I like your thinking! MartinCh, I know I'm lucky. But I don't think Uni is for me... don't have the grades... And OK, I shall change my location but... chicks? On PPRuNe? I think not... haha! I know, Aware, poor guy! But that's just how it is! He would rather I become a doctor or lawyer but... no, I wanna fly!