Professional Pilot Training (includes ground studies)A forum for those on the steep path to that coveted professional licence. Whether studying for the written exams, training for the flight tests or building experience here's where you can hang out.
Hi, few things about FTO Bartolini: 1. This is the only FTO in Poland which owns Tecnam P2006T. Ventum Air on it's website informs that they have it as well, but at this moment it's not true yet. At this moment they have only one C-152 ready to fly, the rest of the airplanes on the website it's only commercial. 2. Bartolini has Seneca V 220T as well. So, there is a choice on which airplane you want to fly. However, Tecnam is definitely cheaper than Seneca, no doubts. 3. Bartolini flies from a controlled airfield - Łódź. But, this is not very crowded, so there is no problem to practice holdings and approaches. 4. I never heard any one who complained at Bartolini both airplanes and instructors. And about the financial conditions. I met many people (more than 10) who were disapointed with Ventum Air, especially with the CEO. 5. Finally, if you read another thread about Ventum you will find a little bit more about this FTO. And this is not a kind of vendetta, like some one wrote, this is only "correction" of VA CEO lies.
Summarizing, I think that you will be very glad of IR/ME training in FTO Bartolini. If you want more details, let me know
As i remember you were a author of all lies on another forum. And as i remember we alredy report your activity to Polish CAA and i hope i will see you soon mr anybody. The people from Polish CAA are looking for you as well. We really wish to know who you are. The time is tiking for you.
Just to let you know the open day for everyone who wish to see our TECNAM is on 31 of march. And we have much more plane. I will repate my invitation for you again. You are more than welcome to visit our school and see all our planes.
And on the and - Bartolini Air is really good school.
As i assume you are from UK. Best solution for you will be just jump in to the plane and visit polish schools. That will give you all answers.
Unfortunately, some people (R-27) on this forum for the purpose of his life took a generation of false opinions on Ventum AIr. These individuals remain anonymous, which makes them frivolous source of information. They are just cowards who are not able to provide and take responsibility for his words. So to avoid bad decisions I propose that you just came to Poland for one day and on your own eyes convinced of the advantages or disadvantages of each school.
A few weeks ago Polish CAA has published a very restrictive rules for the pilot schools that can train the foreigners in English. In a few days on our website should show what the new certificate to the relevant entry in this field.
And I hope this information will help you make decisions.
Training in Poland has many advantages. It is cheaper than in other EU countries, the level of education is very high, the price of accommodation is very low, cost of living is extremely low.
At the moment I may recommend two schools. Of course, Ventum Air and Bartolini Air. They are very long on the market, for 2 years we working together, and until such time as our certificate of practical (we need 1 more week), all of our students'practical training takes place in Bartolini Air.
From the first week of April only those two schools will have Tecnam Aircraft P2006T - which are very cheap in the training.
With little money, you may build your TT on ME plane.
As someone form FTO Ventum Air wrote: A few weeks ago Polish CAA has published a very restrictive rules for the pilot schools that can train the foreigners in English - this is almost true
In fact, Polish CAA just reminded old rules of training in Poland for foreigners. These rules were announced as a regulation of the Minister of Infrastructure dated 7th August 2003. There were two amendmends of this regulation: 2005 and 2007. Both related to people who were citizens of European Union countries - they do not need any aprovals to conduct pilot training - theoretical and practical. In this case only FTO is obliged to meet some requirements about teachers, materials and language of lectures.
So, for almost 8 years every FTO which wanted to train foreigners, knows these rules perfectly. I say again: nothing new, but still very interesting to know, that pilot training in Poland is available for people from whole world.
you're right but only almost ( as always ) but almost makes a big difference
The polish regulations say you mention a special entry in the certificate for compliance by FTO of training requirements in another language in which you conducted training (practical and theoretical) Apparently not yet known whether the entry will appear in the certificate of FTO. Read the rules carefully.
This entry will testify that the FTO has the materials and instructors to conduct the study in that language (those rules do not affect the citizens of the European Union). This provision has existed for many years but has been neglected. He began to be required in a few weeks ago (published on the website of Polish CAA)
Again you are playing with words and with clear information about the Polish flying schools which are really good and youare trying to do a private war between you and ventumair remaining anonymous (coward trait) on international pilot forum
Follow so on and certainly we will have more students from abroad. So your next stupid smile and acknowledge you only interested in undermining of our FTO.
The whole branch keeps track of your scribble and wonders what a moron you must be to behave like this.
On behalf of the FTO with whom I have contact and talk about the actions of R-27 i apologize the entire community served was unknown to anyone scribble R-27.
I think that students who choose to train in Poland are very happy and every month there are more and more of them.
I just got my Multi Engine Rating (Mep-l) at Bartolini. I did it on the Tecnam.
My experience with the school is very good. I have received flight instruction in Norway, USA and now Poland, and Bartolini impressed me. English was good, they never promissed more than they could keep, and they where service minded.
I stayed at hotel in Lodz and paid ca 60 EURO a night, but there are lower priced alternatives. Taxi from centrum to the school was ca 8 EUROs.
I have a pretty same experience than you. I have made my ME and IR/ME in Bartolini Air and it was a fantastic experience, not only thanks to the airplane (Tecnam). I was also impressed by the instructor professionalism. I may only recommend this school. I will start my CPL here next month. And it is worth to add, that I have alternatives in the city where I live, but I prefer to spend some money on hotels and fly with them. Hopefully I will meet you here .
Just to let you people know, I am currently thinking about doing my modular ATPL (0-200h) at Bartolini next year. Early in the year I got a quote for approx 120,000 Zlotys for the "cheapest" option ie:lots of C-152 & sim time plus minimum Multiengine/complex type time. That about 27,000 pounds which seems pretty good - of course it will most likely go up by next year...
The school is very good,the instructors are great and experienced professional pilots and work comercial regurarly not just flight trainning so you get the real experienced people. The owners/partners and staff are really cool people and always willing to help and find a solution for the best and cheapest possible trainning for you.
Planes are well maintained with on site engineer. They have tecnam p2006t,cessna 172.150 and seneca V etc.
Lodz is a really good airport some comercial trafic like ryanair,wizz air etc but controlers are very nice to student pilots and look after you.
The town/country is really cheap example: car rental daily: 15 euro Hostel Molo: 15 euro Ikea(3km away) 3 euro 3 course meal! Beer in a bar: 1.30 euro cheap cheap cheap!!!
Hi everyone, I hold a Belgium license PPL with night rating and have juste finished the ATPL exam I would like to do my IR/CPL MEP in Poland (Bartolini Air) can someone give me more information about the procedure to transfert my license to poland license.
I just finished my JAA CPL and MEP(L) with Bartolini Air in Lodz, Poland.
The instruction was of the highest level and the team was very professional and great fun to work with.
They delivered on everything they promissed at every step in the process. I was aware from the start that the courses they offer in English are slightly more expensive (though not nearly 15%, more 5%) than courses for Polish students because it is exactly that, a course in English.
Tutorials and lecture materials in English are more expensive than Polish ones, and English speaking instructors are simply able to demand a higher hourly wage.
The level of instruction though was second to none, and I loved flying the Tecnam P2006T. It gave me such value for money, where I was able to fly a multi-engine aircraft for the same price as what I would pay for a C172 in my home country.
Lodz Lublinek is also a geat place to learn to fly. Fully controlled though the tower is not overworked all the time, as there is not a high traffic load ,so they treat the students nicely too. Brand new runway with loads of space for forced landings, and an ILS with all the nav aids. I will definately do my ME/IR here too once I have managed to scrape the money together.
Another very positive thing in my opinion is that they charge blocktimes. I think it is flight time plus three minutes, so if you have to hold for taxi or take off when there is a big bird on finals, you do no pay anything extra which contributes in my view, especially in the initial parts of your training, to flight safety (no irritation that things take a bit longer so more eye for checks).
Than if you ad brand new facilities (that are next to the runway) and in-house mainenance it becomes , for the price they charge, a no-brainer.
All in all I am a very satisfied customer and I can fully recommend this school to anyone!
Hi, I did several of my training with Bartolini and there is no question that it's the best one in Poland and in my personal opinion one of the best in Europe, especially if you take into account the price/quality ratio. Modern fleet, very professional instructors, everybody is willing to help you in case of any problem. They never try to cheat, I mean that if you need some more flight time, you know that it is just because you really need it, not because they want you to spend more money as some other FTO is sometimes doing. I definitively recommend that FTO. Just read other threads and you will see that I am not the only one.
I did part of my training at Bartolini in Lodz and part at Ventum in Warsaw. These are my observations:
- @ Bartolini instructors are experienced (most with thousands of flight hours) whereas @ Ventum there is quite a lot of young, many with restricted FI(A) license;
- @ Bartolini you get thorough help with theory problems you face whereas @Ventum your questions are either left with no answer or explained briefly; nevertheless, if you want to pass ATPL exams, you have to learn a lot on your own and (the best way) subscribe to one of the on-line CQs - I can recommend you bistol, e-atpl or aviationexam;
- when you book a flight @ Bartolini for a specific time, most of the time the plane is ready for you when that time comes, @ Ventum you rarely fly at the booked time;
- everybody @ Bartolini is ready to help you with any normal life problems you face when you live in a foreign country; I didn't have the same feeling @ Ventum;
- EPLL (where Bartolini flies) is a controlled airport with an ILS - you practice flying at a controlled airport from the first start; at Lodz Tower all controllers speak English very well; if you need to do your IR training you can practice twice as many approaches as you would do @ Ventum;
- EPBC (where Ventum is located) is not a controlled airport - at Babice Info most controllers speak English very poor... sometimes I wonder how do they pass those language tests?! you don't feel too comfortable when the controller on the other side makes you repeat few times before he understands what you say; what's more, for every IR training flight @ Ventum, you have to count over 30 minutes one way to get to the closest airport with ILS at which you can practice ILS approaches, that is EPLL; yes, EPWA is closer but they rarely allow student IR flights;
- Bartolini owns their Tecnam P2006T, Ventum only leases theirs;
- accommodation in Lodz is cheaper than in Warsaw;
- as "matalice" wrote - there is an IKEA quite close to the Bartolini FTO - a 3 meal tasty course will really cost you 3-4EUR;
- flight time - Ventum counts your SE flight time as 1.15x what moto-hour-meter shows; @ Bartolini it is what "portos8" wrote; also you have to take into account that Bartolini is right by the EPLL runway whereas @ EPBC it takes few minutes before you taxi to the runway; for any training that requires flying the airport circuits - at EPLL the traffic pattern takes around 6 minutes because you fly really close to the airport, at EPBC it takes about 10 minutes because the pattern is organized in a way to go around a housing district; overall, it extends your PPL(A) training by at least 3-5h;
- I found commuting to EPLL much easier than to EPBC; moreover, at EPBC when you get out of tram (the only one that gets you close to the airport gate) you have to walk around 10 minutes to get to the hangar where Ventum is located; you can also commute by bus, but then you have to walk about 1km to get to the airport gate and another 1km to get to the hangar;
Captain Mainwaring - yes, you are right that Bartolini charges international students more, but it is not 15%; f.i. C152 for Polish speaking students - 490PLN, for others - 123EUR which at the actual rate is 502PLN - only 2% more; Tecnam P2006T - 1150PLN/290EUR = 1183PLN = <3% more; the difference is based on the exchange rate of PLN/EUR - currently it is 4.08PLN/EUR; at the time you wrote your post - 20/02/12 it was 4.18PLN/EUR which means they did charge 5% more; I paid much more at Ventum - it ranged up to 50% more than Poles paid;
that's pretty much what I observed when I trained at both schools; I'll write an update if I can think of anything else;
I forgot to write that, if you are thinking of going to Ventum for a "0-ATPL" program - please be aware that (out of the students that came to Ventum for that program) NONE, I repeat - NONE, finished it; I was told that about 15 students started it since early 2011 and there wasn't even a single one that finished it. All of them (except few that just started) do not continue their training at Ventum anymore.
Moreover, Air Campus lost (one f the investors repossessed it) one of their simulators couple of months ago (A320) - vide Aéroports de Lyon vole au secours d and the CEO of Ventum Air still offers TR on that simulator...
that's all for now... stay tuned for more updates, TOLIP-LPTA
Maybe somebody knows which airfields used during ME-IR and CPL training in Bartolini Air? EPLL of course, but maybe others also? EPWA for example? I'll go there in the middle of January to get ME-IR/CPL training and if somebody could give me some info about mentioned trainings I'll be very happy (I mean what kind of instrument approaches are trained, which airfields, what kind of holdings, maybe some specific issues for Poland FIR, description and feedback about skill-test, etc.)
I'm just wondering why negative posts about Ventum Air are written by users with just less than 15-20 messages... In this case we have an user with just 2 posts I have sympathy for Ventum Air if all those negative posts on PPRuNe so far have been posted by the same individual person.