Professional Pilot Training (includes ground studies)A forum for those on the steep path to that coveted professional licence. Whether studying for the written exams, training for the flight tests or building experience here's where you can hang out.
I would like to add that I did post here about the insurance situation and possible lack of insurance.
In the possible scenario the student and instructor will be paying their own bills for their medical treatment. Remember this when you consider a school - ask them about their insurance.
There is no requirment to have minimum insurance by the FAA or US government - so if any school says they have what is required it does not protect you at all!
Due to liable laws however and the owners willingness to take legal action my posts were removed.
If the poor sod in that crash didn't take out the renters insurance they will be in difficulties even though the accident seems like it had nothing to do with them.
I could never quite grasp how it was the students problem if there was an incident on a dual flight as the student isn't PIC but apparently it is a huge problem.
Although with a name of Augustine Stewart I doud't very much if its a UK pilot and if local they will be in a better position to argue the point.
mad_jock; I am confused - surely if the flight was dual, as far as insurers are concerned, isn't the student PAX and therefore covered for all outcomes?
rmcb things are different over in the states and what to us is logical isn't what happens.
The insurance is different in the US compared to the UK for flight training. I personally didn't purchase any extra insurance which was offered because it was so expensive.
On returning after finishing PPL and hour building etc I discovered that the medical insurance I had would have been void if I had an accident, I would have been liable for I think it was $10 000 excess of the hull damage. This wasn't just OBA at the time.
To actually get insurance that would have been valid for flight training medically and also renters insurance to bring the excess down to something sensible like $500 excess. It would have made the whole exercise of training and hour building in the states be more expensive than the UK when you added in HOTAC and flights etc. But those were the days of Welshpool.
You wouldn't believe the raft of paper work you get given on your first day at the sausage factorys and now that they have you trapped with a visa it must be even worse than pre 9/11
I like the term madjock used...sausage factory... What comes out looks right, smells right, and tastes right, but you don't know what went in it while making it, nor do you necessarily want to know
They do a heap of hours flying there so although you see a crash there every year or so
Really? There are lots of places that do "heaps of flying"; without the "incidents". NTSB Aviation Database Query Page Search in the last 10 years with Ormond Beach Aviation in the word string. Interesting results to say the least.
EASA is a "pilot factory" just like many other out there, such as Ari-Ben Aviator, OFT, ATP, NAC and so on. Why do we like them? They are fast, good value for the money, do not baby-sit you and give you the ratings and licenses you need in the most efficient manner possible. I did my PPL there in 21 days in 2005 and paid a record low of 3,000 sterling. Then hour building (50) a few months later, then integrated JAA ATP with FAA CFII/MEI ratings. It was fun and I got what I paid for. In fact, I finished so fast that I even got a $12k refund from them before I left. And I say to everyone who wants to try this place: if you are not going to give this course a 110% attention, dedication and focus, then you will not get through this program. They will not baby-sit you. All the theoretical knowledge is 95% self-study and is completely up to you. If you fail your exams they are not going to lose their sleep over it, be warned. However, if you are serious and adhere to approx 3 hours of flying, 1-2 hours of one to one briefings with instructor (15-20 mins before and after the flight) and study until midnight EVERY DAY, you should be okay. In my class, everyone who was doing this, passed. Everyone who treated this place like a theme park, hit Razzles (local night club) 3 times a week and expected their FI to hold their hand throughout the training, failed. Take a note and beware of your own limitations, not the flight school. All flight schools of this price range are EXACTLY THE SAME.
By the way, want a quality slow-paced non-pilot-factory flight training course with a lot of ground school, lectures, baby-sittings and hand-holdings? Try Embry-Riddle (15 mins drive from EASA). They charge $175k for the same pro-pilot program and it takes 4 years (well you also get a BSc in Aeronautics). Make your choice.
This is exactly the thread I was hoping I'd stumble across when searching for feedback about EASA flight school. However, it hasn't done much to reassure me.
I've started my PPL course here in England and have done a fair few hours and a few exams but other commitments in my life (along with bad weather) have got in the way and my lessons have been irregular and disjointed. So, I've decided to finish up in sunny USA!
I've got to admit that the only reason I'm attracted to EASA is its prices, but I do fear "you buy cheap, you buy twice". I'd rather spend a bit more and have a safer and more enjoyable experience. Couple this with the mixed reviews I have read, I'm not full of confidence.
All this being said, I'm fortunate enough to be in a postion where I'll be visiting Florida at the end of August and will be visiting some of the flight schools too. I'm acutely aware, however, that it'll all be glossy when they're giving me a tour so I'll be keeping my feet on the ground as they deliver their sales pitches.
When I return, I'll post up my findings and let people know where I have chosen and why.
I hope this helps a few people who are in a similar situation to myself!
I don't recommend for PPL unless time and money are irrelevant.
Not happy. Not long back and needless to say I don’t have my PPL. I’m still undecided as to whether I was foolish to believe the advert claiming 21 days or not.
Most of those who did get their licenses were there for at least 4 weeks (emphasis on the ‘at least’) .The thing that makes me angry though is the fact that it is hugely possible to do it in 21 days however that was only a concern of my own not theirs, they don’t seem to appreciate the costs over and above the package price, the 17 days off work the extra days to fly to London for the Visa, all the extra fees here and there, they’re in no hurry what so ever to get you done.
I’m sure there are times of the year where the weather plays a part in not getting to fly but in my case and I’m sure the majority of cases is you just don’t average enough hours per day. I arrived on a Saturday expecting to fly Monday, it happened to be the Tuesday (I’ll call Day 1) I flew (1.7 hrs), Day 2 (1.5hrs), Day 3 (0hrs), Day 4 (1.6hrs), Day 5 (2.3hrs), Day 6 (0hrs), Day 7 (0.7hrs), Day 8 (1.9 hrs). I’d been there 10 days and I never got so much as a measly 10 hrs Why so few?
Before arriving I was assured I would be averaging about 3.5 hrs a day, weather permitting but little did I know the weather would be the least of my worries. The fact you don’t fly Sundays is an added nuisance as the instructors have a day off. You can fly solo Sundays but given the fact you only do 10 hrs solo, not having an instructor for the remainder is a significant loss. So how can they fulfil their end of the deal, deal being you pay them money they give you what they advertise, more instructors and more aircraft. There isn’t enough of either.
I went to the school every day in the hope I could snatch a free instructor to try to fly more as the flying conditions most of the time were perfect, but more often than not there weren’t any available. If there was there weren’t any planes. Everyday being there was just one big worry, “how the hell am I going to finish in time?” I have a few regrets in my time but trusting Flyeasa is quite a notable one.
Before going I would liked to have known more of the facts, I thought the only thing that would prevent me from completing in the time would be the weather so I made sure I went at an advised time of year oblivious to the fact that their resources were going to be my biggest obstacle. I now have to continue over here having only flown 36 hrs in Florida I’ll now have to fork out between £1.5K and £2.5K to finish which defeats the whole purpose of Flyeasa in the first place.
Any questions, I’d be happy to answer. Sorry Flyeasa, I don’t like being a ‘Judas’ but me getting my PPL means a great deal and I wished I knew before beginning the process just how unlike a bed of roses my trip would be. I’m not bitter about the whole trip however, until going I’d never met anyone who shares my ambitions of wanting to fly so being surrounded with likeminded people is a great experience in itself.
I arrived on a Saturday expecting to fly Monday, it happened to be the Tuesday (I’ll call Day 1)
Had you completed your TSA fingerprint submission in your home country before you arrived in the US and received approval to commence training? If not - then you cannot simply arrive on a Saturday and expect to fly. You have to wait for the TSA to formally advise the Flight School that you can commence. That can take 3-5 days.
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Before arriving I was assured I would be averaging about 3.5 hrs a day,
To average 3.5 hours a day would be hard work and can be extremely difficult and tiring for a new student to absorb. To complete in 21 days - you only need around 2 hours a day of training as your solo cross country's would cover the additional.
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Before going I would liked to have known more of the facts,
20/20 hindsight. You need to do your due diligence before trusting your cash with anybody. Had you completed all the written exams before arriving in the US?
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I wished I knew before beginning the process just how unlike a bed of roses my trip would be.
Sorry but that falls fair and square on your shoulders.
I hadn't dealt with the TSA forms before hand no. I wasn't made aware I could have but to be honest starting the day later than I expected wasn't much of a killer and I perhaps shouldn't have even mentioned that as compared to my low average of hours per day it was quite insignificant. 2 hrs a day I'd have been delighted with, the fact I thought it was 3.5 before going was all the convincing and reassurance I needed.
I say I wish I new the facts before going but I really only mean one fact, being, it's a slim chance of getting it done as advertised.
I'm not trying to stop anyone from going, the only thing I didn't like about the school is that I didn't get it done in the time they said, if they stated 4 weeks rather than 3 then at least I could have made a better decision. The price is also a bit misleading and the fact that I never got a penny back given it was their fault rather than mine is what's gotten my back up a little.
The only people I would deter is those who are on a tight budget and time scale. Those who don't mind adding £X amount and allowing for the likely eventuality of an added week or more then I'm sure they'll enjoy it, sadly it was too much of a stress for me to. I didn't do all my exams before going but had studied and was as good as ready for them, I wouldn't say that affected the outcome of my trip as I was still available at a moments notice to fly.
I would have rather had them done though so I could have focused more on the "Flying Training" book (which would be my recommendation to others) as there is enough in that to keep you busy.
It was my lack of hours however that let me down not my struggling with any exams.
First post but I have been addicted to this forum!
JimmyAnonymous, What was the state of the aircraft whilst you were out there? Also how did it feel to come back and fly in uk airspace did you get into the flow easy enough?
Sorry for all the questions but im due to go out in November and I have been reading all of the bad comments before this and worrying. Also I have racked up about 20 hours over here so do you think I will be able to get it done in the amount of time advertised?
To average 3.5 hours a day would be hard work and can be extremely difficult and tiring for a new student to absorb. To complete in 21 days - you only need around 2 hours a day of training as your solo cross country's would cover the additional.
The flight time is usually not the problem. 3 hrs a day for 15 days is 45 hrs. That is only two 1.5 hour flights spread out over a day. 15 plus two days off makes 17 plus one day for the skills test makes 18 so you can have three "weather" days. Retaining all the info for the written tests or an oral is more of a challenge as everybody likes to fly at that stage and nobody likes to study.
In the case of JimmyA he was clearly not flying enough to make the above schedule.
Day 01: 2:50, total 02:50 Day 02: 4:00, total 06:50 Day 03: 5:50, total 12:40 Day 04: 2:00, total 14:40 Day 05: 2:15, total 16:55 Day 06: 5:10, total 22:05 Day 07: 4:00, total 26:05 Day 08: 2:00, total 28:05 Day 09: 1:45, total 29:50 Day 10: 0:00 Day 11: 4:40, total 34:30 Day 12: 4:00, total 38:30 Day 13: 0:00 Day 14: 0:00 Day 15: 1:35, total 40:05 Day 16: 2:15, total 42:20 Day 17: 3:30, total 45:50
So it is entirely possible to complete in well under three weeks... But you have to push [them and yourself] to get the flying scheduled and done and its tiring... Fortunately the "gap" days in the middle and at the end allowed for some study time...
I would think so, without trying to sound like an expert. Given that you all ready have a fair amount done then I gather you’ll just need those extra hours to bridge the gap and that amount of hours should be doable in the time. As for flying back here, I’ve only had one flight (lesson) since, I’m left skint but other than being unfamiliar with the area and the RT I don’t feel there will be much trouble acclimatising. I don’t know if you intend doing the exams before going but if you can manage I would suggest you do. I would have liked to have gone and just focused solely on getting to grips with all the manoeuvres and emergency checks so that the time in the air wasn’t wasted with what could have been taken care of on the ground. Any spare time, you can devote to the begging that you may be required to do to fly. I don’t believe that is necessarily the answer though, looking at EastMids’ hours brings a tear to my eye but I can’t help but thinking they must have been in the right place at the right time, I done my fair share of pushing but when there are no instructors to take you up there’s not much that can be done about that, I felt I did all I could. But yeah, the evidence speaks for itself that it's not impossible (just improbable), that’s the only justification I have for taking the gamble in the first place. The aircraft, there are about 4 or 5 PA 28s and 2 C150s, I don’t think anyone has a nice thing to say about the Cessnas and are mainly used by hour builders if not entirely. The Pipers, I just don’t think there are enough per student but you can’t help grow to love them and I know I’m not alone on that. Condition wise I don’t have a lot to compare them to but they seem perfectly capable (the Pipers that is). Also not all instructors are eligible to fly the Cessna due to weight restrictions, there were only 2 when I was there and I think they also had the most students between them. That mixed in with their commitments with ‘College’ you’ll be hard pushed to get squeezed in to a reasonable schedule . That goes for the majority of the FIs but I have no hard feelings against them, they are just doing their thing but I feel that the amount of students coming and going should warrant the school to take control and hire more Full-Time FIs, I would expect nothing less really.
Anyway I’m a little bit jealous Flyingthedream, the fact you’re not starting from scratch I would think will work in your favour and I reckon you’ll get it no problem. You’ll certainly have your PPL before I do.
Last edited by JimmyAnonymous; 8th Aug 2012 at 15:24.
Thank you very much for your reply Jimmyanonymous. Oh that's a shame you cannot fly! I'm sure you will be up there before long . Thank you for your advice about acclimatising to the UK procedures that's put my mind a bit more at ease!
Yeah I was intending to do my exams before I go as I have read the advice before saying do them before you get out there. Ah well I hope that I won't have to beg too much but if I have to then I sure will. I'm only 18 so I'm going out there for an experience as well as to learn to fly. If it all goes wrong then il just come back and finish off and that way I know not to do my CPL/IR out there.
Thanks very much for your advice on the aircraft I think that I may try and upgrade from the Cessna to the piper then because it seems like the odds of getting it done with only 2 instructors are stacked against you tbf! I totally agree with you about the FI situation they are offering full time courses so they should have full time staff!
Lastly thank you for the links you have provided me with they are very good and will be using them in detail.
. Thank you for your advice about acclimatising to the UK procedures that's put my mind a bit more at ease! 
