Help! Son wants to be a pilot.
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Help! Son wants to be a pilot.
Hi. Firstly, Please excuse my complete lack of knowledge. My son has wanted to be a pilot since he was 5, he is now 15 and starting to look more seriously at his options. I have made a few enquiries because I like to interfere and I don't want him to end up with a mountain of debt particularly if he's chosen the wrong route. My husband and I would like to help but we aren't millionaires. I have tried to perhaps steer him in a slightly different direction because of the cost of the training but he's not falling for it 
I have been told that his options would be limited if he went the modular route and that qualified pilots are having to pay for more training just to get a job!
Any advice would be gratefully received.
Thanks in advance.
I have been told that his options would be limited if he went the modular route and that qualified pilots are having to pay for more training just to get a job!
Any advice would be gratefully received.
Thanks in advance.
Hovering AND talking
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I have been told that his options would be limited if he went the modular route
and that qualified pilots are having to pay for more training just to get a job!
Cheers
Whirls
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Wants to be a pilot does he? Yes you are in trouble madam. Try not steer him away from it, as he may get worse. Try and encourage him a little then try and get someone to show you and him, the results of the broken dreams, the carnage, the broken marriages. Women just dont understand aviation! Etc., etc.
In all seriousness the greatest asset he can have is the drive and determination. If he has that he will get there, one way or other. Good fun for a while but if he is after money he wont make a lot but it beats working for a living
Tell him to stay at school and further his eduction, then have a go at the military route. If he dont make it there, take the other route of course.
In all seriousness the greatest asset he can have is the drive and determination. If he has that he will get there, one way or other. Good fun for a while but if he is after money he wont make a lot but it beats working for a living
Tell him to stay at school and further his eduction, then have a go at the military route. If he dont make it there, take the other route of course.
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My advice as he is still only 15 would to be start the PPL course and continue schooling, he might not enjoy flying and at least you can find out yes or no whilst still at school. If he enjoys it, he will have the first part of course out the way and can continue building hours and experience whilst still in education, he can then look at what options are open to him further down the line, sponsorships or mentored schemes may be available again at that time.
I see your in Hampshire, there are a number of schools at Bournemouth Airport that might be worth a visit.
Bournemouth Commercial Flight Training. Commercial flight training in the UK. CPL, ATPL, Ground School, Flying Instructor and Examiner courses.
EPTA
Professional Air Training: Professional flight training school
I see your in Hampshire, there are a number of schools at Bournemouth Airport that might be worth a visit.
Bournemouth Commercial Flight Training. Commercial flight training in the UK. CPL, ATPL, Ground School, Flying Instructor and Examiner courses.
EPTA
Professional Air Training: Professional flight training school
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Before you get into the nitty gritty of choosing training routes and flight schools (and therefore commiting yourself to a lot of expenditure) I would first substantiate a couple of things.
What has he done so far in the way of following his dream? Is he an air cadet? Has he studied aviation in any meaningful way? Has he any work expereince in the field? Any trial lessons, or visits to flying schools?
Has he had any aptitude tests? If not GAPAN (just google GAPAN) might be able to help you out with an aptitude test and they do scholarships as well, so a good contact to make in any event.
Whether or not any of that applies, I would kick off with a five hour starter pack, which any good school should offer at a reasonable price. This is long enough to get an idea of what training will involve, but won't cost you an arm and a leg if things don't work out.
Don't be afraid to set the agenda when you are negotiationg your requirements with a flying school - it's a buyers market.
What has he done so far in the way of following his dream? Is he an air cadet? Has he studied aviation in any meaningful way? Has he any work expereince in the field? Any trial lessons, or visits to flying schools?
Has he had any aptitude tests? If not GAPAN (just google GAPAN) might be able to help you out with an aptitude test and they do scholarships as well, so a good contact to make in any event.
Whether or not any of that applies, I would kick off with a five hour starter pack, which any good school should offer at a reasonable price. This is long enough to get an idea of what training will involve, but won't cost you an arm and a leg if things don't work out.
Don't be afraid to set the agenda when you are negotiationg your requirements with a flying school - it's a buyers market.
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Flyingmama,
A similar question was asked recently and this response below from Bealzebub is informative.
This is the thread that the above extract came from: http://www.pprune.org/professional-p...ude-tests.html
The following suggestion (in that thread) from Redsnail is also a good one. The Class 1 medical is another important step that I'm not sure has been mentioned.
Initial JAR Class 1 (Professional Pilot) Medical Examination | Medical | Safety Regulation
The price can be found on the website above; expensive but necessary.
A similar question was asked recently and this response below from Bealzebub is informative.
Originally Posted by Bealzebub
Hello Ian,
I will try and give you a qualified answer, speaking as a parent (like yourself) of a son who is going through commercial flight training. I also have 30 years experience as an airline pilot, and have spent over 10 years flying with pilots who have come through some of these programmes.
The aptitude tests are designed to assess "basic" aptitude. In themselves they are no guarantee of success, but are used to weed out weaker applicants, and where there is a competition element for a limited number of places, they are a tool in arriving at a decision. They are certainly no guarantee of future success and shouldn't be viewed as such. Normally these tests are used in conjunction with personality assessments by way of group exercises and interviews. The hand/eye co-ordination tests are usually run such that they hopefully show an improvement in the learning curve, either as the test is being conducted or as it is repeated.
All of these flight training establishments are commercial enterprises. As such (and like any other commercial business) they only survive by making a profit. In turn that only happens if they continue to entice customers through the door. You only have to look at the advertisements that pop up on websites such as this one and elsewhere, to realize that there is a need to advertise their products and services. Having said that, I am in no way suggesting that the fact that competition in a very difficult marketplace makes these companies necessary lacking in some way.
Whilst I completely understand your question and concern, I would say that it would be better to move the focus. When looking at these training establishments, give serious consideration to who their customers are. For example are they simply selling their product to potential trainees (and their backers,) or do they also have corporate customers who buy their product?
In the case of the latter, they need to ensure that the product they sell is something that the corporate customer is happy to buy. In other words their survival is to some considerable extent dependent on their reputation within the wider industry, rather than simply enticing the naive and hopeful with glossy pictures of airliners.
There is a broad range of providers out there, and they tend to fall into 3 distinct categories:
Firstly, there are the established training schools who have recognised programmes and a history of airline partnerships. These schools are usually expensive but have a track record of achievement that you can use as the basis for making your own decision. In many cases they have good associations with airline companies who may from time to time be looking to recruit cadet pilots. That said there is absolutely no guarantee of such a placement, and in recent years such placements have been at best, very thin on the ground.
Secondly, there are the "Florida farms" many of which are probably undeserving of such a label, and many of which are outside the state of Florida. These are training establishments that usually offer a cut price route to a licence by utilising the lower cost base in a particular country to compete on a price sticker for a product. Many pilots have achieved their ambition through these establishments by utilising them as a module or stepping stone to achieve various licences, ratings and experience. Many are good in that they provide what they say on the tin, but conversely they often seem to attract the most criticism by a combination of sometimes poor service and unrealistic marketing, coupled with their ability to also attract people with unrealistic expectations.
Thirdly, There are the "Puddlewick-in-the-marsh" establishments, that were a flying club last year, but have now branched out into offering an "ATPL" ground school and flight training on their under-utilized fleet of club aircraft (and a twin!) Again, used with realistic expectations, these training schools may tick all the right boxes for somebody who is using them to achieve a modular progression towards the requisite licences.
The problem comes in the frequent merging of the distinction between these various groups. If the end product is a young aspiring pilot with a fresh CPL/IR and 200 odd hours who believes that airlines will be clamouring to employ them for their enthusiasm and skill, they are more likely to be disappointed in the case of the last two. That is not to say they are necessarily any more likely to be snapped up in the first group, however those airlines that do offer cadet programmes, tend to recruit a product that they have some input and involvment with. Indeed for an airline looking to recruit anybody at this level of experience, it is virtually a prerequisite.
There is no doubt that this a serious level of investment and commitment. I would have to say that in all honesty if you are providing the finance, you should accept that at this point there is a reasonable risk that you should be prepared to have to write off any expectation of seeing it returned. In any event you should most definetaly be prepared for a significant delay in any return upon completion.
In summary the market is very weak. Competition is intense and expectations are often wholly unrealistic. That said, if you go in with your eyes open and don't place yourself in any financial jeopardy as a result of what might not happen, then it is really a case of seeking out a method and route that you are both happy with.
Hope that helps a little?
I will try and give you a qualified answer, speaking as a parent (like yourself) of a son who is going through commercial flight training. I also have 30 years experience as an airline pilot, and have spent over 10 years flying with pilots who have come through some of these programmes.
The aptitude tests are designed to assess "basic" aptitude. In themselves they are no guarantee of success, but are used to weed out weaker applicants, and where there is a competition element for a limited number of places, they are a tool in arriving at a decision. They are certainly no guarantee of future success and shouldn't be viewed as such. Normally these tests are used in conjunction with personality assessments by way of group exercises and interviews. The hand/eye co-ordination tests are usually run such that they hopefully show an improvement in the learning curve, either as the test is being conducted or as it is repeated.
All of these flight training establishments are commercial enterprises. As such (and like any other commercial business) they only survive by making a profit. In turn that only happens if they continue to entice customers through the door. You only have to look at the advertisements that pop up on websites such as this one and elsewhere, to realize that there is a need to advertise their products and services. Having said that, I am in no way suggesting that the fact that competition in a very difficult marketplace makes these companies necessary lacking in some way.
Whilst I completely understand your question and concern, I would say that it would be better to move the focus. When looking at these training establishments, give serious consideration to who their customers are. For example are they simply selling their product to potential trainees (and their backers,) or do they also have corporate customers who buy their product?
In the case of the latter, they need to ensure that the product they sell is something that the corporate customer is happy to buy. In other words their survival is to some considerable extent dependent on their reputation within the wider industry, rather than simply enticing the naive and hopeful with glossy pictures of airliners.
There is a broad range of providers out there, and they tend to fall into 3 distinct categories:
Firstly, there are the established training schools who have recognised programmes and a history of airline partnerships. These schools are usually expensive but have a track record of achievement that you can use as the basis for making your own decision. In many cases they have good associations with airline companies who may from time to time be looking to recruit cadet pilots. That said there is absolutely no guarantee of such a placement, and in recent years such placements have been at best, very thin on the ground.
Secondly, there are the "Florida farms" many of which are probably undeserving of such a label, and many of which are outside the state of Florida. These are training establishments that usually offer a cut price route to a licence by utilising the lower cost base in a particular country to compete on a price sticker for a product. Many pilots have achieved their ambition through these establishments by utilising them as a module or stepping stone to achieve various licences, ratings and experience. Many are good in that they provide what they say on the tin, but conversely they often seem to attract the most criticism by a combination of sometimes poor service and unrealistic marketing, coupled with their ability to also attract people with unrealistic expectations.
Thirdly, There are the "Puddlewick-in-the-marsh" establishments, that were a flying club last year, but have now branched out into offering an "ATPL" ground school and flight training on their under-utilized fleet of club aircraft (and a twin!) Again, used with realistic expectations, these training schools may tick all the right boxes for somebody who is using them to achieve a modular progression towards the requisite licences.
The problem comes in the frequent merging of the distinction between these various groups. If the end product is a young aspiring pilot with a fresh CPL/IR and 200 odd hours who believes that airlines will be clamouring to employ them for their enthusiasm and skill, they are more likely to be disappointed in the case of the last two. That is not to say they are necessarily any more likely to be snapped up in the first group, however those airlines that do offer cadet programmes, tend to recruit a product that they have some input and involvment with. Indeed for an airline looking to recruit anybody at this level of experience, it is virtually a prerequisite.
There is no doubt that this a serious level of investment and commitment. I would have to say that in all honesty if you are providing the finance, you should accept that at this point there is a reasonable risk that you should be prepared to have to write off any expectation of seeing it returned. In any event you should most definetaly be prepared for a significant delay in any return upon completion.
In summary the market is very weak. Competition is intense and expectations are often wholly unrealistic. That said, if you go in with your eyes open and don't place yourself in any financial jeopardy as a result of what might not happen, then it is really a case of seeking out a method and route that you are both happy with.
Hope that helps a little?
The following suggestion (in that thread) from Redsnail is also a good one. The Class 1 medical is another important step that I'm not sure has been mentioned.
Initial JAR Class 1 (Professional Pilot) Medical Examination | Medical | Safety Regulation
The price can be found on the website above; expensive but necessary.
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I will refrain from giving advice on the topic, as my own personal biases and experiences may and will not apply to others situations, including your sons future.
But, I will say it is a very difficult industry, and flying, is only a small part of being an airline pilot. An airline pilot is not only a career, it is a lifestyle. Not always an easy one. Not always a well paying one. And not always a rewarding one. There are plenty of examples of people out there who have sacrificed so much, and got very little in return. While on the other hand there are those who were at the right place, at the right time, and couldnt be happier. No telling where who will end up. Somewhat of a lottery, draw a number.
Of course there is other type of flying then airline flying as well, for example corporate. But that is the most popular route.
It isnt like you see it in the movies, with layovers in exotic locations, huge salaries, half the month off, surrounded by beautiful flight attendants (well not for the most part, anyways).. So if he does go through with it, he has to be in it for the airplanes, and for the flying, or he will be disappointed.
But even with everything that is wrong with the industry, I would still do it again.
The flying is great, the industry sucks.
But, I will say it is a very difficult industry, and flying, is only a small part of being an airline pilot. An airline pilot is not only a career, it is a lifestyle. Not always an easy one. Not always a well paying one. And not always a rewarding one. There are plenty of examples of people out there who have sacrificed so much, and got very little in return. While on the other hand there are those who were at the right place, at the right time, and couldnt be happier. No telling where who will end up. Somewhat of a lottery, draw a number.
Of course there is other type of flying then airline flying as well, for example corporate. But that is the most popular route.
It isnt like you see it in the movies, with layovers in exotic locations, huge salaries, half the month off, surrounded by beautiful flight attendants (well not for the most part, anyways).. So if he does go through with it, he has to be in it for the airplanes, and for the flying, or he will be disappointed.
But even with everything that is wrong with the industry, I would still do it again.
The flying is great, the industry sucks.
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Integrated = waste of money and Soviet Union
Modular = cheaper and freedom
So Flyingmama, I'd suggest you to send your son in USA in a good flying school like Skymates (the cheapest but at the same level of the others!), Flight Safety Academy, European Flight Training, or whichever school in USA, then become a Flight Instructor to start to work flying, to make experience and to gain a bit of money, or he could also go in Africa and make some Bush Flying experience, a well known route.
For the moment he has only to study hard at school, and after graduated he could try to apply for a cadet program like the Cathay Pacific's one.
Modular = cheaper and freedom
So Flyingmama, I'd suggest you to send your son in USA in a good flying school like Skymates (the cheapest but at the same level of the others!), Flight Safety Academy, European Flight Training, or whichever school in USA, then become a Flight Instructor to start to work flying, to make experience and to gain a bit of money, or he could also go in Africa and make some Bush Flying experience, a well known route.
For the moment he has only to study hard at school, and after graduated he could try to apply for a cadet program like the Cathay Pacific's one.
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Mama,
I had a girlfriend who once told me "you never go to work", you always say "sorry, I can't cause tomorrow I have to fly".
As doubleu-anker says, drive and determination is what counts and that should never be discouraged in any endeavor.
By far the cheapest and perhaps the easiest place to do this is the U.S. I'm not saying the best but one can maybe move into an instructor position to really learn and build time.
Baring a depression and complete implosion of air travel, demographically the future looks bright as the majority of people on these boards will have retired.
Take a look at www.airlinepilotcentral.com and see what the retirement rates are for the major U.S. carriers which most likely mirror global rates.
By the way, I have a daughter the same age who wants to do the same, I give her the same advice.
I had a girlfriend who once told me "you never go to work", you always say "sorry, I can't cause tomorrow I have to fly".
As doubleu-anker says, drive and determination is what counts and that should never be discouraged in any endeavor.
By far the cheapest and perhaps the easiest place to do this is the U.S. I'm not saying the best but one can maybe move into an instructor position to really learn and build time.
Baring a depression and complete implosion of air travel, demographically the future looks bright as the majority of people on these boards will have retired.
Take a look at www.airlinepilotcentral.com and see what the retirement rates are for the major U.S. carriers which most likely mirror global rates.
By the way, I have a daughter the same age who wants to do the same, I give her the same advice.
Apologies for the length of this post.
It's all about timing. Global airline growth combined with pilot retirements predict a demand of 17,000 pilots per year for the next 20 years. The current situation, however, is dire.
The pool of unemployed pilots continues to build, meaning that when airlines do start to recruit in earnest once again, it will be sometime until the pool is diminished to the extent that a graduate fresh out of flight school can be confident is securing a job within a short timeframe. When doing your sums therefore, you must take into account the fact that your son, once graduated, could be without a job for quite a period of time.
Integrated or modular?
In the current environment, neither route will make your son more employable, for the simple reason that if he were to graduate tomorrow then his chances of securing a job would be minimal, to put it lightly.
Integrated has the advantage of being a fast-track training route (approx 18 months) and airlines like integrated graduates given they can be assured of a consistency of training. That is why certain airlines, such as BA, will publicly state that they only employ low hours (graduate) pilots off integrated courses following recommendation from schools. This is indeed the case in times when the pool of pilots seeking work is over-flowing (such as now). However, in times of high demand and low supply, the training route becomes a moot point, and airlines will recruit graduates irrespective of the training route they have chosen.
Integrated has the distinct disadvantage of being more expensive than modular, primarily because a lump sum will have to be paid up front, and so unless you have the cash to hand expect to pay as much as £20,000 interest on bank loans. The total cost from zero experiene to an airline job on an integrated training route in the UK has been put at £130,000 currently, which I will breakdown shortly.
Meantime, the modular route is much cheaper, as one can pick and choose the cheapest schools and train at a rate that finances allow - meaning hefty interest payments can be avoided. The traditional way of doing this is to start with a PPL, then hours build before becoming CPL rated. Following a CPL, many students become instructors in order to avoid having to pay to accrue minimum flight hours experience, before progressing to the instrument rating and MCC. This route traditionally takes anything between 2-3 years.
The gotchas for the modular training route are: First, airlines, in times of low demand, may prefer to look at integrated low hours graduates in preference to low hours modular graduates. This is a contentious subject however and many will disagree. The second potential pitfall concerns the training. Airlines want to see that a pilot has received a consistent level of training, meaning that if you spread your training out between too many budget schools, both in the US and at home, then they will question the standard to which you will have been trained. As with anything in this world, you get what you pay for. It is essential therefore that you research schools thoroughly before signing up to them. This means visiting the schools, talking to the instructors, as well as the slick sales staff, and most importantly, speaking with the students. You should also be extremely careful about paying money up front as unfortunately it is all too common for the smaller flight schools to fail, leaving you stranded and out of pocket in the process – there are a myriad of threads on pprune that will attest to this. Airlines will tend to recommend that the bulk of the training isn't spread out over more than two schools (ignoring PPL).
Now for the £130,000 integrated training price breakdown:
£66,000 school training fees
£6,000 CAA exam and flight test fees
£8,000 living and accommodation costs
£30,000 aircraft type rating
£20,000 loan interest payments
If your son is planning on attending university first, then you may want to factor in £10,000 - £20,000 of university debts as well.
Will your son have to pay for a Type Rating?
Thanks to the avaricious nature of low cost carrier’s HR departments, which are currently being run as profit making centres, the answer is likely to be yes.
How can he avoid having to pay for a Type Rating?
If your son decides that an integrated course is the right option for him, then I would recommend very strongly that he tries to get himself on a mentored scheme. These training schemes are ones where an airline will pre-select a student before they start training. They then mentor them through their training before employing them on graduation. They often include a small amount of funding assistance, although not always, and on most occasions the airline will pay for the type rating, although they will likely bond the pilot to the company for a minimum period of time to offset the risk that the pilot will decamp somewhere else once rated.
What next?
As your son is only 15, I suggest that he does as much as possible over the next few years to increase his knowledge of the world of aviation. Not only will it give him a better grounding in what to expect from a career in aviation – and remember, there are plenty of other jobs in aviation which don’t involve airlines – but it will also demonstrate to his future employers that he has the right level of enthusiasm and drive.
Get him to join a local flying or gliding club. Get a weekend job cleaning aircraft. Join the Air Cadets.
Most importantly, contact the Guild of Air Pilot & Navigators (GAPAN), the Royal Aeronautical Society (RAeS), the British Gliding Association (BGA), the Light Aircraft Association (LAA), the British Microlight Aircraft Association (BMAA), and the Air League, and learn as much as you can about the large number of sponsorships and scholarships available to dedicated and enthusiastic youngsters in the UK.
Best of luck!
jez
It's all about timing. Global airline growth combined with pilot retirements predict a demand of 17,000 pilots per year for the next 20 years. The current situation, however, is dire.
The pool of unemployed pilots continues to build, meaning that when airlines do start to recruit in earnest once again, it will be sometime until the pool is diminished to the extent that a graduate fresh out of flight school can be confident is securing a job within a short timeframe. When doing your sums therefore, you must take into account the fact that your son, once graduated, could be without a job for quite a period of time.
Integrated or modular?
In the current environment, neither route will make your son more employable, for the simple reason that if he were to graduate tomorrow then his chances of securing a job would be minimal, to put it lightly.
Integrated has the advantage of being a fast-track training route (approx 18 months) and airlines like integrated graduates given they can be assured of a consistency of training. That is why certain airlines, such as BA, will publicly state that they only employ low hours (graduate) pilots off integrated courses following recommendation from schools. This is indeed the case in times when the pool of pilots seeking work is over-flowing (such as now). However, in times of high demand and low supply, the training route becomes a moot point, and airlines will recruit graduates irrespective of the training route they have chosen.
Integrated has the distinct disadvantage of being more expensive than modular, primarily because a lump sum will have to be paid up front, and so unless you have the cash to hand expect to pay as much as £20,000 interest on bank loans. The total cost from zero experiene to an airline job on an integrated training route in the UK has been put at £130,000 currently, which I will breakdown shortly.
Meantime, the modular route is much cheaper, as one can pick and choose the cheapest schools and train at a rate that finances allow - meaning hefty interest payments can be avoided. The traditional way of doing this is to start with a PPL, then hours build before becoming CPL rated. Following a CPL, many students become instructors in order to avoid having to pay to accrue minimum flight hours experience, before progressing to the instrument rating and MCC. This route traditionally takes anything between 2-3 years.
The gotchas for the modular training route are: First, airlines, in times of low demand, may prefer to look at integrated low hours graduates in preference to low hours modular graduates. This is a contentious subject however and many will disagree. The second potential pitfall concerns the training. Airlines want to see that a pilot has received a consistent level of training, meaning that if you spread your training out between too many budget schools, both in the US and at home, then they will question the standard to which you will have been trained. As with anything in this world, you get what you pay for. It is essential therefore that you research schools thoroughly before signing up to them. This means visiting the schools, talking to the instructors, as well as the slick sales staff, and most importantly, speaking with the students. You should also be extremely careful about paying money up front as unfortunately it is all too common for the smaller flight schools to fail, leaving you stranded and out of pocket in the process – there are a myriad of threads on pprune that will attest to this. Airlines will tend to recommend that the bulk of the training isn't spread out over more than two schools (ignoring PPL).
Now for the £130,000 integrated training price breakdown:
£66,000 school training fees
£6,000 CAA exam and flight test fees
£8,000 living and accommodation costs
£30,000 aircraft type rating
£20,000 loan interest payments
If your son is planning on attending university first, then you may want to factor in £10,000 - £20,000 of university debts as well.
Will your son have to pay for a Type Rating?
Thanks to the avaricious nature of low cost carrier’s HR departments, which are currently being run as profit making centres, the answer is likely to be yes.
How can he avoid having to pay for a Type Rating?
If your son decides that an integrated course is the right option for him, then I would recommend very strongly that he tries to get himself on a mentored scheme. These training schemes are ones where an airline will pre-select a student before they start training. They then mentor them through their training before employing them on graduation. They often include a small amount of funding assistance, although not always, and on most occasions the airline will pay for the type rating, although they will likely bond the pilot to the company for a minimum period of time to offset the risk that the pilot will decamp somewhere else once rated.
What next?
As your son is only 15, I suggest that he does as much as possible over the next few years to increase his knowledge of the world of aviation. Not only will it give him a better grounding in what to expect from a career in aviation – and remember, there are plenty of other jobs in aviation which don’t involve airlines – but it will also demonstrate to his future employers that he has the right level of enthusiasm and drive.
Get him to join a local flying or gliding club. Get a weekend job cleaning aircraft. Join the Air Cadets.
Most importantly, contact the Guild of Air Pilot & Navigators (GAPAN), the Royal Aeronautical Society (RAeS), the British Gliding Association (BGA), the Light Aircraft Association (LAA), the British Microlight Aircraft Association (BMAA), and the Air League, and learn as much as you can about the large number of sponsorships and scholarships available to dedicated and enthusiastic youngsters in the UK.
Best of luck!
jez
All of the above suggests (and I agree) that training now is a gamble. The advice all gamblers hate, but it's good, is 'Only gamble what you can afford to lose'. Can you/he afford it?
The other thing that you get a sense of on here is that it's money wasted. The alternative view is that you get a lot for your dosh: all that training and a little experience as well. I think you are entitled to a licence for the money you spend, not a job. Others moan a lot.
Just my pitch.
CG
The other thing that you get a sense of on here is that it's money wasted. The alternative view is that you get a lot for your dosh: all that training and a little experience as well. I think you are entitled to a licence for the money you spend, not a job. Others moan a lot.
Just my pitch.
CG
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Help! Son wants to be a pilot.
Hi. Firstly, Please excuse my complete lack of knowledge. My son has wanted to be a pilot since he was 5, he is now 15 and starting to look more seriously at his options.
Hi. Firstly, Please excuse my complete lack of knowledge. My son has wanted to be a pilot since he was 5, he is now 15 and starting to look more seriously at his options.
Any advice would be gratefully received.
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Nice one Bruce!! 
Worth remembering, the boom and bust cycle. The bust is still with us. The cycle from memory is about 8 years.
Apart from natural attrition, during bust a lot of prospective trainees will shy away from aviation. will will hear "Why train when there are no jobs?" I think that is wrong advise. By the time one begins training, on average it is three? years before they are fully licensed. I think the boom will come. 3 years maybe more until it is with us.
Worth remembering, the boom and bust cycle. The bust is still with us. The cycle from memory is about 8 years.
Apart from natural attrition, during bust a lot of prospective trainees will shy away from aviation. will will hear "Why train when there are no jobs?" I think that is wrong advise. By the time one begins training, on average it is three? years before they are fully licensed. I think the boom will come. 3 years maybe more until it is with us.
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You will get lots of different opinions on this.
First of all - he needs to find out if flying is really for him.
That means a few hours instruction at the local flight school.
To be honest, there is no real point in getting him started on a PPL at 15.
My advice would be to keep him in school but keep him focused with the odd hour up in the air.
You would be amazed the amount of kids who actually get into a plane and realise that it is not what they imagined it would be.
After his schooling, then you can start looking at doing things step-by-step.
But remember: it all initially boils down to being able to get a Class 1 medical.
If he can't get that......the dream could well be over.
Farrell
First of all - he needs to find out if flying is really for him.
That means a few hours instruction at the local flight school.
To be honest, there is no real point in getting him started on a PPL at 15.
My advice would be to keep him in school but keep him focused with the odd hour up in the air.
You would be amazed the amount of kids who actually get into a plane and realise that it is not what they imagined it would be.
After his schooling, then you can start looking at doing things step-by-step.
But remember: it all initially boils down to being able to get a Class 1 medical.
If he can't get that......the dream could well be over.
Farrell
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Be ready to get an earful of BS when shopping flight schools.
"Experts anticipate a shortage of pilot in 3 years in the industry" - Been hearing that since 2003. The last pilot shortage in the industry was in the summer of 1940.
"We have 90%, 95%, 100% student placement." - Rampie for 3 years at Buffalo doesn't count as 'placement' in my opinion.
"You'll have to pay your type-rating if you want your first job." - That might be true, but it's still 100% BS.
The good news is, it's still very possible to make it if he really wants it. There is also the military option.
"Experts anticipate a shortage of pilot in 3 years in the industry" - Been hearing that since 2003. The last pilot shortage in the industry was in the summer of 1940.
"We have 90%, 95%, 100% student placement." - Rampie for 3 years at Buffalo doesn't count as 'placement' in my opinion.
"You'll have to pay your type-rating if you want your first job." - That might be true, but it's still 100% BS.
The good news is, it's still very possible to make it if he really wants it. There is also the military option.
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flying mom,
if euthanasia isn't option for you, there are couple of points to consider...
your son is 15, by the time he hits 18 and experienced the delights of the opposite sex*, cars, etc the game plan could well have changed. there is hope for you !
however, in the event that his head is not turned by the fairer sex, job prospects that offer financial reward, stability and security you will have your work cut out, so will he.
at the age he is there is still opportunity to gain advantage, physics and mathematics will be of key importance right now as the career does use these subjects considerably (unfortunately second guessing JAA/EASA/ What it will be in future is not an academic subject).
has he looked at the air cadets ? at his age that may be a good start.
also, in all honesty any medical conditions that could preclude a class 1 medical ? eyesight problems, balance problems, any family history of psychosis etc etc.
before you go even thinking about blowing a large amount of money on pursuing a career for him you want to be sure he is going to be able to get a medical and have the academic base to deal with the subject matter and study.
don't push him away from it as DU suggested but be supportive as well as honestly practical about the reality. there are many people that have dropped away from completing their professional licenses, through medical or personal problems, many who have attained them but not found the openings to allow them to pursue the application of their license and many that have gone on to enjoy a good career in the industry.
* in order to be PC compliant the reader is free to substitute 'female', with 'male' or 'trans-gender' or 'Cherie Blair' as applicable.
if euthanasia isn't option for you, there are couple of points to consider...
your son is 15, by the time he hits 18 and experienced the delights of the opposite sex*, cars, etc the game plan could well have changed. there is hope for you !
however, in the event that his head is not turned by the fairer sex, job prospects that offer financial reward, stability and security you will have your work cut out, so will he.
at the age he is there is still opportunity to gain advantage, physics and mathematics will be of key importance right now as the career does use these subjects considerably (unfortunately second guessing JAA/EASA/ What it will be in future is not an academic subject).
has he looked at the air cadets ? at his age that may be a good start.
also, in all honesty any medical conditions that could preclude a class 1 medical ? eyesight problems, balance problems, any family history of psychosis etc etc.
before you go even thinking about blowing a large amount of money on pursuing a career for him you want to be sure he is going to be able to get a medical and have the academic base to deal with the subject matter and study.
don't push him away from it as DU suggested but be supportive as well as honestly practical about the reality. there are many people that have dropped away from completing their professional licenses, through medical or personal problems, many who have attained them but not found the openings to allow them to pursue the application of their license and many that have gone on to enjoy a good career in the industry.
* in order to be PC compliant the reader is free to substitute 'female', with 'male' or 'trans-gender' or 'Cherie Blair' as applicable.
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Make it easy and simple in the start, let him have a class 1 medical, do a PPL - and if still motivated start the ATPL's.
This will not set you back the world, but if he finishes the above, you can start to worry, then you know if he is really motivated. Do modular, forget integrated at the moment, unless you don't mind blowing an extra £40.000.
He is young, and time for a few up and down cycles, and should get the "dream job" in the end.
Do modular, make him get instructor rating, and work himself slowly up the ladder, by his mid 30's he should be well established.
But first do the basics, might be dead in the water already then, class 1 + medical, and do the 14 ATPL ground school exams, won't cost you more than £8000 - £10000.
This will not set you back the world, but if he finishes the above, you can start to worry, then you know if he is really motivated. Do modular, forget integrated at the moment, unless you don't mind blowing an extra £40.000.
He is young, and time for a few up and down cycles, and should get the "dream job" in the end.
Do modular, make him get instructor rating, and work himself slowly up the ladder, by his mid 30's he should be well established.
But first do the basics, might be dead in the water already then, class 1 + medical, and do the 14 ATPL ground school exams, won't cost you more than £8000 - £10000.
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Who knows, by the time the kid gets his ratings, things may have turned around. However, I still wouldn't recommend this as a career.
Best of luck to the parents of the intrepid youngster.
Best of luck to the parents of the intrepid youngster.
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Flyingmama - the kid is 15.
All the advice you read here won't count for diddley squat in 2 years when he's finished school, if he graduates and the world is in the middle of another financial crisis or middle east war, and airlines are failing like flies and pilots are on dole queues everywhere, then obviously attending flying school would be foolhardy in the extreme. First rule of pilot training - timing is everything.
Trust me he DOES need to finish school, with the best grades he can. Obviously the most relevant school subjects are the maths and science ones but it's more important to get good grades in whatever he studies.
(Here's a good idea - get him to study GCSE economics, and then get him to write an essay for YOU as his primary financial backer, detailing his training budget, future earnings and cashflow projections as an airline pilot. Including the scenarios of doing it at a flash integrated school, doing it the small-school modular way, gaining experience via instructing, buying type ratings, etc etc. If that doesn't scare him off nothing will )
At the end of school, he's likely to be 17 or 18. Let me tell you a little secret - the travelling public doesn't actually like seeing spotty teenage adolescents flying their airliners. In my opinion (as a fairly-senior flying instructor), the failure rate of kids in that age group is much higher than those who are a couple years older or in their early 20s.
So, let him go and get a JOB for two or three years. And let him spend his savings, on doing his PPL while he's working and saving that money. It doesn't have to be a career thing, but if he can get aviation industry related work whether it's sweeping hangar floors or even loading bags or something, it's surprising how many useful connections are possible to be made. (Best job of all = pouring pints at some airfield bar where all the airline captains drink at weekends. Guaranteed to make loads of friends in high places and get more advice about the industry than he knows what to do with. It's also sometimes possible for youngsters to work on an ops desk at an aero club, in exchange for free or heavily discounted flying hours.)
As the previous poster "magictiger" suggested, it's possible to knock out the horrible ATPL theory subjects during that time as well, although you really do need to have a PPL first before you try to tackle that lot or it's too much like a foreign language. And of course, if there's options to apply for sponsorships etc during that time, go for it.
After that, your son will find himself in the enviable position of being hopefully 20-21, with maybe a PPL and a hundred hours or so of flying time which HE'S PAID FOR, he's halfway to a CPL, he will have no horrible debts, and have a lot more knowledge of his chosen profession, and the world really will be his oyster. (He will also hopefully have a trade skill that he can fall back on, if it all turns to rats while he's pilot job hunting). If he still wants to be an airline pilot at that stage, then he's proven his commitment sufficiently, that I would suggest that you as a parent can have a lot more confidence in helping him out with loan securities or whatever it is he needs to finish the job.
(As a side not - a lot of crap gets talked on this forum, about applying for the military as a way to get into the cockpit of an airliner, and it's all just that, crap. The people who successfully join the air force are the ones who've been living and breathing and committing their whole lives to being air force pilots from a very young age. The assessors can spot a wannabe-airline-pilot from a million miles away and give them very short shrift.)
It's a hell of a commitment for any parent and if you don't know aviation, it seems like a very confusing and difficult world to plunge into and do the research sometimes. You have, however, found the very best resource in the world right here on this very internet forum, please keep us posted and don't be afraid to ask even the stupidest sounding questions here
All the advice you read here won't count for diddley squat in 2 years when he's finished school, if he graduates and the world is in the middle of another financial crisis or middle east war, and airlines are failing like flies and pilots are on dole queues everywhere, then obviously attending flying school would be foolhardy in the extreme. First rule of pilot training - timing is everything.
Trust me he DOES need to finish school, with the best grades he can. Obviously the most relevant school subjects are the maths and science ones but it's more important to get good grades in whatever he studies.
(Here's a good idea - get him to study GCSE economics, and then get him to write an essay for YOU as his primary financial backer, detailing his training budget, future earnings and cashflow projections as an airline pilot. Including the scenarios of doing it at a flash integrated school, doing it the small-school modular way, gaining experience via instructing, buying type ratings, etc etc. If that doesn't scare him off nothing will
)At the end of school, he's likely to be 17 or 18. Let me tell you a little secret - the travelling public doesn't actually like seeing spotty teenage adolescents flying their airliners. In my opinion (as a fairly-senior flying instructor), the failure rate of kids in that age group is much higher than those who are a couple years older or in their early 20s.
So, let him go and get a JOB for two or three years. And let him spend his savings, on doing his PPL while he's working and saving that money. It doesn't have to be a career thing, but if he can get aviation industry related work whether it's sweeping hangar floors or even loading bags or something, it's surprising how many useful connections are possible to be made. (Best job of all = pouring pints at some airfield bar where all the airline captains drink at weekends. Guaranteed to make loads of friends in high places and get more advice about the industry than he knows what to do with. It's also sometimes possible for youngsters to work on an ops desk at an aero club, in exchange for free or heavily discounted flying hours.)
As the previous poster "magictiger" suggested, it's possible to knock out the horrible ATPL theory subjects during that time as well, although you really do need to have a PPL first before you try to tackle that lot or it's too much like a foreign language. And of course, if there's options to apply for sponsorships etc during that time, go for it.
After that, your son will find himself in the enviable position of being hopefully 20-21, with maybe a PPL and a hundred hours or so of flying time which HE'S PAID FOR, he's halfway to a CPL, he will have no horrible debts, and have a lot more knowledge of his chosen profession, and the world really will be his oyster. (He will also hopefully have a trade skill that he can fall back on, if it all turns to rats while he's pilot job hunting). If he still wants to be an airline pilot at that stage, then he's proven his commitment sufficiently, that I would suggest that you as a parent can have a lot more confidence in helping him out with loan securities or whatever it is he needs to finish the job.
(As a side not - a lot of crap gets talked on this forum, about applying for the military as a way to get into the cockpit of an airliner, and it's all just that, crap. The people who successfully join the air force are the ones who've been living and breathing and committing their whole lives to being air force pilots from a very young age. The assessors can spot a wannabe-airline-pilot from a million miles away and give them very short shrift.)
It's a hell of a commitment for any parent and if you don't know aviation, it seems like a very confusing and difficult world to plunge into and do the research sometimes. You have, however, found the very best resource in the world right here on this very internet forum, please keep us posted and don't be afraid to ask even the stupidest sounding questions here