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Modular V Integrated (Merged) - Look here before starting a new thread!

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Modular V Integrated (Merged) - Look here before starting a new thread!

Old 21st Jan 2016, 20:21
  #701 (permalink)  
 
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2015 jobs.

Any news on the job front for the modular class of 2015?
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Old 4th Feb 2016, 21:05
  #702 (permalink)  
 
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Oh my eye!! on a totally different subject, I have just used my new/used Sennheiser S1 Digitals that I purchased second hand from ebay to replace my busted Bose A20s and I cannot believe how good they are. So much more comfortable which is amazing seeing as my A20s were great. Not that I recommend streaming music when flying but the S1s actually fade out ATC when there is a transmission. - Amazing
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Old 8th Feb 2016, 08:19
  #703 (permalink)  
 
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New Member currently PPL

Hi and good morning, just wanted to post introducing myself to the forum. I'm from England and currently studying for my PPL (which by the way is a nightmare with the weather in this country) and really wanted some help.

Posters can break it down as simple as they like but I'm not devoid of intelligence.

After doing my PPl I intend to do my night, multi and VMC rating. Then obviously I'm a qualified PPL. After this, and maybe a job upgrade/loan ots time for the CPL, after this its the Instrument Rating. Then maybe Type/apply for jobs. Is this a good route to go? I really want to fly but do not have the access to funds for an integrated program to get straight to an airline. Don't mind if it takes me 5 years plus, 27 now and looking to be qualified before I'm 35. Is it worth doing an instructor rating with my CPL? Any other tips or advice is greatly appreciated from anyone who has done it this way.
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Old 8th Feb 2016, 11:33
  #704 (permalink)  
 
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jamesgrainge,


This is my honest opinion, take it or leave it.


If you cannot get the funds / training loan to do a zero/PPL to hero course(speak to Oxford /CTC ) then DON'T WASTE YOUR MONEY!


Though the route you are planning is the traditional route (and the only admirable one!) it will leave you with about 200hrs and hardly any twin time, you may if you are lucky gain employment with a small GA outfit and be paid in dangled carrots whilst working in their ops room. You may convince a twin operator to give you a job and build up a few thousand hours over 10 years or so and the airlines still won't give you a second look. (though you would be 100x better pilot than an Integrated cadet).


My advice in a nutshell:-
1.Rob a bank/talk to Oxford or CTC for funding
2. Complete Integrated Course as a proficient airliner operator with absolutely zero real experience to fall back on when it matters.


You will be a crap pilot but have a great job in the RHS of an airliner - happy days!! You will be a Captain long before taking the Noble route.


Good Luck


(you may sense bitterness in my post, there is! don't make the same mistakes as countless before you)
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Old 8th Feb 2016, 15:41
  #705 (permalink)  
 
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With reference to the above, have you considered applying to an airline scheme through an integrated school? Like BA FPP or EZY MPL?
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Old 9th Feb 2016, 05:01
  #706 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by PressTheTit
jamesgrainge,


This is my honest opinion, take it or leave it.


If you cannot get the funds / training loan to do a zero/PPL to hero course(speak to Oxford /CTC ) then DON'T WASTE YOUR MONEY!


Though the route you are planning is the traditional route (and the only admirable one!) it will leave you with about 200hrs and hardly any twin time, you may if you are lucky gain employment with a small GA outfit and be paid in dangled carrots whilst working in their ops room. You may convince a twin operator to give you a job and build up a few thousand hours over 10 years or so and the airlines still won't give you a second look. (though you would be 100x better pilot than an Integrated cadet).


My advice in a nutshell:-
1.Rob a bank/talk to Oxford or CTC for funding
2. Complete Integrated Course as a proficient airliner operator with absolutely zero real experience to fall back on when it matters.


You will be a crap pilot but have a great job in the RHS of an airliner - happy days!! You will be a Captain long before taking the Noble route.


Good Luck


(you may sense bitterness in my post, there is! don't make the same mistakes as countless before you)
And what mistakes would they be?
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Old 9th Feb 2016, 11:15
  #707 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by keeflyer
I also know from a friend that a recent cadet at their airline took 5 years before they got a job. That's 5 years of interest on that £100,000+ loan along with the aditional type rating costs.
That's 5 years of REPAYMENTS...

The interest is a given, but whether you get a job or not, the repayments begin regardless
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Old 9th Feb 2016, 17:07
  #708 (permalink)  
 
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Thumbs up

Erm, ok, hi thanks very much for the responses guys, I appreciate that. I obviously did plan on buying a share of an aircraft for fun at the end of the year to hours build.

Being no longer 18 and thinking the world s***s money in your direction and everything is handed to you I understand this will be a long process. Like I say, I've set aside the next 7.5 years, saving £10k a year or a loan to accelerate gaining the licences and intend to be "employed" making money from a flying job by then. I don't necessarily assume that will be for an Airline, in fact I can think of many more exciting flying jobs, but that's where the big wage is ultimately. I would prefer to do the job for the life it gives, the hours and enjoyment rather than the money.

But your post basically suggests that I will have no chance of ever flying for an airline, but very recently the likes of Jet 2 were screaming for FO no Type Rated with as little as 300 hours, and nowhere did it even mention the word "Jet".

Obviously I appreciate some people find jobs hard to acquire but I have worked hard to get everything I've got in life, no one has ever given me a penny. Without sounding soppy, two years ago I was about £5k in debt with no hope in life. Now I have no debt, professional qualifications and rent my own house. So I'm of the belief hard work pays off.

In summary, my real question would be, what is the best order to become fully qualified with an fATPL, is it cheaper to combine IR+CPL+ME or to do as many of the smaller ones first off my own back. Do I need bother a night and weather after my PPL if I'm going to have an IR in the future? And should I get an instructor rating with it just as back up? And finally, I live in Yorkshire, it seems pricey but is Multiflight at LBA any good??

Many thanks
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Old 15th Feb 2016, 20:05
  #709 (permalink)  
 
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It is possible to get a jet job as a modular fATPL without thousands of hours, though the opportunities are few and far between. Many of the light twin jobs, which are more of the market for modular, require much more experience than for the jets. It helps to works for these companys in another role beforehand.

The integrated schools are so dominant in recruitment, partly because they now have their own 'Old Boys' network, and have created a situation where everyone thinks you have to take out expensive integrated training with a couple of schoools to get a job. Boycott the integrated money making schemes, and the recruitment situation for modular will improve - but try telling that to little Johnny, who has just been to an open day and been sold the dream...
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Old 25th Feb 2016, 13:51
  #710 (permalink)  
 
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How many rubbish do we need to read? The 80% of freshly graduate pilots in Europe end up in FR! They don't give a **** where the pilot has studied! If u are not successful in FR you need to do something else! FI rating is a good way to start! Too many people want everything easy and fast and I cannot understand why people (specially youngs being in their 20s) want to get to the RHS as a first job! Live your life, enjoy a real path, know people, fly around, meet girls boys, go party, go to uni, get drunk... In summary enjoy your life and become a pilot too, don't go being 18 to OAA, CTC or FTE because you will be that captain complaining about aviation and life, that captain who hardly any FO wants to have!

Enjoy your life and fly, be modular!
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Old 26th Feb 2016, 08:47
  #711 (permalink)  
 
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Thankyou for your great reply. A welcome breath of fresh air considering ive spent a few nights awake wondering if I should go down this path with it costing so much and people being adamant there is no chance of a job at the end.

In response to another individual, my old CFI qualified Integrated by the time he was 24, at 27 he is still working in an ops room for the chance to be TR on a King Air. Go figure.
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Old 4th Mar 2016, 06:42
  #712 (permalink)  
 
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Call me naive...

I've done a fair bit of reading on PPRuNe and what I can gather is that there are currently some integrated guys out there without a job and then some modulars who have managed it (recently).

Surely this implies there are additional aspects above which route you take? I mean any old fool with a bit of cash and good training can stump up for an integrated course and come out certified, thats what the schools are very good at doing right?

Getting a high responsibility job in any industry takes skill and determination. Networking, leg work, presentation etc. I think if I was sat on the other side of the desk and someone pushed a CV at me that simply said "CTC" or "Oxford" fully expecting to land a job I'd tell ten where to go. I could be wrong but perhaps those life skills are what's missing for those guys that have all the qualifications and no job... From both routes. Just a thought.
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Old 4th Mar 2016, 17:51
  #713 (permalink)  
 
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h4r, sounds very sensible that.


I get the impression that (partly due to CTC's marketing and "official" statistics) there are some people naive enough to believe their mere association of training with them will open doors and wow recruiters/airline management.

A very small minority, but they do think that they won't actually have to try and get a job, it'll land on their plate, or maybe even they'll get to take their pick of jobs.



They're probably the same ones that think by turning up every day they'll automatically pass the exams without having to put in the hours of work every evening and weekend (not because ATPL theory is hard, but because there is so much to learn in such a short amount of time).



I'm hearing stories from friends that there are some people turning up to selections/interviews with no preparation, don't know anything about the company in question, or the number of aircraft/bases/routes/etc, aren't even faking desire to join said company.

Where do you see yourself in 5 years time is responded to with comments like "hopefully long-haul at BA/Virgin"... and they then wonder why they don't get offered a job, and blame it on the training organisation!



Whether you want to actually be joining the company you're interviewing for, or whether you'd rather be somewhere else, you pretend like you do. Very few people in life are able to get the job they really want right from the start, you need to work for it, build experience and hours.

But if you're applying for a small turboprop airline, you act like you want to be there, and like you want to stay there.
You know you don't, the interviewer(s) probably knows you don't, but you should never actually admit you don't.


If people aren't clever enough to work that out and do the research and genuinely try and get an offer for every job they apply for, then what the hell are they bothering for?! Like they'll land the job they really want with that kind of attitude and mentality.
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Old 4th Mar 2016, 21:08
  #714 (permalink)  
 
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Many of the airline "recruiters" go to these schools to supply their cadet intake. The candidates are from a known background with a training regime the airline is already familiar with (and likely involved with.)
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Old 8th Mar 2016, 13:52
  #715 (permalink)  
 
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The big schools...

Hi all...

I've been paying attention to this thread for some time now and have noted the differences in opinion of training modular vs integrated.

I'm led to believe from the posts that if you want any chance of landing a job in the RHS, one of the big schools is the way to go (CTC, Parc, FTE)

I'm in an extremely fortunate position where finance is not an issue.... A position that I never thought I would be in my wildest dreams.

In my mind, the modular approach was always the way I'd planned to go, however, I'm now thinking that if I want any good chance of securing a job with an airline, albeit a zero hour contract, then the likes of CTC would be the way to go.

A previous PPL instructor of mine has given me advice to this effect (he's now Captain at EZY)...

Any advice that any of you may have would be much appreciated.
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Old 8th Mar 2016, 21:18
  #716 (permalink)  
 
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Integrated is probably the quicker way.

But to get a job at say Easyjet though CTC, you don't have to be one of their start-to-finish cadets.

You can do modular with CTC, so you go to them once you have a PPL and enough hours to do the CPL, and the ATPL theory, and then you do the CPL/IR/MCC with them.

Or you can apply to CTC to do the MCC once you already have your licence, and can get into their infamous hold pool that way.



I've heard from those in the CTC bubble that the current "waiting list" for CTC and "non-CTC" in their hold pool is circa 4-6 months from entering the pool (i.e. finishing MCC) to type rating start date... which includes waiting for airline selection, actually passing selection, then waiting for type rating to start.

Seems like they can't get enough through at the moment
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Old 9th Mar 2016, 08:02
  #717 (permalink)  
 
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Amazing advice as usual sir. Incredible you can get in the same pool for half the price. I guess the MCC+JOC at CTC isn't wildly different to other providers? Any idea of the costs? Presumably the industry has picked up slightly in recent times regarding hiring?
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Old 10th Mar 2016, 19:07
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Bealzebub is from Easyjet!!!!!!! The only airline that cares if you are modular and will not hire you is the orange one!!! If you want to become an Esayjet pilot you must pay more than 120000€ from your wallet!
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Old 10th Mar 2016, 20:01
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Not true... I've got a friend who has just passed selection for Easyjet (he is CTC integrated) and will be type rating at CTC alongside several modular trainees in May.

I do not know Beelzebub, but I do not believe he is at the orange one. He might be, but I think I remember reading one of his posts a while back that suggested it was another Airbus operator, possibly one that operates the 321.

And jamesgrainge,

I think it is close to £10k for their MCC/JOC.
So significantly more expensive than other places if an MCC certificate is what one is after. But who really is after a certificate? They're after a job. So considering the doors a CTC training report and recommendation can open...

There are people re-doing their MCC with CTC just to get jobs.
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Old 11th Mar 2016, 06:22
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Wow, ouch haha, thanks for the heads up, that's a heck of a mark up, lucky ive saved some cash against the CPL sections, I cant see any point in not possessing a MCC if I want much chance of employment, plus like you say the assessment criteria and recommendation are "improved" (annoyingly as it shouldn't matter what the name on your training provider is if EASA recognised)
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