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Modular V Integrated (Merged) - Look here before starting a new thread!

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Modular V Integrated (Merged) - Look here before starting a new thread!

Old 31st Jul 2012, 18:25
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Like most people, I can't really afford a huge loan for the integrated course. I'm currently doing my PPL. My aim has always been to go modular. Would anyone be able to put up a full cons/pros list for anyone like myself who are in the process of choosing? Also, realistically, what are the chances of an unsecured loan for integrated versus modular? Are both unlikely?
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Old 1st Aug 2012, 14:00
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I've been looking into this in detail over the last year or so, and my take on it is as follows.

The appeal of the modular route (which is what I'm doing) is that you can work full time throughout the course, and pay for your training as you go. Even if you need to borrow money for the expensive CPL/MEIR stage at the end of the course, the cost would be around £25k which you could conceivably borrow on an unsecured basis if (and only if) you're in well paid employment and have a good credit rating.

An integrated course would be worth doing if you can get onto a tagged scheme with an airline. However, with the exception of the BA FPP scheme (currently closed), you would be required to fund the cost of the course up front from your own resources (or borrowings). A loan of this magnitude (£80kish + housing and living costs for 18 months) would be required to be secured on a property with substantial equity in it and - sensibly enough - would certainly not be available on an unsecured basis these days.

Doing an integrated course, even on a tagged scheme, is a bit of a risk in the event that your potential employer folds (or simply decides it doesn't need to take you on) - but would probably be a risk worth taking (or it would be for me). Doing it without any prospect of a job at the end of it seems like madness in the current market.

The other thing to consider, if you're already earning, is the loss of earnings for the duration of the integrated course which might be very substantial - not to mention the lack of a 'back up' plan if you've burned your bridges with your existing career by giving up work to pursue flying training.

Keep in mind as well that, whether modular or integrated, you're highly likely going to have to fund your own type rating at the end of training - which could be £10k to £30k depending on operator/aircraft.

As a result of the above, my conclusion is that a. if you aren't on an airline scheme, and/or b. have a well paid existing job, modular becomes the only sensible option.

Last edited by taxistaxing; 1st Aug 2012 at 14:07. Reason: typo
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Old 1st Aug 2012, 22:33
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Taxistaxing sums up my situation and thoughts exactly. I'd love to have access to upwards of £90k to go integrated, but even if I did I'd only do a tagged scheme simply because it provides as much security as there is out there for employment afterwards.

Going modular enables me to fit flying in around work, keeping any eventual loan to an absolute minimum, though of course it does take longer than integrated. Might mean I end up working for Ryanair and paying for my own rating, but that could just as easily be the case if you go integrated. Horses for courses I suppose, and in an industry as volatile as aviation we could be in a completely different market in 4 years time
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Old 3rd Aug 2012, 01:17
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Well to be honest I prefer Integrated as I find it more convenient due to the fact majority of the airlines prefer this. However at the moment I am doing my PPL but if I do integrated at CTC wings (which I want to do) as soon as I finish my A Levels I think it may put me in a good position of getting a job as a Airline Pilot preferably for Qatar Airways. I don't see what the fuss is about between modular vs integrated. But I am surprised how much people on pprune underrate integrated route a lot. Couple of weeks back I went to southampton to CTC wings open day, and in their presentation I was surprised at their statistics of how short the hold pool time wait was, average was between 3-4 months with the latest a year. However if you really want the job as airline pilot I'm sure fellow ppruners will choose their suitable option of training and put in the effort of getting a dream job as an Airline Pilot
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Old 3rd Aug 2012, 10:25
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@City Flyer; nail, head, spot on!
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Old 3rd Aug 2012, 21:14
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Hard decision whether to choose CTC wings or not, however it would be interesting to know weather if they are any CTC wings students (on pprune) who are still unemployed (meaning by that waiting over a year for a job).

Not seen Oxford or FTE yet, as I'm wondering which one of these 2 are better than CTC for their training and employment at the end, any ideas?
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Old 4th Sep 2012, 15:49
  #407 (permalink)  
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Since I started this thread in January 2010 and as its had over 104,300 views until now, I thought I would add where My flight training got me:

Since completing my modular cpl/ir in 2009, I sent out my cv and applications to all the airlines and charter companies I could find across the world. I heard back from 4 in total, had missed a telephone interview with a UK based lo cost airline and was not given another chance to arrange a telephone interview, two others airlines were based in Africa however I did not have the experience on the aircraft type and finally had an interview with a European airline.

I received a job offer and put myself in to greater debt by having to find extra finance for the type rating.

I have been flying for them for almost a year now and have met many guys from both integrated and the modular route along the way.

All I will tell you is that we have the same job and when I tell some of them how much my training cost, you could hear a pin drop in the room. My debts are a lot less and should be paid off within 2.5years.

Guys it's a no brainer, don't fool for the shiny brochures and kind words given to you at the integrated open days. Instead, ask them why it costs so much more than the modular route even when they send you to America to do part of the training (where it is meant to be a lot cheaper than in the UK). Their costs per student are much lower and should actually make the whole course a lot cheaper than modular.

Enjoy the flight training, go for the job but don't just spend your money or anyone else's on expensive training. There are some great modular schools out there offering a professional and personal service.
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Old 4th Sep 2012, 18:45
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Excellent - thanks for the inspirational post. Many congratulations and all credit to you for the achievement. Great to have an antidote to the doom and gloom - especially in the midst of ATPL exams.
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Old 5th Sep 2012, 12:00
  #409 (permalink)  
 
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Its nice to hear back and its nice to hear that you've made it to the flightdeck.

Good luck.
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Old 12th Sep 2012, 07:59
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Hi everyone, i finally made the decision to quit my current education plan and go modular to hopefully end up as a hired pilot anywhere. Even if i fail Iam sure I would feel better to have tryed my best in terms of aviation, rather then done nothing at all.

Now to my quastion: I have managed to get hold of a job which salary able´s me to save 1000 euros every month. Iam aware of that this might not seem much, and that it will take me several years to complete this little project of mine, but would you guys who went modular, advise me to save up to a respectfully sum of cash (e.g the sum of the whole PPL) before actually beginnning the training?
(or perhaps save up even more?)

In doing this I would gain the advantage of always beeing one step ahead of my education regarding its financing I guess, although I want to start flying as soon as possible.

You guys who went modular, how did you finance the project? and beyond all, any other advises to a beginner?
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Old 12th Sep 2012, 10:20
  #411 (permalink)  
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Yes.

I'd do a PPL reasonably quickly first so that you're not on too flat a learning curve. To do that, you need the funds to startwith. But buy the groundschool books now and whilst you are building up the money to do your PPL flying, learn the material you'll need for the ground exams. Navigation will be a struggle, because it's hard to understand until you've done some actual cross-country flying, but the rest you can certainly do before any flying.

Then, slowly but post PPL, you can build up funds towards the CPL course whilst doing the relatively inexpensive distance learning groundschool (assuming you do it that way) and some steady hourbuilding knowing enough about yourself and flying to know if you really want to carry on that way.

Doing a flying course slowly is the expensive way in the long run. I made that mistake on my CPL and probably added 10 hours doing so, which is a lot of cash!
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Old 12th Sep 2012, 10:31
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@FOJohansson

I am in a similar scenario, and have read these boards with interest and taken advice from those with experience.

For what it is worth, the best advice I have received seems to be that the PPL, distance learning for the ATPL, hour building and even the CPL at a push can all be done part time whilst working.

However, the instrument rating is by far the toughest part and should absolutely be done in one hit if possible. This will mean taking 8-12 weeks out of work, but I have been told certainly worth it.

Best of luck, and hopefully in a few years when we have all the licences there will be some jobs around that aren't ring fenced for integrated cadets or those that have gone through p2f!
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Old 12th Sep 2012, 11:08
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Hi everyone, i finally made the decision to quit my current education plan and go modular to hopefully end up as a hired pilot anywhere. Even if i fail Iam sure I would feel better to have tryed my best in terms of aviation, rather then done nothing at all.

As others have said many times on other threads, it's probably worth doing a few hours of flying before you make any big decisions re. commercial training. You never know you may find you hate it! I would say do the PPL first and then, if you still want to go for it at that point, start on the ATPL DL and hour building.

I totally agree you should do the PPL in as short a time as possible. I spread mine over several years and it added £000s to the overall cost.

That said, do go for the odd flight while you're studying for the ground exams as it gives you motivation! I'm combining hour building with ATPL theory for this reason.
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Old 12th Sep 2012, 11:11
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I would also get a class 1 medical before making any drastic decisions.
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Old 12th Sep 2012, 16:18
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Can anyone recommend any good flight schools which provide modular training? And also, would it be better to do modular abroad or in the UK?
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Old 13th Sep 2012, 10:16
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Thank you guys, It is very comforting to read about other who find themselves in the same situation, and the information have been very appriciated. I will work to save up money for the PPL, while reading the theory, and then start the whole thing. Iam very excited! The first thing I will do is a medical check



Sorry i forgot to ask if you guys think that beeing away from the academic
world for that long, will effect my possibilities to get through the test's that airlines, if i understod it correctly, requires you to pass in order to even think about getting hired? What i mean is that My math skills, not to talk about my physics skills probably is going to be a bit rusty after working day and night in order to finance the modular CPL, or is it mainly flying skills that are tested combined with IQ test?

Best Regards!

Last edited by FoJohansson; 14th Sep 2012 at 16:07. Reason: New quastion
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Old 18th Sep 2012, 14:24
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my experience

I left school in 08 and wanted to go Int however; at the time I was naive and stupid and believed Cabair would get me a job at the end. Lucikly we didnt have 70k to do it so I decided to spend the next 2years working and manged to save best part of 15k alongside getting a PPL and some hours.

During that time my desire to do this all grew and through doing various jobs I realised this is what I really want to do and I would never know where the dream would go unless I gave it a shot. Through looking up at planes on my lunchbreak wishing I was up there is the fuel for the fire to push you through all the turmoil and trouble that you will experience during flight training and that first job.

However last year I finished my job and started the road from PPL to Fatpl Armed with my cash and a loan and family help.

Now about to start my MCC do i regreat going modular? No Would I change it? No, because I have met some fantastic people along the way and only have a 13k loan at the end of all this rather than 80k. So I can continue my life and aspiration to become a pilot in a sustainable manner.

For me 80k and the next ten years of my life paying it off is too much of a risk to take. As there are fine lines between dreams/nightmares.
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Old 18th Sep 2012, 15:06
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@ Jugs

Exactly the same conclusions I have come to, though you are further down the line than me!

Now the hard work begins of actually finding that elusive first job...best of luck!
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Old 1st Oct 2012, 20:58
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Waypoint programme

Im considering taking the modular route; first gain my PPL, onto Oxford's Waypoint programme and worked it out to be around £47k, then there is the hour building which is estimated to be around another £14 - £15k, this course with oxford includes; ATPL (A) theory, MEP, IR , CPL, and JOC if needed.

What do some of you gents think about this option?
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Old 9th Oct 2012, 12:47
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Im considering taking the modular route; first gain my PPL, onto Oxford's Waypoint programme and worked it out to be around £47k,
just to confirm.. 47k for a ppl ????
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