Professional Pilot Training (includes ground studies)A forum for those on the steep path to that coveted professional licence. Whether studying for the written exams, training for the flight tests or building experience here's where you can hang out.
They were getting through with CTC before they went intergrated. There is virually no change in the course though between then and now.
CTC have sown up that end of the hours range.
And although on a crappy TP I know of 5 low houred wannbies who have just got jobs and are starting type ratings. Only one of them is intergrated and he wasn't going to get the job but his dad knows the owner so he is getting in even though the trainers arn't to happy about it.
"It is cheaper, but the question I ask myself: will you get a job with it in the end? Because that's what it's all about: get a job and earn more than you invested.
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I think that has already been answered, ie: YOU ask yourself: will you get a job with an integrated FTO ? And also - if "thats what its all about" get a job as a banker.
I will give you my example just so you see where some people stand.
I have SAVED (through working my arse off for the last 8 years) for my PPL (I have just progressed into navigation), and the ATPL theory, CPL, IR,ME that will follow. What that means in plain english, is that I have enough CASH to be 100% debt free and with a nice little blue CAA folder under my arm in a years time or so - PROVIDED I DO IT MODULAR.
What happens then ? - Well, if I DO NOT get a "proper" job then I will not have 800 pounds a month repayments and will easily be able to stay current & perhaps think of an instuctors rating if the "proper" job doesnt materialise too soon. To me taking the integrated course would mean inability to maintain my license/ratings once I attain them due to severe debt.
In any case, I would not have the heart to ask my mum/dad to remortgage their house for such a gamble. Yes, its hard to get a "proper" flying job but t**gh sh*t, just get on with it - Im spending all of my life savings but dont moan about it because I love flying.
As for people giving it all this"...there is no jobs, its a waste of time..." sure, there is no farkin jobs, BUT - do you love flying or do you just want to pull chicks in your (insert a posh airline name here) uniform & aviators, while getting paid 100k for the pleasure ???
Totally agree with chuck-ski! At the moment, I have my ppl, currently hour building in my spare time where I can as I'm working my butt off saving money (£1000 per month). I do have time on my side as I'm only 19 and luckily have a full time job in an atc unit. And as for jobs, I worked as cabin crew for 6 months prior, and in aviation I found out it's not about what you do, it's about who you know. So why would I spend an extra £30k on going integrated?! Keep going and you'll get there
Can anyone help me as my LR is lapsed and my IR will be down too in march. According to DGCA where can i renew it and how much sim time will i have to do get that renewed. If i renew the LR than will my IR be renewed automatically with it or will i have to do some extra flying? And where can i get it done? Thanks
I don't think many folk here will have a clue about Indian licensing system. This thread is nearly all about the two deferent methods of completing commercial training in the UK.
I know two people in the last 3 months to leave Oxford Integrated and do a FI course and still not get one. One did have an interview with Ryanair; but didn't actually get it. So he paid 30k for that interview you could perhaps argue?
In every career you will have those that work their way up and those that are looking for the fast track to the top. The fast track is high reward high risk; which the large FTO's jazz up their chances. You never get a ratio of the success rate because it wouldn't be so glossy.
Can you justify an extra 30k for the same quality of training? A nice lady organising the course for you? Not to mention the fact you have interest and taxed earnings taking your 70k to close to 160-180k to actually repay to the bank. If you can't then modular or choose a different career.
It doesn't help that students can get 9k + bursaries in goverment loans for their education for ridiculus courses such as warehouse management and david beckham studies. And for us their isn't anything.
Think about it, why would the gouvernment give money for training when there are not enough jobs for everyone who did the training WITHOUT the money? That would also be a waste in my opinion. It would make flight training slightly cheaper but won't change the current job situation.
It doesn't help that students can get 9k + bursaries in goverment loans for their education for ridiculus courses such as warehouse management and david beckham studies. And for us their isn't anything.
It gives loans. The government however only gives the universities money to run courses that they perceive as useful (engineering, medicine, science...); the "ladies basket weaving" courses are run entirely on student fees (borrowed and they have to give back).
There are serious problems with the loans system of-course, and I'm sure student pilots would like a chance to take one of those loans out, but the government isn't subsidising most of those courses beyond the loan interest via the student loan company.
I did not realise that was the case. However in the UK I know alot of people that went to Uni for courses that won't help them get a job at the end of it and the student loans company does help them out.
People that would be better off going and getting a job. People are having to work for longer because people are coming into the tax system at 21-23.
When you look at 100k to get a job. You'd be better off buying half a house and going to work at Tesco.
I'm really wanting to be a commercial pilot, hopefully one day for a large airline. At the moment, money is looking like it's going to be a big issue, so, Modular seems like the way forwards, but, I'm really worried I will walk out with my (f)ATPL, go and get a type rating, and then, after being around £54k in debt, have no job at the end. At least with an integrated you are sometimes practically guaranteed one, at least for a 'summer job', but then, at least after that, you have the experience, so are maybe more attractive to potential employees. A friend of my brothers is now a pilot for Ryanair, having gone down the Integrated route at OAA (His parents have money flowing out their ears), and he says that people who go integrated are much more attractive to airlines than modular, because it's quicker and shows dedication (or something like that). Is this true? I'm only 16 at the moment, but, we hardly have any money, so, it looks like it'll be the modular route for me.
people who go integrated are much more attractive to airlines than modular, because it's quicker and shows dedication (or something like that). Is this true?
More dedicated than someone who is funding their training the modular route by working 60 hours a week and knowing they are going to be doing that for a couple more years before they have just their bare licences in their hands!?
I believe that only applies to the groundschool exams. I.e. you have 18 months after you've completed your first exam to finish the rest. Once the last exam is complete you then have 36 months in which to gain your CPL/IR.
Yes totally agree keep pushing. Go and work as cabin crew for a year anything...there are loads of different ways push push push don't fall by the wayside. 8/10 milionairs were financially bankrupt you need to take some risks keep pushing in anything you do success will come.
"I don't say I can't, I ONLY SAY I CAN" Arnold schwarzenegger. Professional bodybuilder, 1st Austrain Governer of Calif.
How many people did he prove wrong that told him it can't be done.
Firstly this is my first post on the forums so hello everyone!!
I am currently doing my PPL (almost skills test ready) and have decided to look further ahead to the ATPLs etc. I attended an FTO this week (which shall remain nameless). The purpose of my visit was to see what their ATPL ground school facilities were like. I work full time so my intentions are to do my ATPL, CPL ME/IR via the modular route. This is also so that I can fund my training.
This particular school, in a nutshell, were telling me that if I don't go through the integrated route, the chances of me getting any airline job at the end of modular training are very very slim at best. Apparently airlines will always look at the integrated students over modular students. Is this really true?
I was wondering if anyone here has either completed or know someone who has completed the modular route and has successfully gained airline employment? Or even anyone who knows how airlines recruit and whether there is any weight in what this school was saying?
Thanks in advance for your thoughts/views/experiences in regards to this.
You'll find the answers if you do a search but from what I've been reading over the couple of months I've made my own opinion.
The way to look at it jobs are the hardest part of being a pilot. Some integrated schools are good at placing all their pilots at airlines but it could be years before they do. I know somebody who went to CTC but took him 2 years to get on Flexicrew with easyjet. So yeah the school helped him with placement. So there is a slight truth that you may get a job quicker integrated, but there are plenty of stories on this forum of people who haven't after years and years of completing an integrated scheme, and stories of people who have jobs within 6 months after training on both modular and integrated.
In my opinion, airlines don't care if you went integrated or not but you'll find some airlines typically only take integrated but it's not a choice of who's the better pilot, it's about business, time and money or they have kind of cadet scheme.
Either way you'll get a job eventually but anybody that tells you you will defo get a job purely because integrated is lying for your cash and when they say 'we help you with a job' nobody tells you how long you have to wait for that job and I doubt most companies care after you've given them all their money. I suggest you stick to just one modular school if that's your route tho and don't think integrated produce better pilots than modular, that's what they want you to think and there's no truth in it.
...nobody tells you how long you have to wait for that job and I doubt most companies care after you've given them all their money. I suggest you stick to just one modular school if that's your route tho and don't think integrated produce better pilots than modular, that's what they want you to think and there's no truth in it.
Integrated does not produce better pilots, but it does produce more employed pilots. Why? Discussion between FTO and a carrier
Carrier: you want us to do what??? FTO: We want you to sign an exclusivity only taking our students. Carrier: Why would we do such a thing? FTO: Because we produce a known product and it does the job, we'll screen your candidates on the basis of your criteria and present the good ones for interview with a shiny report on how brilliant they are.... Carrier: Err sorry we can hire our own people thanks. FTO: We're not finished, we also offer Type Ratings Carrier: We know and they're really expensive FTO: We'll make them a little cheaper Carrier: Yes that's brilliant but not really enough for us to exclusively hire from you. FTO: Still not finished Carrier: Really? FTO: No, we can also make it profitable exercise, because these idiots are so keen to be pilots any way they can they will actually pay YOU money to work for you, we'll call it a type rating but what we'll actually do is fiddle it round so that they cover the costs of some of your other training, you wont need to employ them until they've actually passed. Carrier: Seems a bit dodgy to me, not sure I like it but the accountant sitting next to me has started humping my leg... FTO Still not finished, we'll make it so the tax falls in your favour, so not only will you not have to actually pay any of the poor sods you'll gain about £10k for each person through. Then you can offer them shitty Ts & Cs so that if they don't meet your needs after 6 months you can say bye bye at almost no cost to yourself. Carrier: So basically what you're saying is we treat them badly for 6 months on a 6 month contract, it costs us almost nothing and only at the end of 6 months do we need to decide if we hire them? FTO: Yes Carrier: Honestly I don't feel comfortable with this, the accountant has just left some gentlemans relish on me, I need to clean this off, let me think about it <leaves> Accountant: Quick let's sign it.
