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Professional Pilot Training (includes ground studies) A forum for those on the steep path to that coveted professional licence. Whether studying for the written exams, training for the flight tests or building experience here's where you can hang out.

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Old 8th May 2011, 11:00   #281 (permalink)
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Birmingham, United Kingdom
Posts: 7

I've done a little looking around for you and didn't turn up anything substantial, I imagine it's hard seeing as pilots have rough hours and I know the Shabbat doesn't allow jewish people to work, drive, and in some terms even cook, so if you were following your religion to the letter I'd guess your options as a CPL would be things like flight instruction where you could just not work on those days. Now that I think about it, Israir must have a fair few non-jewish pilots to be able to operate all week round and would probably be your best bet in terms of employment with an airline, I've tried looking for a careers page but didn't turn up anything, it seems they have no job openings at the moment, but it might be worth emailing them and asking them the T&C's of their pilot jobs as a jewish pilot and whether they are cool with it

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Israir Airlines & Tourism Ltd.: Private Company Information - BusinessWeek
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Old 10th May 2011, 20:24   #282 (permalink)
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: London UK
Posts: 4
modular expenses

Airberlin2010 can i ask where you did your modular building?
30000 seems cheap and money is a bit tight at the moment... thanks
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Old 26th May 2011, 23:02   #283 (permalink)
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Cardiff
Age: 33
Posts: 3

i i have just read your very interesting feed about the costs you incurred in training, can i enquire what you thought about the CATS online course? How did you find it? I also see that you have done training just about everywhere, do you have any advice for me, basically i have got my ppl and need to get my atpls done asap so this is my focus at the moment, problem is money as always and i am based in cardiff?

Any help/advice would be very much appreciated
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Old 29th May 2011, 12:33   #284 (permalink)
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: FL340
Posts: 15
Distance learning is usually the cheapest option for ATPL ground school.

There's a new ATPL distance learning ground school called ProPilot. It was at the Flyer show and has all the ATPL manuals on an i-pad. There's an introductory offer on at the mo. It's another option for anyone considering the modular route.

Last edited by Matron; 30th May 2011 at 18:54.
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Old 29th Jun 2011, 10:37   #285 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Essex
Age: 20
Posts: 5
Hi i really want to do one of these courses. Im now looking at getting my PPL ad have seen some places in essex/london areas but does anyone the best cheapest place to get my license? Also could someone explain to me what the difference is between modular and integrated?

Do i need good exam results to do any courses to become a commercial pilot? I was expected to get good results but i didnt do too well in the exams and was wondering will that effect my dream of becoming a pilot? If so does anybody know how and where i can redo my exams?

Thanks in Advance
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Old 29th Jun 2011, 11:29   #286 (permalink)

Probationary PPRuNer
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Essex
Age: 20
Posts: 5
Im so confused with all of this.

Can somebody tell me what the pilot ratings are and how you get them and what different ratings there are?

Ive searched all over the internet but cant find anything.
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Old 29th Jun 2011, 13:58   #287 (permalink)
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 201
...oh boy

Well the first thing you need to understand is the difference between a licence and a rating.


Type Ratings eg (Dash 8, B373 etc)
Others include: tailwheel, seaplane

To fly you need a licence + a rating ie when you initially fly privately you have a PPL + SEP.

To get a job in the RHS you generally need what is called a frozen ATPL which consists (from zero hours);

Modular: PPL + Night + ATPL ground exams + CPL + Twin + IR + MCC (Multi-crew course)
Integrated: All of the above training thrown in together to get an f/ATPL

There are various hours requirements at each stage as well as a 300 nm cross country flight to get issued with your CPL.

Modular schools will sell you the individual bits, Integrated schools the whole shabang.

There is also the MPL but that is only airline sponsored, I believe
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Old 10th Jul 2011, 09:40   #288 (permalink)
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Edinburgh
Age: 30
Posts: 6
Best starting point...

Hello all,

I've been reading this forum with great interest for the last few months and i apologise if this topic has come up before..(which I am sure it has somewhere)

I am starting the modular route this September beginning with the humble PPL. I was just wondering if anyone can give some advice on the best way to do this..it seems a popular option to go to the US to do it in 4 weeks (having done the ground exams beforehand) but my online research doesn't show a massive saving in cost compared to the UK when you take account of return airfares, living costs etc...

Am I missing something? Is there a flight school that offers a competitive deal?

I'm looking at around 6,500 for the course here in Scotland. (45 hrs)

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Old 10th Jul 2011, 10:28   #289 (permalink)
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: In the thoughts of who loves me
Age: 21
Posts: 943
Rupert, I do believe that if you do everything in the U.S. and then you convert the FAA ratings and licences to JAA it will be cheaper.
Bristol Fligh Centre has good prices to convert the FAA licences to UK CAA/JAA.

Some schools have their homes where you can stay for the lenght of your training. Just give a look around.
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Old 11th Jul 2011, 21:07   #290 (permalink)
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: London
Posts: 68

I did my PPL in the US. The main advantage is that if you set out to get your PPL in 4 weeks and choose somewhere with good weather, you can do it. In the UK if you are unlucky with weather it can take much longer. The main disadvantage is that when you get back you have to get used to UK airspace, radio, etc which takes a little while.

On the cost side, I'm not sure if there are still cost savings to be made so when you are doing the comparison make sure to add in the extras like accomodation, books, exam fees, visas, and conversion / signoff costs (see below)...

In some places in the US you get a CAA (UK) PPL but there is less demand so fewer schools to choose from.

If you get an FAA PPL you have many more choices of where to learn. Currently you can fly in the UK on an FAA PPL. You'll need a few hours of dual time to rent privately so take this into account when calculating your costs. If you plan to fly on your FAA PPL you will also need to get a radio licence: in the US there isn't any separate radio licence (it's part of the PPL) but in the UK you need a separate document. You can get a standalone UK radio licence or get a document issued by the (US) FCC. (Both will involve extra costs.) When the EASA (EU) rules come into place I don't think it will be possible to fly on an FAA PPL any more (I don't claim to be expert on this so others on the forum should correct me if needed).

If you get an FAA PPL and plan to convert, there are different processes depending on how many hours you have. If you convert with less than 100 hours of flying time, you will need to sit all 7 UK PPL theory exams as well as do the checkride. If you have more than 100 hours, you only need to sit 3 exams and do the checkride.

I hope that helps.
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Old 12th Jul 2011, 15:22   #291 (permalink)
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Edinburgh
Age: 30
Posts: 6
Thanks very much for your info, much appreciated.

At the moment the best flight school I can find is European Flight Training (EFT) based in Fort Pierce, Florida. They offer a good sounding sounding package including the JAA PPL, Radiotelephony course, Night Rating along with 21 days accommodation (the duration of the course)

I am currently getting a few hours logged with the hope of going over and getting my PPL in the minimum time, here's hoping!

EFT seem a reputable school but would be grateful if anyone has any comments or past experiences there.

I plan to head out in October to complete the PPL so I'll be sure to provide anyone with info regarding the school etc...

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Old 21st Jul 2011, 14:48   #292 (permalink)
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Denham
Age: 18
Posts: 45
Im so confused with all of this.

Can somebody tell me what the pilot ratings are and how you get them and what different ratings there are?

Ive searched all over the internet but cant find anything.
He cracks me up
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Old 29th Jul 2011, 08:13   #293 (permalink)
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: somewhere on this planet
Posts: 385
ask your dady for t/r and XXXX hours of line training, and PAY TO WORK until the airline kick you out for the next idiot who believe he will get a paid job!
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Old 25th Aug 2011, 14:43   #294 (permalink)

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Location: England
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Old 20th Sep 2011, 09:36   #295 (permalink)

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Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Netherlands
Age: 22
Posts: 1
Could someone tell me how oxfords modular atpl theory and waypoint program are viewed by the airlines?

Theoretically speaking if I happen to do oxfords atpl full time and thereafter their waypoint program. Wouldnt this be considered the same quality as integrated? or am I being a bit too optimistic on my way of thinking?
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Old 29th Sep 2011, 08:03   #296 (permalink)
Join Date: May 2011
Location: london
Age: 31
Posts: 7

This topic help me a lot in developing my project. I will contribute more when I finished it.

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Best regards.

Last edited by hambim336; 6th Oct 2011 at 02:38.
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Old 29th Sep 2011, 15:52   #297 (permalink)
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: London
Posts: 137

I completed my training last month at Stapleford Flight Centre. Here is my break down:

PPL+Ground school.
Night Course.
Hour building all in UK. All land aways were free.
CPL+CAA skills test and 170A
IR+CAA skills test and 170A
ATPL London Met. Distance Learning+exam fees
Licence fees

TOTAL 42934.

I started in 2008 and it has taken me 3 years and 8 months to complete all my training all with first time passes and in minimum hours, working full time and managed to do most of it without using much holiday time(15 days for ATPL ground school).

Stapleford has treated me well especially during CPL and IR. Thumbs up from me.

The only thing I haven`t added in is fuel costs to and from the airfield but everything else is 99% accurate.
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Old 3rd Oct 2011, 13:34   #298 (permalink)
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: WSSS
Posts: 7
I wonder from 0 to ATPL module system, is the following the correct route as what I understood?

PPL -> Multi CPL/IR -> MCC -> ATPL

My current location could not even complete PPL due to limited airspace so I am looking at country such as MY for PPL and the rest in NZ/AU. Or do every module in NZ/AU.

Any advise? pm me if posting sch name is not advisable.

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Old 3rd Oct 2011, 20:35   #299 (permalink)
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: EGCC, EGGP, Relocatable to all UK
Posts: 87
Lowest cost 0 to fATPL in the UK

The following taken from a flight training price comparison web site Oct 2011

Best possible UK Flight Training Organisation prices for each module:
PPL (from targetaviation) 6982
Night Rating (from targetaviation) 820
100 Hours solo flight (including Landing fees fuel and vat) EGGP 7374.00
ATPL exams (from CATS) 999.00
CPL - 28 hr incl MEP Ravenair 6638.50
IR Instrument Rating Ravenair 9999.00
MCC course various 1750.00
Grand Total (for comparison purposes) ** 34,562.50

How much can you pay for the same deal?
* Costs taken off official company web sites / price lists including discounts and advertised special offers
BCFT Bournmouth Commercial Flight raining 43,724.03
Excludes: CAA exam fees CPL test fee, IR test fee CAA issue costs, PPL equip

Multiflight 37,950.00
Excludes: Medical, CPL test fee, IR Test Fee, CAA exam fees, CAA licence issue fees, Aircraft hire for tests, 170A fee, Landing and approach fees in UK, flights to and from USA, accommodation in USA, headset, meals in the USA, all training must be done in min hrs - Excludes the MCC even thought it is essential for fATPL.
PPL and hour build MUST be done in USA.

Flying Time Aviation 45,450.00
Excludes all tests CAA fees and a/c hire for tests, minimum hours only on all courses, medical

Atlantic Flight Training Ireland 51,346.00
Excludes, Flight test fees, flights to ireland, accommodation in ireland, Medical

Triple A Flying 31,500.00 Only for isolated PPL CPL and IR, excludes half of all you need, too much to list !

Aero's 23,00.00 Only for isolated PPL CPL and IR, excludes half of all your need for an fATPL

Flight Training Europe 71,000.00 Actual includes everything !
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Old 5th Oct 2011, 14:11   #300 (permalink)
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: Ex-pat Aussie in the UK
Posts: 2,851
Heavy Goods Vehicle (Cat C) drivers course: 5 days, 895, earn 18-20k/year

General Domestic Electrician's course: 17 days, 2,295 (+ tools & van), earn ~25-35k/year

General Domestic level 2 Plumbing course: 10 weeks, 4,795 (+ tools & van), earn ~30-40k/year

Level 3 Plumbing and Gas Engineer course: 20 weeks, 12,975 (+ tools & van), earn ~35-45k/year

Earnings, of course are rough average values - but you can live anywhere you like, be your own boss, work business hours & holidays (don't underestimate how much this means!), and earnings can be much higher running a successful business (and much lower with an unsuccessful one!).

CPL pilot, with ATPL subject passes (modular): 2-3 years, 40,000 (+ type rating), earn ~15-25k/year?

An employee for the rest of your life, forced to live where the airports are (very commonly in a foreign country), getting up at 3 am or home at 1 am, and never seeing a weekend or having a public holiday (like Christmas) off. Your license will be on the line every six months, and totally worthless in the event of any of a dozen common medical conditions.

It has to be said ...

Last edited by Checkboard; 5th Oct 2011 at 14:24.
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