Professional Pilot Training (includes ground studies)A forum for those on the steep path to that coveted professional licence. Whether studying for the written exams, training for the flight tests or building experience here's where you can hang out.
I've been reading this forum with great interest for the last few months and i apologise if this topic has come up before..(which I am sure it has somewhere)
I am starting the modular route this September beginning with the humble PPL. I was just wondering if anyone can give some advice on the best way to do this..it seems a popular option to go to the US to do it in 4 weeks (having done the ground exams beforehand) but my online research doesn't show a massive saving in cost compared to the UK when you take account of return airfares, living costs etc...
Am I missing something? Is there a flight school that offers a competitive deal?
I'm looking at around £6,500 for the course here in Scotland. (45 hrs)
Rupert, I do believe that if you do everything in the U.S. and then you convert the FAA ratings and licences to JAA it will be cheaper. Bristol Fligh Centre has good prices to convert the FAA licences to UK CAA/JAA.
Some schools have their homes where you can stay for the lenght of your training. Just give a look around.
I did my PPL in the US. The main advantage is that if you set out to get your PPL in 4 weeks and choose somewhere with good weather, you can do it. In the UK if you are unlucky with weather it can take much longer. The main disadvantage is that when you get back you have to get used to UK airspace, radio, etc which takes a little while.
On the cost side, I'm not sure if there are still cost savings to be made so when you are doing the comparison make sure to add in the extras like accomodation, books, exam fees, visas, and conversion / signoff costs (see below)...
In some places in the US you get a CAA (UK) PPL but there is less demand so fewer schools to choose from.
If you get an FAA PPL you have many more choices of where to learn. Currently you can fly in the UK on an FAA PPL. You'll need a few hours of dual time to rent privately so take this into account when calculating your costs. If you plan to fly on your FAA PPL you will also need to get a radio licence: in the US there isn't any separate radio licence (it's part of the PPL) but in the UK you need a separate document. You can get a standalone UK radio licence or get a document issued by the (US) FCC. (Both will involve extra costs.) When the EASA (EU) rules come into place I don't think it will be possible to fly on an FAA PPL any more (I don't claim to be expert on this so others on the forum should correct me if needed).
If you get an FAA PPL and plan to convert, there are different processes depending on how many hours you have. If you convert with less than 100 hours of flying time, you will need to sit all 7 UK PPL theory exams as well as do the checkride. If you have more than 100 hours, you only need to sit 3 exams and do the checkride.
At the moment the best flight school I can find is European Flight Training (EFT) based in Fort Pierce, Florida. They offer a good sounding sounding package including the JAA PPL, Radiotelephony course, Night Rating along with 21 days accommodation (the duration of the course)
I am currently getting a few hours logged with the hope of going over and getting my PPL in the minimum time, here's hoping!
EFT seem a reputable school but would be grateful if anyone has any comments or past experiences there.
I plan to head out in October to complete the PPL so I'll be sure to provide anyone with info regarding the school etc...
Could someone tell me how oxfords modular atpl theory and waypoint program are viewed by the airlines?
Theoretically speaking if I happen to do oxfords atpl full time and thereafter their waypoint program. Wouldnt this be considered the same quality as integrated? or am I being a bit too optimistic on my way of thinking?
I completed my training last month at Stapleford Flight Centre. Here is my break down:
£8521. Night Course.
£672. Hour building all in UK. All land aways were free.
£7360 CPL+CAA skills test and 170A
£2831 IR+CAA skills test and 170A
£13428 ATPL London Met. Distance Learning+exam fees
£2801. Licence fees
I started in 2008 and it has taken me 3 years and 8 months to complete all my training all with first time passes and in minimum hours, working full time and managed to do most of it without using much holiday time(15 days for ATPL ground school).
Stapleford has treated me well especially during CPL and IR. Thumbs up from me.
The only thing I haven`t added in is fuel costs to and from the airfield but everything else is 99% accurate.
The following taken from a flight training price comparison web site Oct 2011
Best possible UK Flight Training Organisation prices for each module:
PPL (from targetaviation) £6982 Night Rating (from targetaviation) £820 100 Hours solo flight (including Landing fees fuel and vat) EGGP £7374.00 ATPL exams (from CATS) £999.00 CPL - 28 hr incl MEP Ravenair £6638.50 IR Instrument Rating Ravenair £9999.00 MCC course various £1750.00 Grand Total (for comparison purposes) ** £34,562.50
How much can you pay for the same deal?
* Costs taken off official company web sites / price lists including discounts and advertised special offers BCFT Bournmouth Commercial Flight raining £43,724.03 Excludes: CAA exam fees CPL test fee, IR test fee CAA issue costs, PPL equip
Multiflight £37,950.00 Excludes: Medical, CPL test fee, IR Test Fee, CAA exam fees, CAA licence issue fees, Aircraft hire for tests, 170A fee, Landing and approach fees in UK, flights to and from USA, accommodation in USA, headset, meals in the USA, all training must be done in min hrs - Excludes the MCC even thought it is essential for fATPL. PPL and hour build MUST be done in USA.
Flying Time Aviation £45,450.00 Excludes all tests CAA fees and a/c hire for tests, minimum hours only on all courses, medical
Atlantic Flight Training Ireland £51,346.00 Excludes, Flight test fees, flights to ireland, accommodation in ireland, Medical
Triple A Flying £31,500.00 Only for isolated PPL CPL and IR, excludes half of all you need, too much to list !
Aero's £23,00.00 Only for isolated PPL CPL and IR, excludes half of all your need for an fATPL
Flight Training Europe £71,000.00 Actual includes everything !
Level 3 Plumbing and Gas Engineer course: 20 weeks, £12,975 (+ tools & van), earn ~£35-45k/year
Earnings, of course are rough average values - but you can live anywhere you like, be your own boss, work business hours & holidays (don't underestimate how much this means!), and earnings can be much higher running a successful business (and much lower with an unsuccessful one!).
CPL pilot, with ATPL subject passes (modular): 2-3 years, £40,000 (+ type rating), earn ~£15-25k/year?
An employee for the rest of your life, forced to live where the airports are (very commonly in a foreign country), getting up at 3 am or home at 1 am, and never seeing a weekend or having a public holiday (like Christmas) off. Your license will be on the line every six months, and totally worthless in the event of any of a dozen common medical conditions.
Has anyone looked at the waypoint programme at OAA (MECPL, IR and MCC)? roughly £28,000 but with accomodation on top. Need 150 hours, ppl and night rating and also atpl exams done but to me sounds like a good modular course at a well known school
Mate unless you have the right to work in the EU it really isn't worth looking at any EU courses, they are much more expensive than else where. No airline unless you have some special qualification will sponsor you for a work permit.
Most schools will take you on with zero qualifications all they are interested in is getting the cash out of you.
Do airlines love more Modular Pilot or Integrated Pilot?
I have just some considerations to share with the ppruners.
I met and discussed with the biggest academies, they all said: "in our integrated path you will be in the careers pool" Over here, is there somebody who was in front of this choice? Are arilines rectruiting "modular" pilot? I a will be at 99% a module pilot due to money and job restrictions... but I am still asking to myself: do I risk to be rejected becouse I am not an integrated pilot?
Are there flight schools whose are truly considered high standard FTOs?
There are just as many companys that won't look at you because your an intergrated pilot than there is that will only take intergrated.
The majority don't care either way.
The last 3 companys I worked for wouldn't touch them with a stick low hours unrated. And in that 5 year period they must have taken on about 20 first rating modular pilots and only 2 intergrated low hour but had bought the rating. Unfortunately one didn't complete the base check.