Professional Pilot Training (includes ground studies)A forum for those on the steep path to that coveted professional licence. Whether studying for the written exams, training for the flight tests or building experience here's where you can hang out.
Here is just one: A student came to us with 53 hours flight experience, a $50,000 student loan debt so far, only 3 hours solo! and not even a PPL yet.
I know some of the bigger schools have a reputation for being a little money hungry, BUT, 53 hours for $50,000 that's almost $1000/hour. That is a bit hard to believe. Yes I know there are other costs than the aircraft hire, like the exam fees and class room tuition etc but I cannot see believe that someone could have spent $50,000 for 53 hours flying.
I understand your position regarding being able to compete against schools that provide access to loan funding when you cannot. However there are schools without access to loan funding that do compete reasonably well.
Also I should point out that there are many schools providing loan funding that provide very good value for money to their students.
There is currently no requirement for an AOC to carry out GA flight trainng in New Zealand. There will be some certification requirements (but not an AOC) for certain facets in the near future but no requirement for PPL.
Do not go for Dean or Flight safety. I recently completed my multi engine training and had a great experience with a school.If you want details on the school you can PM me but I will again warn you about Dean and flight safety.
I came back pretty satisfied, the guy was really friendly too. I've been in one CPL for about 20mins, good instructor, even though im a ppl student.
The airplanes looks good, they have a quite new building which they built 3 years ago. they have lots of simulators for cirrus sr20.
And before I left I met a guy who was working at Pam Am and he was the same guy who took me for Pam Am school tour back in february. Most instructors are fairly young and there're lots of chinese students and boy do they know how to keep the campus clean *sarcasm*
The only thing I didn't like was the campus laundry and kitchen which were quite messy.
Other than that it's a pretty good school, their pass mark is higher than FAA, 80% in all courses.So gotta work hard, but I think I will go to Aerosim instead of a school here in Canada.
Be careful of Mauna Loa Helicopters in Hawaii. A great bunch of instructors but the management will say ANYTHING to get you to empty your bank account into theirs. I was one of MANY who was told "If you get your CFI, we have a job waiting for you. Then once I got that, "Well we really need you to get your instrument before we will hire you" So now $60,000.00 later with my CFI and instrument rating in hand I hear "Well, we really can't hire you unless you get your CFII so you can teach instrument students and then we are realy to go and make you part of the team here. Your our best student and we can't wait to have you teaching here" So another $15,000.00 out from my bank and into theirs and finally I graduated every rating that they teach just short of the ATP, which requires 1200 hours anyway so I wait to be hired. Time passes and still nothing. 6 months pass and I get a e-mail saying, "We regret toinform you that your 6 month has passed since your date of graduation and our company policy states that "After 6 months your no longer in the hiring pool"" Ouch, what happened? Did the tens and tens and tens of thousands of dollars I spent there count for NOTHING? A friend who works there said he overheard the owner saying he was not going to hire me since I was too old. OK, I am only 45 at that time. I was not too old for them to take all of my life savings and not too old to keep telling me that I was their next CFII. There are MANY others who got the Mauna Loa shaft so be careful. In hind sight, I would go with a reputable school that puts it in WRITTING that once completed and graduated we will hire you for XXXXX number of hours as instructor and PIC time and then let you go. Unfortunately, they didn't put that in writting nor the claims that they would hire me so it is my word against them. Sour grapes, not just for me but many others. Be carefull. There are other flight schools in HAwaii if you need to train here but whatever you do, get it in writting BEFORE you give them al your money.
Location: Salt Lake City, UT or on a fire somewhere
Other than living and flying in Hawaii for 7 years, I have no affiliations either way with the school or you...I merely offer my $0.02.
I was one of MANY who was told "If you get your CFI, we have a job waiting for you.
And you believed it-----I have a bridge to sell you..... I do not know of ANY school that will guarantee you a job other than Boatpix. Therefore I do not know which other "reputable" school you are referring to.
Did the tens and tens and tens of thousands of dollars I spent there count for NOTHING?
They are a business..... Many people go to college and spend way more money, yet do not expect the college to find them a job. The industry is what it is.... Personally I would have warned you against spending your money for ratings at your age..... And yes I know there is no "age discrimination" in the US.
I own Flight Academy Blackpool and have taken a number of these suggestions onboard. To be fair, a number of the suggestions on here was already protocol for us.
One thing I have noticed, a lot of people actually WANT to pay upfront fees! The amount of times that I have talked people out of paying upfront I could have probably retired on the profits alone! I'm not saying I don't take payment upfront, its just that I prefer not to. This protects both parties.
With the costs of flying constantly increasing, the price you pay today could make the course unaffordable for me to operate in 1-2 years time, which would mean operating at a loss, or I could increase the students costs (which I refuse to do)
It's not always that sound, i've been searching flight schools in philippines and they don't do as what they say . . My friends been there too and no corruption happened. .try it, it's worth a try. . Be smart enough to know what really was the trick!
Read the career guidance chapter on the Flight Training College website. Flight Training South Africa Pilot Training Garden Route FTC is in George on the southern cape of South Africa and have a few tips on how to avoid the con-artist scams. Flight training is an expensive business so make sure you get value for money. By the same token - make sure YOU are committed to your dream. Lots of students are very lazy and spend their time wasting their sponsors money. Don't expect the flight school to do you any favors if you don't work hard. If you are lazy, learning to fly will be MUCH more expensive than it needs to be. If you aren't prepared to fly regularly you will be repeating lessons, and that costs money! If you don't study, you will be repeating exams, and that costs money! Just like universities won't guarantee you a degree, nor will any decent flight school guarantee your success. These days students think if they just pitch up with the cash - that will be enough to pass. Not in this business!!! Be warned - don't start flying unless you are prepared to work hard! Otherwise you will lose a LOT of money! That is the most common way the con-artists will catch you. If you are lazy you will be easy pickings. Seldom have I seen a hard working student ripped off but I've seen plenty sluggards lose it all.
As with any investment a good way to reduce risk is to diversify. An old hand aeromed senior pilot advised me to do each stage of my training at a different school. You get to meet more people and experience more "flavours" of instructor so that if you get a dud who teaches it the wrong way you will realise it when the next shows you something different. Schools want you to sign up for all your training to win your business. A good quality school will win your repeat business buy providing you with a quality service. P.S. I have tried 3 schools but keep going back to my local aeroclub.
I did my initial flying in New Zealand at the Nelson Aviation College. It is a great environment and FTO to do your training. They have incredible high standards and flying in the South Island is breathtaking and challenging. You will, guarranteed, have the best time of your life
NAC have a long history and hunreds of pilots have gone there before you. Ask them for references.
I don’t know whether this is too far off topic, but this scam rears its head every now and then, so maybe worth adding for the youngsters here who may not have come across it before.
It all starts with a credible advert for first officers – type rating not required. Applicants will be invited for interviews, usually in a nice hotel at a major airport. The interview is quite credible. There may even be more than one stage of selection. The employer will be credible too; it will be an attractive job. The only slight snag is that you have to pay for your own type rating. Shortly after the interview you’ll be offered the job. If you accept, a bill for the type rating costs will appear. When you have paid it, you’ll hear nothing more. Eventually, you may be tempted to contact the airline or BJ operator; however, when you do so you’ll find that they know nothing of the people or process you have just been through. No type rating, no job and no sign of the scammers.
How Long is an Hour?
Other traps your young players? How about what’s a chargeable flying hour? There is an ICAO definition along the lines of flight time is when the aircraft first moves under its own power until it comes to a final stop. This is often referred to as ‘chock-to-chock times’. Is that what you are being charged for? Is that what you are logging? Because there are several variations on that clear definition. Some of these are:
Notional chock to chock times. This is when the flight time is taken as first take-off to final landing plus a ‘standard’ allowance for taxying. Legally, you may log less than chock to chock but not more time. So in cases where there is often a long hold before departure, this system may be to your benefit as you will be charged for less time than the chock-to-chock time; and sitting for 30 minutes waiting for departure at Kidlington is not very good training! However, some schools may be over-generous in their standard chock-to-chock allowance meaning that you actually receive less training than you pay for.
Hobbs time. This is a favourite in the US, where Hobbs meters are used for just about everything. However, the Hobbs meter may start running when the battery master switch is turned on. If your CFI (for the non-FAA jurisdiction readers, that means Certified Flight Instructor, rather than Chief Flying Instructor) is paid by the hour it is in her or his interests that the flights are as long as possible. He or she is not paid for briefing or debriefing; but will be paid once the power is on and the Hobbs meter is ticking. That’s why your instructor will be quite happy to sit in the aircraft chatting away with you both before and after engine start. Is it a big issue? I once knew a flight school owner who did not know that this was going on. When it was pointed out to him, he did a comparison on his aircraft fleet between Hobbs time and Tacho time (which runs only when the engine is turning) and found a 20% discrepancy!
Pay for Training Using a Credit Card
I think this has already been covered, but in the UK and some other territories, paying by credit card protects you in the event of the supplier going bust. In the UK the relevant legislation is Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. The credit card company is ‘jointly and severally’ liable to you with the supplier in the event of a claim by you. Even if you have paid only a deposit using the credit card, they are liable for the whole amount. N.b. there is a potential loophole for them if the course is not sold as a whole, but is sold as several elements, e.g. by flying hours, Groundschool separate from Flying, etc. If in doubt, pay for the whole lot using a credit card (not a debit card); and, if you can, use a cash-back card so you get some of the money back (1% on a course costing thousands will pay for your celebratory meal on graduation!)
Find out how your school logs and charges for flying hours before you sign up with them. If it is fair and legal, no worries…(but don’t pay up front or, if you do, use a credit card). Treat every job offer with a pinch of salt and be very careful about handing large amounts of money over on the promise of flight training, a job or whatever. And, above all, try and make sure that you log the same number of take-offs as full-stop landings.