Where to hour build in Florida?

[adam75]

hi, I m now in Florida at st augustine. I get a pa28 warrior for 96 dollars/h the school is really nice and the people are great starting from the ower of the school
tha name of the school is FLORIDA FLYERS but the school is from germany.

bya

[A and C]

Adam75

Lets have the whole truth, is that $96/ hour Tacho or hobbs? or is it take off to landing?

How much is the hotel ?

What did the airline ticket & transfers cost?

Did you have to rent a car?

Only then can we see what the true cost per hour is.

It is very little use hoursbuilders posting opinion, what we want to see is hard fact, only then will the true costs be clear.

I have the distinct feeling that a lot of the guys who post about hour building on this forum are deluding themselfs into thinking that they have got a very good deal, when in fact if they looked at the numbers in the cold light of day they would find that they would have spent the same or less money flying in Europe.................... the problem is that they are not going to admit the fact on these pages.

[SweetChariotXV]

Florida Flyers European US Flightschool, Inc. - Our Fleet/Rates

ba.com (£399 rtn to orlando on random dates 31/05 rtn 11/06)

Cheap Car Hire - Find and book great car hire rates on Expedia.co.uk

Best Western Oceanfront – a fine Jacksonville Beach hotel.

I'm not about to start calculating the costs... but 3 mins on google, a bit of research, and plenty of pointless questions can be avoided being asked on here.

Hourbuilding US v Hourbuilding UK / EU - pro's and cons to both in my opinion. Do your research and do whats personally best for you.

[A and C]

OK then, the idiots guide to hour building costs in the USA:-

£ 399 airline ticket +£20 to get to LHR

4 weeks cheap motel $39/night = $1932

$ weeks car hire £348

Aircraft (C152) $74 hour 80 hours = $5920

Using todays £/$ rate we get a total of £5713 or an hourly cost of £71.40

As this is just an internet traul I am sure that other incidentals would bump up the pricebut I suspect by no more than £1-2 / hour.


Dane-ger has actualy done the hour building in the UK and Quotes an ALL INCLUSIVE price of £78/hour in an aircraft he discribes as "looking like new". That price drops to £63/hour if you pop across to France.

As you can see the numbers are very close but my guess is that if things go wrong you would stand a much better chance of getting your money back this side of the Atlantic.

[Mordacai]

Hi just my two cents,

Whatever you do, wherever you go just please make sure you make the most of it - i.e. structure your hour building with some challenging routes, different classes or airspace. Don't do the classic lake Okeechobee orbit...yes it takes two hours but you learn nothing!

Have fun

PS Did you know that some schools are offering all inclusive packages at the moment, which includes housing, car etc?

[adam75]

for A and C


I just said how much was the airplane.. i want to help.. and on my opinion flying in Florida is a nice experience. that s all..I also needed to come here because it s something that y have to try.. al lot of traffic and all the planes are treated as one. no matter if y are a 747 or a pa28..

but What I really don t understand is why so many english people think they are so special and that the rest of the world is ****hole.. really it starts pissing me off

by the way good luck for for your time building. I got tired of writing something about the thread and facing these anger people just spiting **** on everything..

bye

[youngskywalker]

I think the term is British people not just English, subtle difference!

To be honest I've seen as many "death trap aircraft" if thats what you wish to call them at most UK schools. It's not limited to the USA. My last flight in the States, two weeks ago, was in a lovely well maintened Seneca, much better than the crap I've flown over here recently.

I'm not saying you can't hour build cheaply in the UK, I built all my hours in Europe. All I'm saying is, don't discount the States just based on the usual misconceptions that are constantly spouted on here. You might just even learn something from the Americans while you are there, but that truly is pushing the limits of the imagination for some people on this site!

[A and C]

Reply to the two posts above

Adam75

Thank you for your eliquent and informative reply it has added new depth and understanding to this subject, I am sure that hours builders will value your contribution.

Youngskywalker

Having an FAA CPL/IR including about 2000 hours flying for a part 121 airline I think I that you are correct about learning from the americans, I enjoyed my time in the USA (apart from tha appauling TV!) but I can see it for what it is, the rock bottom price aircraft are death traps when and if they fly, to get a good aircraft you will pay about 50% more. The weather is not as good as some would like you to understand.
I don't think that I have a lot of misconseptions about flying in the USA and see the advantages of both sides of the Atlantic.
What I do want hours builders to think about is the options, in the UK a lot of people go on about "rip-off UK" and let that cloud the judgment.

They think that hours are just for the logbook and get back to the UK to find that they are totaly unprepaired for the CPL flight test in a UK enviroment resulting in more money spent training to get up to standard for the test.

With the fall in the value of the pound the USA is becoming a marginal option on cost and I think that this has tipped the balance in the direction of Europe at the moment, don't get me wrong flying in the USA will still be fun but just as much fun can be had by heading south in Europe just two days of hour building can take you from the UK to Spain. Why not do that....... the food is better!

[adam75]

I think the term is British people not just English, subtle difference!



y re right! sorry.

[potkettleblack]

If your going to use big words then the correct spelling is eloquent. Which UK FTO do you have a vested interest in?

[mad_jock]

If I was doing my hour building again and could get a deal for dry hire like A and C has been talking about I wouldn't be going to FL again.

Pick up the plane with a fresh 50 hour check done.
4 bottles of oil in the back.
A tent.
A chart of Europe with all the places you can get avgas

And don't stop at France head south for 25 hours of flying and go for a Tapas in Gib then come back.

Then get another 50 hour done and don't stop at France and go for a moose burger in Lapland in the artic circle in Finland and back.

Might cost you a bit more but by hell if you get to an interview and get asked "Whats your most memorable experience in aviation so far?"

The interviewing Pilots are going to be so gobbed smacked you have actually done something with your hour building. And if your really lucky someone on the panel will run their own light aircraft. Jobs a goodun all those questions will disappear because they actually have someone who has done something interesting that they are jealous because they would want to do it.

Straight to the sim young man. And you can bet your last dollar that whoever will be running the sim will have heard of your trip.

[34munich]

madmal,

I have done both - Ca & Fl. weather is the only thing better - there isn't much to be saved. I have had great trips in Fl down to the Keys out to Bahamas and all over Fl and up to New Orleans. Same in Calif to Las vegas and over Grand Canyon.

I'm in Dublin Flyers in Weston and we have a PA28 Cherokee and a PA28 Arrow (complex) its €40 a month plus €150/ hr tacho for the Arrow. Lots of contacts with the airlines if you want to go flying as a career.

email me and I can give you details

Regards

[A and C]

Potkettelblack

I have to confess to two vested interests, the first is that I have not enjoyed sitting next to some of the graduates from the magenta line kindergartens who won't take out the autopilot below 200 ft and go heads down on the FMC below FL100 when in a busy TMA. I want to see a bit more practical airmanship from the right seat. I think that 80 hours of post PPL flying is likely to help no end in this area.

The second is that I offer high quality aircraft to hours builders at a price that can match if not beat the prices in the USA.

My wish is to help the new aspiring fATPL's to get the best deal for themselves, to not be taken in by the USA is always best brigade who don't do the sums properly and end up paying more in the long run.
To this end I offer a simple transparent pricing policy so that the hours builder can see exactly what the flying will cost and give them the opportunity to control some of the costs by using common sense and preflight planning.

I hope that this is clears up my views on the subject & thanks for the spelling leason

[Bahee 96]

I did a PPL in Florida and really enjoyed it. I want to renew my sep this July in California. Anyone know any jaa approved schools out there??

Cheers

[FlyCorona]

I have no first-hand knowledge about this, but we have a few folks doing the following at our airport -- I thought I'd throw in a data point, to consider the very cheap-end, since we got mentioned

This is probably the barest bones approach to time building, or at least, that I've ever seen. I give them kudos for figuring it out. I'm sure this sort of strategy works in numerous airports in the USA as well, possibly even cheaper against the airfare for the east coast.

using ba.com: LHR-LAX 402 GBP Return ($647)

accomodations with one of our pilots: $300 per mo for a room in a private home (we helped set this up)

bicycle to the airport (really, 3 so far have done it this way. otherwise, $39/day is pretty accurate and adds $1200): nil.

aircraft: C150 @ $65/hr x 80 hours: $5200

= $6,147 USD or 3818 GBP (at 1.61 GBP per USD), or 47.72 GBP per hour.

It's not for everyone, that's for sure.

Cheers,

- Mike
GM, Fly Corona

[bryan1978]

For Time Builders

Check out Riverside Flight Center in Tulsa, OK. A pat 141 school. Did all my training there, no problem getting a plane weather is pretty good this time of the year. There are a variety of students, from India, Sri Lanka and from Europe, and the owner is from Europe. They also provide a place to stay and free shuttle to and from school, wal mart and apartments.

[Charlie Zulu]

Another option which hasn't raised its eyebrow on this thread as of yet is to buy a share in an aeroplane that is maintained to the highest of standards and probably looks a lot nicer than most club aircraft.

This is a great way to get to know new people as well as learning all about maintenance schedules. However this is more for the longer term and is suited for someone who wishes to fly general aviation aeroplanes after their "hour building" time.

For some example figures I paid £4,375 for my 1/8 share in a TB9. Standing order of £90 per month and an hourly rate of £66 wet. All landings at our home airfield, Fife, are included. Taking these figures as an example, over a three month period for your "hour building" session that would work out to be:

80 Hours * £66 = £5,280
3 Months * £90 = £270
Purchase = £4,375

This works out to be £9,925 which per hour would be £124.06 but if you take the purchase price out of the equation because of course you can always sell your share afterwards, this would take the hourly rate down to £69.38 per hour wet.

The drawback is that some groups don't really like hour builders buying into the group but if you buy into the group for the long term...

I personally haven't bought my share for hour building as I have many hundreds of hours already and bought it as I moved to Scotland last year and wished to be part of a group once again. The TB9 share came up and I jumped at the chance.

However in saying this I am still all for flying over in the United States. When I say United States I don't simply mean Florida. Go over to the western states or up north. The scenery is a lot more varied and you'll have a great time as well as putting all of that theory of density altitudes into practice.

I still fondly look back on my time flying in around California, Nevada, Arizona etc and wouldn't change it for the world. However I was hiring an aeroplane in California simply as a touring holiday not just for "hour building". I liked it so much that I went back the year after.

Before California I spent a couple of weeks in Florida doing the same touring... still great fun but so prefer the western states. I have since been back to Florida on a few occassions for my FAA CPL/IR/MEP (or rather FAA CP-IA-ASEL-AMEL) courses.

Granted once you factor in accommodation, flights, food, the weak pound etc then the hourly rate will probably be on par with those at the local flying club in the United Kingdom or elsewhere in Europe.

Basically don't look at the "hour building" stage as simply something you have to do before starting the CPL course. Use it to do something different. Something that you can use to your advantage at the interview. This will give you a great advantage and the interview panel will likely remember you which can only be a good thing (hopefully). For this I can whole heartedly agree with mad_jock.

[A and C]

Charlie Zulu

That is the way that I went with my hour building and very much enjoyed the time I had with the aircraft share, however I did have to a lot of unforeseen maintenance that would have cost a lot if I had not been able to do it myself.

The other problem for the person aspiring to the ATPL is that aircraft shares can be slow to re-sell an this might result in a cash flow problem.

I certainly would not dismiss aircraft ownership as a way to build hours but it is a bit unpredictable on the finical front.

[Dane-Ger]

I think people are still missing the point here about hour building. you have to consider it as part of your training, it is so important that you get your nav in order, you try to land at as many different airports from large controlled ones to small grass fields. you have to be able to keep your altitude spot on and not loose headings, you have to be able to cope with all sorts of weather and visibility with confidence.

It doesn't matter how cheap your hour building is if your 25 hour CPL course becomes a 50 hour one because your skills aren't up to it. then there is no saving at all. even a resit on the CPL costs £1000, even more on the MEIR.

I would love to fly in the USA (and will hopefully at some point), and did a week of flying in Spain as part of my hour building, this is also great experience but what I've found during the CPL course is that I would recommend doing a good chunk of your flying in the country you intend to sit the CPL in.

Just now I am doing nav trips into the scopttish mountains, coping with mountain wave and turbulance, it's hard enough mantaining datums without ever having experienced such weather before.

[madmal]

Florida Flyers?

Hi Guys,
Has anyone done any hour building with Florida Flyers?