ATPL exams: too soon?
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ATPL exams: too soon?
Hi All,
I'm close to finishing my PPL and having passed my Class 1 medical last month I'm keen to progress to a professional licence. I've decided to go ATPL by distance learning so I can keep my job, build my hours and avoid as much debt as possible. (Anybody want to buy a Lotus? Sob sob…..).
My question is this: Do people think it's a good idea to start ATPL ground exams soon after attaining a PPL?
Having finished my degree back in 2000 I’m now back into a groove of learning/revising etc. and want to maintain that momentum.
Obviously this is an entirely personal decision but I wanted to find out if anybody else has been through this experience.
Cheers all
Rish
I'm close to finishing my PPL and having passed my Class 1 medical last month I'm keen to progress to a professional licence. I've decided to go ATPL by distance learning so I can keep my job, build my hours and avoid as much debt as possible. (Anybody want to buy a Lotus? Sob sob…..).
My question is this: Do people think it's a good idea to start ATPL ground exams soon after attaining a PPL?
Having finished my degree back in 2000 I’m now back into a groove of learning/revising etc. and want to maintain that momentum.
Obviously this is an entirely personal decision but I wanted to find out if anybody else has been through this experience.
Cheers all
Rish
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You could start the ATPL's distance but I would advise that you fly as much as poss during summer 2009 and 2010 to try and get a total 150 hours by the time you have sat all 14 exams. So as you can start a CPL course.
By the way, do your night rating in the winter now or at the end of 2009. Long dark nights and you might be lucky to do it all in one night or 2 at a push.
If your going to be doing it all part time, you will need to think about your hour building. If you pass all 14 exams, you may be in a rush to hour build before those exams lapse (36 months from last exam passed I think) if you have not passed an IR flight test
Plan it out, start ATPL's distance now (Bristol Ground School) and plan to do stage 1 brush up and exams at the end of 2009, beginning of 2010. During this summer 2009, hour build when the weather is good.
In 2010, start mod 2 and plan to do mod 2 brush up sit exams for mod 2 in winter 2010 or early 2011.
2011 do CPL and IR
Enjoy yourself and remember, if your married, make time for your family
By the way, do your night rating in the winter now or at the end of 2009. Long dark nights and you might be lucky to do it all in one night or 2 at a push.
If your going to be doing it all part time, you will need to think about your hour building. If you pass all 14 exams, you may be in a rush to hour build before those exams lapse (36 months from last exam passed I think) if you have not passed an IR flight test
Plan it out, start ATPL's distance now (Bristol Ground School) and plan to do stage 1 brush up and exams at the end of 2009, beginning of 2010. During this summer 2009, hour build when the weather is good.
In 2010, start mod 2 and plan to do mod 2 brush up sit exams for mod 2 in winter 2010 or early 2011.
2011 do CPL and IR
Enjoy yourself and remember, if your married, make time for your family
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I'm right in thinking that you can take as long as you want on distance learning before you take that first exam arn't I (and then the clock starts for you to finish them)? I so then why not just buy the course books, etc, read them all through until you know them quite well and have quite a few hours (like EGCC4284 said) and then take them.
Thats what I'm planning. Finish PPL, buy ATLP books, get 100ish hours, take exams, take CPL, take IR, get FIR, get married, have kids, retire and die.
P.S. my flight instructor (and the school) say that the hours prior to taking CPL is 200 not 150. Any reason why this could be as I thought it was 150.
Thats what I'm planning. Finish PPL, buy ATLP books, get 100ish hours, take exams, take CPL, take IR, get FIR, get married, have kids, retire and die.
P.S. my flight instructor (and the school) say that the hours prior to taking CPL is 200 not 150. Any reason why this could be as I thought it was 150.
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Any reason why this could be as I thought it was 150.
150 hours to start the CPL training. 200 hours to apply for the licence afterwards.
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Rishy,
I'm registered with Bristol Groundschool and will be back in Newcastle next week, if you want to take a look at the material. I know a few other members of NFS who are enrolled with Bristol if you're looking for a study buddy.
Rick
I'm registered with Bristol Groundschool and will be back in Newcastle next week, if you want to take a look at the material. I know a few other members of NFS who are enrolled with Bristol if you're looking for a study buddy.
Rick
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I'm right in thinking that you can take as long as you want on distance learning before you take that first exam arn't I (and then the clock starts for you to finish them)?
The 18 months to complete the exams is another time limit. Your DL school should explain this to you.
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chrisbl
I am not sure and no expert, but I think the 18 month time limit to complete all 14 exams starts when you sit the first exam, not when you sign up to the school doing the course.
I think you have 4 attempts at each exam or a total of 6 sittings before you have to retake all, even those that you have allready passed.
So I think Bristol do 8 subjects in module 1 then when you sit those 8 exams, that counts as one sitting.
Mod 2 at Bristol is the remaining 6 subjects and when you sit those 6 exams, that count as a second sitiing. So you must not exceed 4 attempt at a subject or a max of 6 sitting or you will have to sit all exams again.
Alex, can you clarify on this please.
You then need 150 hours total to start your CPL training (49 hpurs of that can be your PPL training) and dont forget 300nm cross country I think. You must also of done so many hours solo cross country to get CPL licence issued, so find that out and make sure you mark in your log book which flight were cross country trips. I just marked all those that were longer than 80 minutes.
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Good luck all and dont give up
I am not sure and no expert, but I think the 18 month time limit to complete all 14 exams starts when you sit the first exam, not when you sign up to the school doing the course.
I think you have 4 attempts at each exam or a total of 6 sittings before you have to retake all, even those that you have allready passed.
So I think Bristol do 8 subjects in module 1 then when you sit those 8 exams, that counts as one sitting.
Mod 2 at Bristol is the remaining 6 subjects and when you sit those 6 exams, that count as a second sitiing. So you must not exceed 4 attempt at a subject or a max of 6 sitting or you will have to sit all exams again.
Alex, can you clarify on this please.
You then need 150 hours total to start your CPL training (49 hpurs of that can be your PPL training) and dont forget 300nm cross country I think. You must also of done so many hours solo cross country to get CPL licence issued, so find that out and make sure you mark in your log book which flight were cross country trips. I just marked all those that were longer than 80 minutes.
Welcome to Bristol.gs
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I have happy memories of my time at Bristol.
Good luck all and dont give up
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Thanks for all your views people. Pretty much what I thought - starting ATPL exams asap is a good thing.
Think I'm gonna plump for BGS, starting as soon as I get my licence!!
Think I'm gonna plump for BGS, starting as soon as I get my licence!!
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4284
Please read what I wrote. I said there were two 18 month time limits. One is for the exams and the other is for the course.
You are right on one thing- you are no expert.
This is from the Oxford website:
Please read what I wrote. I said there were two 18 month time limits. One is for the exams and the other is for the course.
You are right on one thing- you are no expert.
This is from the Oxford website:
Distance Learning
If you approach your ATPL(A) Ground Training this way then you will have to complete 2 key sections:
.
If you approach your ATPL(A) Ground Training this way then you will have to complete 2 key sections:
1. Complete our Home Study Course
2. Complete 2 x two week Skills Revision Classes with us at Oxford Airport
Our Home Study course allows you to commence training at any time once you have your PPL(A) and learn at your own individual pace. Study time is flexible, subject to the course being completed within 18 months. Additionally, once you have sat your first JAA examination, you must pass all 14 written exams, also within 18 months. (More deleted).
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That sound like Oxford's own rule. I enrolled on a DL course then due to circumstances, didn't actually start studying until nearly two years later. I explained the situation to the school and they agreed to honour the course fee I had paid prior with no extra to pay. I then started the studying, brush-up courses etc and finished a further year later.
I am not aware of any JAA rule which states you must complete the groundschool in I8 months so if this IS the case, please quote the relevant section from JAR-FCL.
Rishy, if it may take some time to build your hours to 50, get some second hand manuals and start now if you want. You will, of course, get another set of manuals when you enrol on a course. There was a website (but I've lost the link) that published the Jeppeson/Atlantic Flight Training manuals in .pdf format for online, free viewing.
Cheers
Whirls
Edit - look what I found
Index of /materialy/testy
OK, the site is Polish and this is the root directory but you can download some manuals and the Volare Italian Question Bank.
I am not aware of any JAA rule which states you must complete the groundschool in I8 months so if this IS the case, please quote the relevant section from JAR-FCL.
Rishy, if it may take some time to build your hours to 50, get some second hand manuals and start now if you want. You will, of course, get another set of manuals when you enrol on a course. There was a website (but I've lost the link) that published the Jeppeson/Atlantic Flight Training manuals in .pdf format for online, free viewing.
Cheers
Whirls
Edit - look what I found
Index of /materialy/testy
OK, the site is Polish and this is the root directory but you can download some manuals and the Volare Italian Question Bank.
Last edited by Whirlygig; 3rd Feb 2009 at 23:22. Reason: The one button doesn't work on me lappy
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Honestly did not know you had 18 months to complete the distance course and the exams, thought it was as I wrote.
You are correct, I am no expert and I know this.
Captains dont like experts, it pisses them off.
Always wanting to learn more from those that know better.
You are correct, I am no expert and I know this.
Captains dont like experts, it pisses them off.
Always wanting to learn more from those that know better.
Hovering AND talking
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Well, when you cease to be a pert, you become an ex-pert Gedditt???
Cheers
Whirls
Is that my coat? Why, thank you.
Gedditt??? Cheers
Whirls
Is that my coat? Why, thank you.
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Sorry, I wasn't paying attention. There's only one 18 month rule. The maximum duration of the course is set by Appendix 1 to JAR-FCL 1.285 paragraph 2 which says:
An applicant wishing to undertake an ATPL(A) modular course of theoretical knowledge instruction shall be required under the supervision of the Head of Training of an approved FTO to complete 650 hours (1 hour = 60 minutes instruction) of instruction for ATPL theory within a period of 18 months. An applicant shall be the holder of a PPL(A) issued in accordance with ICAO Annex 1.
There is some discussion as to when the period should start, though, as the regulation doesn’t make it clear. The UK CAA follow the rule in Appendix 1 to JAR-FCL 1.130 which actually refers to the PPL. It says:
Subject to any other conditions in JAR–FCL, an applicant shall be deemed to have successfully completed the theoretical examinations for the PPL(A) when awarded a pass in all parts within a period of 18 months, counted from the end of the calendar month when the applicant first attempted an examination.
and, as a consequence, LASORS Section J1.5 (a UK only document) says:
A candidate must complete all required written examination papers within 18 months of their first sitting.
This means that, as candidates tend to take their first exam after 6 months or so of study, in the UK they effectively have just over two years from start to finish to complete the course.
An applicant wishing to undertake an ATPL(A) modular course of theoretical knowledge instruction shall be required under the supervision of the Head of Training of an approved FTO to complete 650 hours (1 hour = 60 minutes instruction) of instruction for ATPL theory within a period of 18 months. An applicant shall be the holder of a PPL(A) issued in accordance with ICAO Annex 1.
There is some discussion as to when the period should start, though, as the regulation doesn’t make it clear. The UK CAA follow the rule in Appendix 1 to JAR-FCL 1.130 which actually refers to the PPL. It says:
Subject to any other conditions in JAR–FCL, an applicant shall be deemed to have successfully completed the theoretical examinations for the PPL(A) when awarded a pass in all parts within a period of 18 months, counted from the end of the calendar month when the applicant first attempted an examination.
and, as a consequence, LASORS Section J1.5 (a UK only document) says:
A candidate must complete all required written examination papers within 18 months of their first sitting.
This means that, as candidates tend to take their first exam after 6 months or so of study, in the UK they effectively have just over two years from start to finish to complete the course.
Last edited by Alex Whittingham; 4th Feb 2009 at 09:45.