Raw data flying
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Raw data flying
Hello,
I was wondering if it is in your company allowed to do raw data flying, more specific during departure and approach; and if so, in what kind of conditions??
Last week i did some in very ****ty weather, and i was happy to be on the ground.
Although i have the impression i have to sharp my flying skills and that the sim sessions are not sufficient.
Tell me your opinions/experience about that.
I was wondering if it is in your company allowed to do raw data flying, more specific during departure and approach; and if so, in what kind of conditions??
Last week i did some in very ****ty weather, and i was happy to be on the ground.
Although i have the impression i have to sharp my flying skills and that the sim sessions are not sufficient.
Tell me your opinions/experience about that.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Hi Brie,
Thats a chees#y# name no?
My airline allows and encourages manual flying in situations when traffic and weather arent too much of a factor.
Concerning the raw data flying,flying a 737 myself, i not only allow but encourage my fos to do so.FDs/AT/AP off and ask for vectoring:-)
Some havent had the chance to fly other aircrafts than ZE LNAV slave making Jets ,so in that case yes SIMS arent just not enough.
When some are comfortable with the handling,situation awareness,following sops during nice weather, i let them do the same in IMC.
However I discourage flying a raw data DEPARTURE in busy environment(ie UK) as it may overload the pilot and may induce potential noise abatements problems,track deviations and level busts.
Always ask your captain BEFORE you decide to fly raw data during descent/arrival to allow for a proper briefing.(ie when to recycle FDS,set missed appr alt...rearming a/t in case of a G/A...) if he gladly agrees you are in good hands,if he seems unsure..try it with another Capt the next day.
Enjoy your flights!
Capt Std
Thats a chees#y# name no?
My airline allows and encourages manual flying in situations when traffic and weather arent too much of a factor.
Concerning the raw data flying,flying a 737 myself, i not only allow but encourage my fos to do so.FDs/AT/AP off and ask for vectoring:-)
Some havent had the chance to fly other aircrafts than ZE LNAV slave making Jets ,so in that case yes SIMS arent just not enough.
When some are comfortable with the handling,situation awareness,following sops during nice weather, i let them do the same in IMC.
However I discourage flying a raw data DEPARTURE in busy environment(ie UK) as it may overload the pilot and may induce potential noise abatements problems,track deviations and level busts.
Always ask your captain BEFORE you decide to fly raw data during descent/arrival to allow for a proper briefing.(ie when to recycle FDS,set missed appr alt...rearming a/t in case of a G/A...) if he gladly agrees you are in good hands,if he seems unsure..try it with another Capt the next day.
Enjoy your flights!
Capt Std
Raw Data flying? The only way to travel. When doing one of my first line checks, the training captain aksed what type of approach I would be doing back at the airfield. I thought I needed to do it so said a 'self positioned, raw data hand flown ILS' What a nut! I could have done it fully coupled, radar vectored etc but no, I made life difficult for myself. DOH!
As I fly offshore helis, so i guess it's slightly different, but I still fly nearly every other sector I do as PF, Raw Data hand flown, no matter what the weather is doing. If it's really bad, push the buttons.
No good an LPC/OPC coming around and having to hand fly it and not having practiced it! We aren't allowed to couple up on LPC's, even though the ops manual says we should use AP whenever we can!!! Go figure!
As I fly offshore helis, so i guess it's slightly different, but I still fly nearly every other sector I do as PF, Raw Data hand flown, no matter what the weather is doing. If it's really bad, push the buttons.
No good an LPC/OPC coming around and having to hand fly it and not having practiced it! We aren't allowed to couple up on LPC's, even though the ops manual says we should use AP whenever we can!!! Go figure!
Supercharged PPRuNer
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It's not specifically banned, but I don't personally know anyone who would choose to fly raw data - that's why we have a flight director.
Nothing wrong with a bit of hand flying to keep in practice, but turning off something as useful (and reliable) as the flight director strikes me as a bit over the top.
Nothing wrong with a bit of hand flying to keep in practice, but turning off something as useful (and reliable) as the flight director strikes me as a bit over the top.
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GSXTY
Totally disagree with you.
Flying raw data lets say from first radar vectors is not only enjoyable but gives confidence to flight crews.
I often fly without flight directors,Paris,amsterdam,london,vienna...and achieve all requirements of the airline and airport im flying to.
It is enough to once see a Training Captain flying manual(APs not engageable)with one hand and the other playing with the MCP!!!
Capt STD
Maybe airbus is different but 737s,specially NGs are just so stable and fun to fly.
Totally disagree with you.
Flying raw data lets say from first radar vectors is not only enjoyable but gives confidence to flight crews.
I often fly without flight directors,Paris,amsterdam,london,vienna...and achieve all requirements of the airline and airport im flying to.
It is enough to once see a Training Captain flying manual(APs not engageable)with one hand and the other playing with the MCP!!!
Capt STD
Maybe airbus is different but 737s,specially NGs are just so stable and fun to fly.
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Hear hear!
I try to do it if I feel like it (and I do feel like it a lot...) But it depends on the weather, how busy the environment is and whether your captain is comfortable with it.
Especially a Captain you've never flown with will be less tempted to let you switch of FD's. Like today
What's the point of disconnecting if you are following a crosshair?
Still though if you do it, make sure you brief for it as most of the guys flying are quite comfortable with all the automatics in place.
Once decided to switch all off in IMC cloudbase at 300 feet. Captain let me continue as I flew with him before, but gave me a right bollocking after the shutdown checks...
And in hindsight, fair enough!!!
(Still, nice approach though, makes you feel really good)
737 is indeed very nice to fly
I try to do it if I feel like it (and I do feel like it a lot...) But it depends on the weather, how busy the environment is and whether your captain is comfortable with it.
Especially a Captain you've never flown with will be less tempted to let you switch of FD's. Like today
What's the point of disconnecting if you are following a crosshair?Still though if you do it, make sure you brief for it as most of the guys flying are quite comfortable with all the automatics in place.
Once decided to switch all off in IMC cloudbase at 300 feet. Captain let me continue as I flew with him before, but gave me a right bollocking after the shutdown checks...
And in hindsight, fair enough!!! (Still, nice approach though, makes you feel really good)
737 is indeed very nice to fly
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Occasionally, with the Capt's agreement, I sometimes choose to disconnect at FL100ish and perhaps get the Captain to take the FD off on final. Keeping on top of raw data handling is important as flying is a multi-faceted skill and all areas need regular exercise. However, the most important thing is managing the flight as a whole which really requires automation to keep work load down for both pilots in anything less than excellent VMC and a low traffic environment (as previously mentioned).
Yes, the 737 is very easy to pole around the sky, but if it does get unstable the situation can deteriorate incredibly rapidly!
Yes, the 737 is very easy to pole around the sky, but if it does get unstable the situation can deteriorate incredibly rapidly!
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It depends on the airline. In my opinion hte autopilot is there to relieve the workload on the crew. We have a training capt in my company very nice chap he puts on the autopilot before you know it and sometimes when acting as a safety pilot i can see why.
