Professional Pilot Training (includes ground studies)A forum for those on the steep path to that coveted professional licence. Whether studying for the written exams, training for the flight tests or building experience here's where you can hang out.
I don't want to put a damper on things 'cause I know there's a fair few around that do that already. What I'd like to know are the bad aspects to piloting or the aspects that aspiring pilots should watch out for.....
I'm realistic so I like to know exactly what I'm getting into. I asked a Ryanair pilot the same question recently and his response was the hours and not having weekends off. To me that's minor because the majority of jobs nowadays have odd hours. But are there anymore bad aspects?
There are good and bad aspects to any job. Flying isn't particularly different in that regard. The problem is that the "dream" only exists when it is not simply a Job. For most people and whatever job they do, the rewards or the success is often measured in monetary terms. That isn't to say that money is all that matters in life or money should be the only goal, but it is nevertheless an intrinsic tool in most peoples aspiration or desired lifestyle. Flying might be the be all and end all when you are young, but for most people there comes partners, children, housing, transport, holidays, clothes, food, utilities, insurance, security, schooling, lifestyle enhancements, saving etc. All of these things become part of the everyday mix and routine of life. Any job plays a very large part of an individuals daily life, and it is how that interacts with these other things that will dictate the good and bad aspects. The degree of these will change from person to person, with many of the same same subjects being a common source of irritation or angst.
The job often entails very long working weeks often with no regular pattern. The hours cycle back and forwards around a 24 hour clock disrupting sleep patterns. These cycles can continue week in and week out for large portions of the year.
The job is (barring your leave and to some extent your days off) a 24/7/365 occupation. Birthdays, anniversaries, Christmas, important dates to you, are nothing more than an ordinary work day. You will frequently find yourself frustrated by an inability to apply sufficient control over your own calender. Notwithstanding this, when you have others in your life to support, they too will experience the disappointment of not being able to rely on you being able to control your own life, to always accomodate them.
The job can often cause enormous frustration with aspects such as rosters, promotion, fleet changes, the disparity of work allocation level from base to base, the perceived rewards from fleet to fleet or base to base. There are frequent and sometimes enormous disparities either real or perceived, that may prove to be long term irritations.
It is a job with a high level of social and professional interaction with other people. You are going to be working in close proximity and for often long days with people, some of whom you will most definetaly not warm to. Nevertheless you are required to achieve a professional standard at all times and to be able to set aside any personality differences. There are times (hopefully few) when that requires a great deal of effort. On top of this that professional standard will subject you to scrutiny and criticism, and you must be able to accept this and discriminate the information provided such that you can learn and improve all the time, and throughout your career.
It is a job where the financial rewards can very quickly seem inadequate for the amount of continous effort and input required from you. The disruption is rarely rewarded. The job security can sometimes be very tenuous. Career progression can often involve taking large steps backwards in this respect. The job is dependent on being continously tested and assessed. You must maintain a standard of medical fitness. There are no guarantees.
Financially (as in many other careers) a lot of the terms and benefits have been eroded as the market has changed. Virtually no more defined benefit retirement plans, weaker loss of licence benefits, less generous heath and other insurance benefits. Capped and collared salary scales for new joiners. Seeing older and more senior pilots enjoying better terms and conditions to your own (same scale) projected benefits. Having to be bonded or contracted to training repayment costs that might not have existed historically. Seeing your friends or aquaintances enjoying bigger houses or better cars whilst seeming to have a more stable and less onerous work schedule.
The reality that having made it on to a companies career structure, the promotion stages and appointments as well as the rewards associated with them, are often few and glacial in the rapidity of advancement. Luck and being in the right place at the right time, will often play as large a part in your progress as skill and sound planning.
So, there's a few to be going on with. Your friend at Ryanair was probably being succinct when he summed it up as "the hours and not having weekends off". The job can become very routine and irritating. Of course all of this is balanced by the many benefits and opportunities this career can afford. With a degree of luck, it can be a very good and rewarding lifestyle. Opportunities to do things and go places that you might never otherwise do, are only one example. I and a vast number of other people have made a great career out of aviation. Hard work, perseverence and many a four leaf clover have made that happen. I am very glad to have had the opportunities I have been afforded, and sometimes I wonder how life would have turned out if I had made different choices or luck had worked another way, but on balance I have few regrets. Having said that I now see my own children embarking on this career, and realize that the industry is very changed from what it was 30, 20 and even 10 years ago. Whatever decisions they make and whatever the realities of todays market, many of the same rewards and frustrations will no doubt still be there.
I think it's gas. A lot of what you described there is much the same as I experienced in retail management. Getting time off was near impossible, often more because of personalities in the job than for the need of you being there. I felt the compensation was inadequate for time and effort put in also. The only difference I see between the two is that I want to fly, I didn't want to be a retail manager. To me, it was a means to an end. The money was good in comparison to many jobs but when you sized up everything you often came out wondering if you would be better off behind a checkout in Tescos. It took a while to become 'established' and there after start earning large amounts. I imagine it's much the same in aviation then.
It's good to know these things rather than turn up to work and be shocked by the politic and rhetoric of it all. I believe you got to do what you love or at least aspire to it because the work environment is invariably peppered with assholes and situations you won't like. At least if you're passionate about the role you can put the rest to the backround. Thanks again!
Bealzebub has given pretty much the definitive answer. I'd recommend anyone aspiring to this game to print it out and keep it handy for future reference. I can't top his comments, but because so many of the pros and cons of flying for a living are subjective, everyone will have their own opinion, each just as valid as the next. These are my thoughts, from a slightly different perspective - around six months' experience in the RHS of a regional turboprop.
I think of flying as rather like being in a long-term relationship. There's the initial 'wow' factor of falling in love, followed by a honeymoon period where we regard our new passion with starry-eyed wonderment. This wears off as the costs and aggravations begin to mount, but the love - the reason we got into it in the first place - remains. For some people the downsides are simply too many and too great, and they end up walking away. For those who stick at it, the relationship tends to be permanent.
I got into flying because I had a very comfortable day job which paid the bills but bored me silly, coupled with three hours' commuting to and from London, which I found excruciating. The yen to do something new led me to a trial lesson and I promptly fell in love. Very early on I decided I wanted to fly as a career - the lure of being paid to do my hobby was irresistible.
The trials and tribulations were there from the outset, and are familiar to anyone with a PPL - weather cancellations, financial struggles, frustration at the sheer cost of it all, exams that seem like pointless hoop-jumping exercises. Later on came the stress of commercial training, and the pressure of knowing that simple mistakes could (and did) cost thousands of pounds. After the elation of passing the IR comes the realisation that you are just one of many, many 200hr CPLs, and the struggle to find your first job. It takes some people years - a few will never manage it.
Even when your dream comes true and you have made it to an airline, you'll find plenty of downsides to the job. Life is ruled by your roster, and weekends off are a rare treat. Social events and family gatherings are almost impossible unless arranged months in advance. Five days on and two off sounds alright until you realise that the last day finishes at 22:00 and the first day back starts at 06:00. Arriving at work you are subjected to petty and nonsensical 'security' - you'll be locked in a flightdeck with a crash axe and given control of a 500mph aeroplane, but you'll have to take your shoes off before you get there, and you won't be allowed a can of deodorant for your nightstop.
Every six months you'll be locked in the simulator and have every conceivable failure thrown at you. The man in the back is keeping score, and it's pot luck whether he's a great instructor or someone on an ego trip. The consequences of failure are serious. If you're really unlucky it will all happen at three in the morning, and you'll be expected to be just as sharp as you would be during the day. Get used to it, because it's every six months for the rest of your career.
Line flying is much more relaxed, but even then there's the unspoken and insidious pressure of knowing that a bad day in the office - a single mistake even - could lead to a career interruption or kill people. Potentially hundreds of people. You'll be flying in all kinds of horrible weather, trained and conditioned to do everything on the automatics, then expected to fly competently with a u/s autopilot. You might be flying four or even six sector days, with 25 minute turnrounds, struggling to find time to eat a sandwich or go to the loo. Talking of which, your 'office' is the size of a downstairs toilet, and you'll be locked in it with a colleague who may have nothing in common with you except for the uniform.
The job is unhealthy - sitting inactively for hours on end, eating poor quality food and with high stress levels. You'll get regular colds, and attempting to fly with one can lead to a perforated eardrum. You might be unfortunate enough to breathe in noxious fumes on a regular basis, but don't worry because the engineers wrote 'no fault found' and the airline industry says it's not a problem.
That's enough downsides - I'm starting to depress myself now. The obvious question - if the job is that bad, why do we all still do it? I fly with a couple of captain who are in their sixties and can't possibly need the money - why do they still put themselves through all the grief? For me (and them) it's a simple answer that goes back to the relationship theme. We're in love with flying. Hopelessly, head over heels in love. I love the challenge of a complex and technically demanding job that few others can do. I'm a perfectionist, but I'll never fly the perfect flight - how's that for a lifelong challenge? I've known the drudgery of commuting to a dull-as-dishwater nine to five job, and I hated it with a passion. Not anymore - I look forward to going to work. Hell, I even miss my job when I'm on holiday. No two days are the same, and the view from my office window is different each day, but unfailingly spectacular. Despite all the downsides (and there are many) I can't imagine doing anything else. Most of my colleagues feel the same way, and that includes those captains who got their PPLs while I was in nappies.
Recently I came home from a long and tiring day, switched on the TV and watched a documentary about flying, then fell asleep and dreamed of flying. Once it gets under your skin, you'll never get it out.
Last edited by G SXTY : 24th November 2008 at 13:21.
G SXTY - good to read something positive on these pages, even if, at the back of our minds we know that now is a bleak time.
A love affair in the way you describe it is probably the most accurate way of putting it. Without that deep rooted love you are unlikely to make it over the seemingly insurmountable obstacles that stand in your way.
In lighter term be prepeared to make a lot of enimies. You will find yourself having to dissappoint freinds and relatives. Missing from birthdays, naming ceremonies, family reunions etc. Eventually they'll stop inviting you becauce they,ve figured out theres a likelyhood you wont turn up becauce you/ve been called out to work at the last minute or holed up in some hotyel room in one corner of the globe.
Your love/marriage life will also take a serious hit if care is not taken. However the reward might be that very few get to achieve thier dreams and you get to live yours and get paid for doing it. good luck
This is where PPRuNe comes good and where it's exceptionally useful. Both long posts should be required reading for starry eyed dreamers. I confess, I was one once.
I haven't hit the airline job yet but my kind of flying gives a taste of what the future might bring. You know the glamour has worn off when all you can think is that you wish you were at home with your wife and kids even though it's beautiful day for flying and you know this is what you worked for all your life. You know that it's become a job when the weather washes out your day's flying, and you're glad, even though your wife already has a 'few little jobs' for you to perform.
Nevertheless, you know it's more than a job when you come home exhausted but on a high because you did well that day. Or when you begin to get twitchy because you haven't flown in a while. Like me right now.
It's not unlike many jobs in the downsides you experience. I worked a fair few years on shift, three day weekends, nights, 60 hour weeks. The problem with these jobs is the lack of an upside. The only pleasure you get is from going home. At least flying generates some satisfaction.
The problem with flying however is like GSXTY says. 'Once it gets under your skin.'
I should really quit flying and get a sensible job now. I really should. Maybe I will this new year.....................maybe.
As was very correctly mentioned earlier, there is a time when the job of being an airline pilot is the be all and end all of everything - until it actually becomes a job!
I used to sit on my garden wall at home, with an airband radio, listening in with my two week old copy of Flight International donated by my cousin.
The "dream" was very much alive back then.
Now, almost six years down the road, since joining PPRuNe, I have flown jumpseat as part of my job on the entire Airbus and Boeing selection, with a smattering of trips on Embraers - short, medium and long haul.
While there is the serious glamour side to walking through the airport in uniform (even I get one) and the ooohs and ahhhhs from the anoraks, I find that the majority of my colleagues are bored shitless for most trips.
Long haul in particular is a chore.
There is only so much laying by the pool that can be done before it too becomes monotonous.
Depression can set in for a lot of people, and there are so many stories of marital break-ups and family pressures due to schedules and having to work when everyone else is on holidays.
I thought I was ready for the airlines. I'm not.
I get to call my own shots because of what I do. I get holidays when it is holiday time, I get more perks than the average line pilot - and here is the big kicker.....I get paid more then some line captains, and the majority of FOs.
This year, I have a serious amount of thinking to do about where I will go with this, but one thing is for sure - being an airline pilot is not what I hoped it would be.
very interesting me ex cabin crew. i also loved my job nothing ever put me off flying. every day was different. spent ten happy years.i wonder are you tall dark handsome? joanne
Very true, very true. (Not referring to the flirt though, I'm a ginger, short and rough faced).
G SXTY's, Bealzebub's and Farrell's post definitely made their point; the nuances that make the aviation lifestyle are rich, deep and extensive.
As life is in general...
Personally I believe there's nothing more dreadful in life than realizing one day that you've missed about every opportunity to do what you've always felt doing.
Thank you for your enlightment. I've read a lots of posts in regards of becoming an airline pilot. All those seems to tend to the fact that it demanding. But i think that airlines aren't the only option for pilots ? Am i right ? Isin't there bush piloting, and other type of piloting that can be done with out the inconvienience of the airlines ? ( Can you tell me if there is?)
I'm aware that the pay must not be as good but still i guess it is a choice for some life quality. I'm just thinking here, in Canada, there is that Cie called Cargair which operate hydroplanes for up noth hunting / fishing trips. Anyone aware of the conditions of such a job ? Or any other flying jobs aside from the big Airlines.
Yes, John there are other options. I have one. But of course there is a major downside. They don't pay well and as often as not take you away from home for long periods too. They are invariably more dangerous and invariably more insecure. I've barely made any money over the winter and my last take off made me more nervous than any I've ever had to do before.
Now if you're young, single and adventurous with no commitments. This may not be such an issue. But if you're married with kids and a mortgage, it becomes a serious issue. So the airline job idea looms large. Even young pilots flying in these jobs, know they must move on eventually.
There are some good and enjoyable flying jobs outside the airlines that pay well. But not many.
Sitting in the front left seat of an airliner beats the hell out of seven days of a seven day shift with a windy drill and rivet gun in the outboard end of a Boeing 707 fuel tank !
Bealzebub & the Welshman make good points but it's still the best way I have found to make money, some airlines have a bad atmosphere but I work for an airline that feels like a 78k flying club.
nice
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