PPRuNe Forums

Go Back   PPRuNe Forums > Wannabes Forums > Professional Pilot Training (includes ground studies)
Forgotten your Username/Password?
Register FAQ Calendar Advertise Mark Forums Read

Professional Pilot Training (includes ground studies) A forum for those on the steep path to that coveted professional licence. Whether studying for the written exams, training for the flight tests or building experience here's where you can hang out.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 18th July 2008, 15:19   #61 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Location Location
Age: 39
Posts: 763
Seems like only 6 months ago the $100 barrel of oil made the front page of the times (hang on a minute it was just 6 months ago............)

One of the more relevant points that Lafyar made was that its the media and peoples perception of recession that will fuel a downturn, not whats written on here. A small decrease in oil price when it has risen nearly 50% in 6 months I feel is not going to help matters much its a bit like having to stick your hand in water at 90 deg as opposed to Boiling - its still gonna hurt!

Lead in times for expansion and aircraft ordering are many years in the making, how can strategy planners in the aviation industry account for what is happening in 6 months (see above) never mind in 2015 which is when your 787 would pitch up if you ordered it today........

People mock Ryanair management for not hedging their fuel, on the day that the $100 barrel of oil made it to the front page, more intelligent people than me would have thoght it suicidal to hedge fuel at $110......... This climate is catching out some serious players - recruitment for wannabees is not going to be high on the agenda.
G-SPOTs Lost is offline   Reply
Old 18th July 2008, 16:58   #62 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 843
Oil Price Fall >10%

WWW

Those figures are acual - Oil dropped now by 11% !
RVR800 is offline   Reply
Old 18th July 2008, 17:16   #63 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 843
Good News

Oil Drops
BBC NEWS | Business | Oil recovers after four-day slump

FTSE Rise
BBC NEWS | Business | Market Data | Stock Markets | FTSE 100

Mortgage Dropped twice
BBC NEWS | Business | Nationwide to cut mortgage rates

Iran Problem Progress
BBC NEWS | World | Middle East | Iran hopeful about US 'approach'

Growth Better says IMF
http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/751176


WWW I demand your bottle of Dom Pérignon !!!!

Last edited by RVR800 : 18th July 2008 at 17:18. Reason: Dom Pérignon
RVR800 is offline   Reply
Old 18th July 2008, 17:44   #64 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,516
I would look at volatility indices to see if the FTSE is really rising, or the oil price abating. I believe VIX is still massive, so any daily rise can mean little on a trend basis, and simply that sentiment is hugely volatile from day to day.
Re-Heat is offline   Reply
Old 18th July 2008, 18:32   #65 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Brentford
Posts: 18
the only way to keep strong economy with rising fuel price is to increase energy efficiency, thats why US was affected more than Europe as they were slow to adopt various energy saving schemes.

question is, what would be the next step by the goverment to further improve energy efficiency?

Last edited by breakbreak : 18th July 2008 at 20:42.
breakbreak is offline   Reply
Old 18th July 2008, 19:57   #66 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 83
GSPOTS Lost, to be fair there was absolutely nothing wrong with Lafyar Cokov's Private Message and nothing rude or controversial about it either. The fact that you have chosen to make public a PRIVATE message shows a complete lack of class. Well for that you are the first person to make it onto MY ignore list!
RexBanner is offline   Reply
Old 19th July 2008, 00:31   #67 (permalink)
Probationary PPRuNer
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Somewhere In The South China Sea
Posts: 661
Agreed

GSPOTS, that was a pretty low thing to do by airing someone's PM in the public domain, what a snake

RexBanner refering to an earlier post (#47) of yours regarding who's going to fly all these new aircraft etc, I'd say the current crews are. Alot of new aircraft orders now are for fleet replacement programs to dispense of "old, dirty & fuel inefficient airframes" rather than for massive expansion.

Just my opinion

D777
Deano777 is offline   Reply
Old 19th July 2008, 04:35   #68 (permalink)
Formerly HWD
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Indochina
Age: 42
Posts: 137
Quote:
House prices will bottom out say May 2009
I feel that is too pesimistic, what we have at the moment are a load of chancers making rediculous offers purely on the back of media stories. The banks cannot afford to keep borrowers at bay. The criteria for loans and mortgages will be relaxed soon, the fuss will be over around the end of the year. I might agree that house price mania maybe subdued for some time to come, but that is probably a good thing.

I get the feeling that most people and organisations generally do not feel any more insecure than they did a year ago. For example, the IT consultancy that I left for aviation now is expanding with nobody on the bench, 2005 was the last time it was so good for them. I'm, erm, pretty sure I wasn't causing that much damage.

As a side note, I really don't think oil and house prices are as relevant to the economy as some understandably believe. One cannot take individual specific commodities and apply their state to the state of the economy as a whole. I think the economy is now much more robust than it is generally given credit for, this is probably because there are now more powerful players in the world and the US and is increasingly a peer rather than a driver. Saying that, a slowdown will probably help rather than hinder in the medium to long term.
Tony Hirst is offline   Reply
Old 19th July 2008, 14:01   #69 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: UK/Iraq
Posts: 54
Hear hear! G Spot's Lost behaviour in making a PM public business shows appalling judgement and a distinct lack of breeding. What an oik!
Strobin Purple is offline   Reply
Old 19th July 2008, 17:59   #70 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: London
Posts: 47
“This is the greatest crisis in aviation’s history; bigger than the Gulf wars, the attacks of September 11, 2001, severe acute respiratory syndrome and past oil shocks.”

Quote Tim Clark, President of Emirates. (Talking about current oil price crisis)
Flashdance9 is offline   Reply
Old 20th July 2008, 20:03   #71 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 11
This article is a couple of months old now but I found it very interesting nonetheless:

More on the real reason behind high oil prices
Part II


by F. William Engdahl


Global Research, May 21, 2008


As detailed in an earlier article, a conservative calculation is that at least 60% of today’s $128 per barrel price of crude oil comes from unregulated futures speculation by hedge funds, banks and financial groups using the London ICE Futures and New York NYMEX futures exchanges and uncontrolled inter-bank or Over-The-Counter trading to avoid scrutiny. US margin rules of the government’s Commodity Futures Trading Commission allow speculators to buy a crude oil futures contract on the Nymex, by having to pay only 6% of the value of the contract. At today's price of $128 per barrel, that means a futures trader only has to put up about $8 for every barrel. He borrows the other $120. This extreme “leverage” of 16 to 1 helps drive prices to wildly unrealistic levels and offset bank losses in sub-prime and other disasters at the expense of the overall population.

The hoax of Peak Oil—namely the argument that the oil production has hit the point where more than half all reserves have been used and the world is on the downslope of oil at cheap price and abundant quantity—has enabled this costly fraud to continue since the invasion of Iraq in 2003 with the help of key banks and big oil majors. Washington is trying to shift blame, as always, to Arab OPEC producers. The problem is not a lack of crude oil supply. In fact the world is in over-supply now. Yet the price climbs relentlessly higher. Why? The answer lies in what are clearly deliberate US government policies that permit the unbridled oil price manipulations.

World Oil Demand Flat, Prices Boom…

The chief market strategist for one of the world’s leading oil industry banks, David Kelly, of J.P. Morgan Funds, recently admitted something telling to the Washington Post, “One of the things I think is very important to realize is that the growth in the world oil consumption is not that strong."

One of the stories used to support the oil futures speculators is the allegation that China’s oil import thirst is exploding out of control, driving shortages in the supply-demand equilibrium. The facts do not support the China demand thesis however.

The US Government’s Energy Information Administration (EIA) in its most recent monthly Short Term Energy Outlook report, concluded that US oil demand is expected to decline by 190,000 b/d in 2008. That is mainly owing to the deepening economic recession. Chinese consumption, the EIA says, far from exploding, is expected to rise this year by only 400,000 barrels a day. That is hardly the "surging oil demand" blamed on China in the media. Last year China imported 3.2 million barrels per day, and its estimated usage was around 7 million b/d total. The US, by contrast, consumes around 20.7 million b/d.

That means the key oil consuming nation, the USA, is experiencing a significant drop in demand. China, which consumes only a third of the oil the US does, will see a minor rise in import demand compared with the total daily world oil output of some 84 million barrels, less than half of a percent of the total demand.

The Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) has its 2008 global oil demand growth forecast unchanged at 1.2 mm bpd, as slowing economic growth in the industrialised world is offset by slightly growing consumption in developing nations. OPEC predicts global oil demand in 2008 will average 87 million bpd -- largely unchanged from its previous estimate. Demand from China, the Middle East, India, and Latin America -- is forecast to be stronger but the EU and North American demand will be lower.

So the world’s largest oil consumer faces a sharp decline in consumption, a decline that will worsen as the housing and related economic effects of the US securitization crisis in finance de-leverages. The price in normal open or transparent markets would presumably be falling not rising. No supply crisis justifies the way the world's oil is being priced today.

Big new oil fields coming online

Not only is there no supply crisis to justify such a price bubble. There are several giant new oil fields due to begin production over the course of 2008 to further add to supply.

The world’s single largest oil producer, Saudi Arabia is finalizing plans to boost drilling activity by a third and increase production by 40 %. Saudi Aramco's plan, which runs from 2009 to 2013, is expected to be approved by the company's board and the Oil Ministry this month. The Kingdom is in the midst of a $ 50 billion oil production expansion plan to meet growing demand in Asia and other emerging markets. The Kingdom is expected to boost its pumping capacity to a total of 12.5 mm bpd by next year, up about 11 % from current capacity of 11.3 mm bpd.

In April this year Saudi Arabia's Khursaniyah oilfield began pumping and will soon add another 500,000 bpd to world oil supply of high grade Arabian Light crude. As well, another Saudi expansion project, the Khurais oilfield development, is the largest of Saudi Aramco projects that will boost the production capacity of Saudi oilfields from 11.3 million bpd to 12.5 million bpd by 2009. Khurais is planned to add another 1.2 million bpd of high-quality Arabian light crude to Saudi Arabia's export capacity.

Brazil’s Petrobras is in the early phase of exploiting what it estimates are newly confirmed oil reserves offshore in its Tupi field that could be as great or greater than the North Sea. Petrobras, says the new ultra-deep Tupi field could hold as much as 8 billion barrels of recoverable light crude. When online in a few years it is expected to put Brazil among the world's "top 10" oil producers, between those of Nigeria and those of Venezuela.

In the United States, aside from rumors that the big oil companies have been deliberately sitting on vast new reserves in Alaska for fear that the prices of recent years would plunge on over-supply, the US Geological Survey (USGS) recently issued a report that confirmed major new oil reserves in an area called the Bakken, which stretches across North Dakota, Montana and south-eastern Saskatchewan. The USGS estimates up to 3.65 billion barrels of oil in the Bakken.

These are just several confirmations of large new oil reserves to be exploited. Iraq, where the Anglo-American Big Four oil majors are salivating to get their hands on the unexplored fields, is believed to hold oil reserves second only to Saudi Arabia. Much of the world has yet to be explored for oil. At prices above $60 a barrel huge new potentials become economic. The major problem faced by Big Oil is not finding replacement oil but keeping the lid on world oil finds in order to maintain present exorbitant prices. Here they have some help from Wall Street banks and the two major oil trade exchanges—NYMEX and London-Atlanta’s ICE and ICE Futures.

Then why do prices still rise?

There is growing evidence that the recent speculative bubble in oil which has gone asymptotic since January is about to pop.

Late last month in Dallas Texas, according to one participant, the American Association of Petroleum Geologists held its annual conference where all the major oil executives and geologists were present. According to one participant, knowledgeable oil industry CEOs reached the consensus that "oil prices will likely soon drop dramatically and the long-term price increases will be in natural gas."

Just a few days earlier, Lehman Brothers, a Wall Street investment bank had said that the current oil price bubble was coming to an end. Michael Waldron, the bank's chief oil strategist, was quoted in Britain's Daily Telegraph on Apr. 24 saying, "Oil supply is outpacing demand growth. Inventories have been building since the beginning of the year.”

In the US, stockpiles of oil climbed by almost 12 million barrels in April according to the May 7 EIA monthly report on inventory, up by nearly 33 million barrels since January. At the same time, MasterCard's May 7 US gasoline report showed that gas demand has fallen by 5.8%. And refiners are reducing their refining rates dramatically to adjust to the falling gasoline demand. They are now running at 85% of capacity, down from 89% a year ago, in a season when production is normally 95%. The refiners today are clearly trying to draw down gasoline inventories to bid gasoline prices up. ‘It’s the economy, stupid,’ to paraphrase Bill Clinton’s infamous 1992 election quip to daddy Bush. It’s called economic recession.

The May 8 report from Oil Movements, a British company that tracks oil shipments worldwide, shows that oil in transit on the high seas is also quite strong. Almost every category of shipment is running higher than it was a year ago. The report notes that, "In the West, a big share of any oil stock building done this year has happened offshore, out of sight." Some industry insiders say the global oil industry from the activities and stocks of the Big Four to the true state of tanker and storage and liftings, is the most secretive industry in the world with the possible exception of the narcotics trade.

Goldman Sachs again in the middle

The oil price today, unlike twenty years ago, is determined behind closed doors in the trading rooms of giant financial institutions like Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, JP Morgan Chase, Citigroup, Deutsche Bank or UBS. The key exchange in the game is the London ICE (formerly the International Petroleum Exchange). ICE Futures is a wholly-owned subsidiary of the Atlanta Georgia International Commodities Exchange. ICE in Atlanta was founded in part by Goldman Sachs which also happens to run the world’s most widely used commodity price index, the GSCI, which is over-weighted to oil prices.

As I noted in my earlier article, (‘Perhaps 60% of today’s oil price is pure speculation’), ICE was focus of a recent congressional investigation. It was named both in the Senate's Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations' June 27, 2006, Staff Report and in the House Committee on Energy & Commerce's hearing in December 2007 which looked into unregulated trading in energy futures. Both studies concluded that energy prices' climb to $128 and perhaps beyond is driven by billions of dollars' worth of oil and natural gas futures contracts being placed on the ICE. Through a convenient regulation exception granted by the Bush Administration in January 2006, the ICE Futures trading of US energy futures is not regulated by the Commodities Futures Trading Commission, even though the ICE Futures US oil contracts are traded in ICE affiliates in the USA. And at Enron’s request, the CFTC exempted the Over-the-Counter oil futures trades in 2000.

So it is no surprise to see in a May 6 report from Reuters that Goldman Sachs announces oil could in fact be on the verge of another "super spike," possibly taking oil as high as $200 a barrel within the next six to 24 months. That headline, "$200 a barrel!" became the major news story on oil for the next two days. How many gullible lemmings followed behind with their money bets?

Arjun Murti, Goldman Sachs' energy strategist, blamed what he called "blistering" (sic) demand from China and the Middle East, combined with his assertion that the Middle East is nearing its maximum ability to produce more oil. Peak Oil mythology again helps Wall Street. The degree of unfounded hype reminds of the kind of self-serving Wall Street hype in 1999-2000 around dot.com stocks or Enron.

In 2001 just before the dot.com crash in the NASDAQ, some Wall Street firms were pushing sale to the gullible public of stocks that their companies were quietly dumping. Or they were pushing dubious stocks for companies where their affiliated banks had a financial interest. In short as later came out in Congressional investigations, companies with a vested interest in a certain financial outcome used the media to line their pockets and that of their companies, leaving the public holding the bag. It would be interesting for Congress to subpoena the records of the futures positions of Goldman Sachs and a handful of other major energy futures players to see if they are invested to gain from a further rise in oil to $200 or not.

Margin rules feed the frenzy

Another added turbo-charger to present speculation in oil prices is the margin rule governing what percent of cash a buyer of a futures contract in oil has to put up to bet on a rising oil price (or falling for that matter). The current NYMEX regulation allows a speculator to put up only 6% of the total value of his oil futures contract. That means a risk-taking hedge fund or bank can buy oil futures with a leverage of 16 to 1.

We are hit with an endless series of plausible arguments for the high price of oil: A "terrorism risk premium;" “blistering” rise in demand of China and India; unrest in the Nigerian oil region; oil pipelines' blown up in Iraq; possible war with Iran…And above all the hype about Peak Oil. Oil speculator T. Boone Pickens has reportedly raked in a huge profit on oil futures and argues, conveniently that the world is on the cusp of Peak Oil. So does the Houston investment banker and friend of Dick Cheney, Matt Simmons.

As the June 2006 US Senate report, The Role of Market Speculation in Rising Prices, noted, "There's a few hedge fund managers out there who are masters at knowing how to exploit the peak oil theories and hot buttons of supply and demand, and by making bold predictions of shocking price advancements to come, they only add more fuel to the bullish fire in a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy."

Will a Democratic Congress act to change the carefully crafted opaque oil in an election year and risk bursting the bubble? On May 12 House Energy & Commerce Committee stated it will look at this issue into June. The world will be watching.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=9042
Plastic787 is offline   Reply
Old 20th July 2008, 20:55   #72 (permalink)
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: England
Posts: 4,650
Oil prices are a sideshow to the main event that will cripple many airlines and see Wannabes on the dole. The main event is a Recession. The oil spike is but a factor in this.

It is relevant to consider the spike but it won't matter soon how cheap the tickets are or what the kerosene in the wings cost.

Welcome to 1990.

WWW
Wee Weasley Welshman is offline   Reply
Old 20th July 2008, 21:47   #73 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Scottish FIR
Posts: 297
Just to pour a little petrol onto the fire. Revenue that government receives will shrink, and its spending will increase. That means even less for us, as an increase in direct taxation is an inevitability. The main losses to Gordon will be less revenue from capital gains tax, stamp duty, VAT, and death duties. Probably a few other things to throw in. At the same time, government will have to fork out more for tax credit, more for unemployment benefit, more for NHS, two expensive wars (a third pending). So tax will be going up, play around with the tax codes and chop a few allowances. By the time Gordons finished, and chuck in an inflation rate of 10% or more, the credit crunch wont matter, as no one will want a loan, unless of course its for a loaf of bread.

Happy days are ahead
spinnaker is offline   Reply
Old 20th July 2008, 22:05   #74 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 892
So get out of the UK then. This country's been going down the tubes for some time now. Plenty opportunities elsewhere.
MIKECR is offline   Reply
Old 20th July 2008, 22:12   #75 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: england
Posts: 625
Mike, I think the point is that the situation is not unique to the UK.
Lurking123 is offline   Reply
Old 20th July 2008, 22:16   #76 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 892
I agree, however, I say again - there are plenty opportunities elsewhere, assuming people are willing to upsticks and relocate. The aviation world stretches a lot further than just the UK and US
MIKECR is offline   Reply
Old 21st July 2008, 16:21   #77 (permalink)

 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 615
I doubt the grass would be anymore greener elsewhere, even the current oasis of the Arabian desert they'll be tightening their belts. After all the like of Emirates, Qatar Airways, Gulf Air, etc are dependent on people outside of the middle east travelling thus a recession elsewhere will impact the Mid-East consequently stemming and reducing demand. This still leaves the ever flexible wannabe little choice to seek employment there. I would reiterate the same scenario for Asia a global slowdown is a global one and some will avoid the rising waters longer than others but I feel it'll eventually submerge all sooner or later.

In fact things appear so bleak that I am starting to redefine wannabes and not just recent graduates but also recent hires with a few houndreds hours on type under their belt, captains they most certainly are not and thus will be in the same muddle pool as the newbies. Awful I know but I just can't see how we're going to get out of this anytime soon. Therefore to up sticks and move elsehwhere would a stay of execution but the costs of relocating compared to the brief period of employment would reset you back to square one or even a few steps beyond that too.
boogie-nicey is offline   Reply
Old 21st July 2008, 19:10   #78 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Scottish FIR
Posts: 297
Darling must be reading my posts

BBC NEWS | The Reporters | Robert Peston
spinnaker is offline   Reply
Old 21st July 2008, 21:23   #79 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 83
Come on, isnt all this a bit pointless now? This thread has been hijacked by the very people who like to shout so loudly in the downturn thread and it has been turned into the exact same thread as a consequence. Can I just ask can anyone tell me the point of having two threads saying the exact same thing? I mean its fairly clear that you people have some time on your hands but this really is just laughable!

Come to think of it, why not just remove the whole wannabes section of PPRuNe as it is clear from the economic experts on this forum that there will never again be a wannabe who will manage to get a job in aviation?
RexBanner is offline   Reply
Old 21st July 2008, 21:55   #80 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 342
and well said Rex!!!
clear prop!!! is offline   Reply
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes


Posting Rules
vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:51.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC7
© 1996-2009 The Professional Pilots Rumour Network

As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, or sciolists*, to elicit certain reactions.

*"sciolist"... Noun, archaic. "a person who pretends to be knowledgeable and well informed".