Professional Pilot Training (includes ground studies)A forum for those on the steep path to that coveted professional licence. Whether studying for the written exams, training for the flight tests or building experience here's where you can hang out.
Bit of journalistic license on that one. KLM and Swissair have been doing it for a while with Privatair.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Treehuggers
That has outraged environmentalists, who say each traveller will be responsible for about three times the emissions of regular flights.
Uh. Okay. So the same as if Ryanair/Flybe/Anyone else operate a flight 30% full? The double decker bus I came to work on only had 8 people on it, so I guess that makes me responsible for xx times the emmissions?
The 1990's recession which caused >3m unemployed and saw several large airlines go bust in the UK lasted for 2 quarters. This one is started in the last 2 quarters of 2008 and is still running now... Its already a much bigger and longer lasting recession than we have seen for three generations. And that's if it ended today.
With interest rates held where they are and £150,000,000,000 of newly printed money being pumped into the system I'd be amazed if the recession didn't end soon. But don't think that means everything goes back to normal. The bombing may have stopped but the city is still in ruins..
The UK airline industry is still in a bad way however I see that some smaller company's are being quick off the mark to take advantage of lower lease rates on aircraft & the inertia of the bigger airlines who have (over?) reacted late to the market down turn.
Some employers are clearly trying to take advantage of the situation with talk of bases closing & pilots laid off, I think that this is a bit rich for at least one airline that is having crewing problems. Oh and this stance comes as the pay reveiw approches.
The time is not yet right for airlines to come knocking on the doors of the wanabes but the list of those from Zoom, Silverjet & XL who are out of work is getting shorter.
Wannabe action plan
Don't get sucked in by the glossy publicity and pictures of young people looking happy standing on the steps of airliners with South American military quantitys of gold braid. These are the people who have copped onto the fact that the wannabe is going to pay to sit in the (second) best seat on the aircraftand are going to charge a fortune for this "oportunity".
The market is not ready for this and won't be for two to three years minimum. Life would be so much better in the long run if all of you kept well clear of these money sucking parasites.
It might be the time to think about a very slow move towards a modular (f)ATPL, training prices are keen but DO NOT give up the day job and DO NOT borrow the money, at this stage play only with real cash that is yours (as always not more than £500 up front).
Slow forward movement is the name of the game with the aim of being ready to do the IR in about three years. If the market shows that it is picking up then borrowing a little money might be in order to quicken the pace but this won't be for two to three years and hopfully you will have done most of the trainning by then.
It should put you ahead of the market without exposing you to too much debt and you will still have a job if the market is slow off the mark.
It might be the time to think about a very slow move towards a modular (f)ATPL, training prices are keen but DO NOT give up the day job and DO NOT borrow the money, at this stage play only with real cash that is yours (as always not more than £500 up front).
A good shout given my research of late into integrated course prices..
Can the moderators delete this thread....as there is no signs of upturn...or can we at least change the title to signs we are still in between a rock and a hard place?!
Don't get sucked in by the glossy publicity and pictures of young people looking happy standing on the steps of airliners with South American military quantitys of gold braid. These are the people who have copped onto the fact that the wannabe is going to pay to sit in the (second) best seat on the aircraftand are going to charge a fortune for this "oportunity".
The market is not ready for this and won't be for two to three years minimum. Life would be so much better in the long run if all of you kept well clear of these money sucking parasites.
It might be the time to think about a very slow move towards a modular (f)ATPL, training prices are keen but DO NOT give up the day job and DO NOT borrow the money, at this stage play only with real cash that is yours (as always not more than £500 up front).
Slow forward movement is the name of the game with the aim of being ready to do the IR in about three years. If the market shows that it is picking up then borrowing a little money might be in order to quicken the pace but this won't be for two to three years and hopfully you will have done most of the trainning by then.
It should put you ahead of the market without exposing you to too much debt and you will still have a job if the market is slow off the mark.
With regards to paying for the "oportunity". Sadly the days of full sponsorship are well behind us, which is something i am very sad to see. But having been on an interview board for a UK airline I am fully aware that airlines, and sadly students, need to get real. The cost of integrated training is very high indeed. But some airlines,not mine but at least one large UK regional, still offer part sponsorship to students. True this may only put a dent into the financial punch that will be recieved by student and family, but that is what i would hold out for right now.
I have been a pilot/QFI/FI(a)/F/O then Capt and TRI/E. Now just in the last couple of years of my career. Light hopefully at end of tunnel! Pension over years has been screwed around with but hey, i'm not alone there right? I have watched this site on and off for the last few years, but only now do I get a 'log in' as I can not stand to see the rubbish posted by some people.
My advice to wannabes. Hang on, save up, look for airline part sponsored of affiliated courses and look to train somewhere that has a good reputation and lots of airline backing! I have seen several modular students lack even the basic elements or airmanship and handling skills, not to mention situational awareness in the sim checks. Not all are bad, some are indeed very good, but it would not suprise me if they had a natural high aptitude! How some passed their IRT with the CAA is beond me! Many modular training routes are cheaper, but they want your money just as badly! Somethimes withot even giving you an assesment of your suitability for the course!
On the other side of the course the candidates from integrated courses tend to do a lot better. Not all pass the sim check still, but the percantage is much higher. why? Well they are traied to a known standard and can demonstate their skills to myself when undertaking a basic profile in the sim check. When I pause after giving them several climbs, decents, and vectors with one or two nav aids tuned, i ask them to point on the radar minimums chart to where we are in the sky. Almost all get it right first time. We can even tell, during type conversion courses where an individual trained! The integrated route is expensive, but they do select you and test you to see if you will be able to see the course through and look attractive to airlines at the end of your 14-18 months. The modular route is sketchy and pilots from the route tend not to have any consistancy in ability,usually due to training at various locations,with diferent styles and techniques being demonstated. Sadly to the detrement of the candidate in the sim during the interview stages. Having also been an FI i would advise anyone serious on doing an integrated route not to spend lots of momey on a PPL. By all means do some flying lessons or trial flight to see if you enjoy being in the air, and in a small training aircraft. However bad habits learnt from some dodgy PPL instructors will leave you struggling a little, or maybe a lot, when conducting your 'professional' flying training. The integrated route has, and rightly so,a steep learning curve. You want to ideally be learning for the first time, not 'unlearning' then relearning something done differently, or correctly! consistency in training is vital!
At the end of the day you have to do what is right for you and what you are happy with, regardless of what I or anyone else writes on this site! My nepthew is very keen to take up flying as a career and I can't seem to put him off it. In fact the harder I try the more he wants it! I went to the Flyer?? exhibition at Heathrow earlier in the year. I was suprised just how many schools and airlines were there! He ended up with a great deal of information for the various schools and airlines, a lot of info all in one place. I was sceptical at first but on seeing the exhibition i was impressed.
I would advise people serious on going to atten if and when it is next on.My advise to him is also to wait it out until new courses appear. But each to their own.
Anyway thats my two pennys. Happy landings and best of luck to all.
The news from both BA & Aer Lingus is an example of the inertia of big companys, just like oil tankers they take a long time to change direction.
The actions of these companys has far more to do with history and the people who have managed through internal politics and union pressure to unbalance the resopnsability/pay balance.
BA cabin crew are a prime example with some of the older CSD's taking home more money than some flight crew and two to three times as much as the Licenced engineers maintaning the aircraft.
The industry simply cant afford the luxury of the £60,000 p/a cabin crew and no doubt equaly overpaid backroom "management". So I think that you will find that these are the people who will take the brunt (if not all) of the cuts.
The view for the pilots & engineers is looking far brighter in the long term and even in the short term is not too bad with one or two smaler and more agile company's expanding in a buyers market for leasing aircraft.
Personally, I think the recession couldn't have come at a better time for B.A. and Aer Lingus. Both seem to have managers in there now that aren't afraid to give the place a rattle and with the recession hopefully the unions will be a little more cooperative and less blood sucking than they normally are and see that what's good for business is good for jobs in the long run.....
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