money money money
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Join Date: Apr 2007
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money money money
hi
everyone is talking about doing the intergrated ATPL etc for 75000k, which is fair enough but i was wondering how everyone is paying for it??
thanks
everyone is talking about doing the intergrated ATPL etc for 75000k, which is fair enough but i was wondering how everyone is paying for it??
thanks
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Good question. And I still can't understand how young people at your age even get ther hands on this amount of cash ... and probably scarier still why they would spend £75k+ on training at 18 years old?
This has been asked a few times mind and the answer is that HSBC will lend you £50k if you are selected for the OAA Integrated course. I think you can get funds if you go via FTE in Jerez and if you are selected for CTC works like a sponsorship as 99% of their graduates will get a job with an airline after completing the course and the airline will pay your loan off for you (like a bond) I believe.
Some students have loans taken out and use their parents house as security.
What surprises me most is how confident these young people are. Taking out a huge loan to gamble on a possible dream job?!? If you were a 35 year old accountant earning a good wage and fancied a career change then I can see why the integrated route looks like a good option ... but an 18 year old?
I'll be taking minimum risk and going modular, in this credit climate taking a £45k/£50k gamble is a big enough risk for me.
I think you can/could take out up to £25k unsecured for your flight training but that may have changed now.
This has been asked a few times mind and the answer is that HSBC will lend you £50k if you are selected for the OAA Integrated course. I think you can get funds if you go via FTE in Jerez and if you are selected for CTC works like a sponsorship as 99% of their graduates will get a job with an airline after completing the course and the airline will pay your loan off for you (like a bond) I believe.
Some students have loans taken out and use their parents house as security.
What surprises me most is how confident these young people are. Taking out a huge loan to gamble on a possible dream job?!? If you were a 35 year old accountant earning a good wage and fancied a career change then I can see why the integrated route looks like a good option ... but an 18 year old?
I'll be taking minimum risk and going modular, in this credit climate taking a £45k/£50k gamble is a big enough risk for me.
I think you can/could take out up to £25k unsecured for your flight training but that may have changed now.
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AM,
The interesting thing is that it's usually the youngsters who are going for integrated courses whereas the more financially sound 35 year old carreer changer tends to go modular.
Of course there are exceptions, but that seems to be how it goes.
As to the confidence, I'm sure a lot leave training not knowing what they're in for if they haven't got into an airline through recommendation.
The interesting thing is that it's usually the youngsters who are going for integrated courses whereas the more financially sound 35 year old carreer changer tends to go modular.
Of course there are exceptions, but that seems to be how it goes.
As to the confidence, I'm sure a lot leave training not knowing what they're in for if they haven't got into an airline through recommendation.
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The answer to your question is simple: huge loans that they don't know how to repay...
Before enrolling a flight school, it will show to you, the prospective student, sheets showing 6 digit pilot wages.
What they willingly omit to tell you is that you won't get to the 6 digits before 1 decade after training and that you won't even be able to cover living expenses with your starter salary (without even speaking of a potential need to fund TR).
If you think about it, it's insane.
A 75K program's actual cost rarely exceeds one third of its sales value.
So actually, all these people are genuinely filling the already deep pockets of the FTO's owners....
It's their choice, no one will stop them.
Before enrolling a flight school, it will show to you, the prospective student, sheets showing 6 digit pilot wages.
What they willingly omit to tell you is that you won't get to the 6 digits before 1 decade after training and that you won't even be able to cover living expenses with your starter salary (without even speaking of a potential need to fund TR).
If you think about it, it's insane.
A 75K program's actual cost rarely exceeds one third of its sales value.
So actually, all these people are genuinely filling the already deep pockets of the FTO's owners....
It's their choice, no one will stop them.
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Is it confidence or ignorance.
I cant help thinking the big schools are exploiting the youngsters getting these huge loans. You can get the same qualifications alot cheaper yet people dont and i dont know whether this is down to the schools marketing, impatience or a total lack of ability to manage their own training program.
I cant help thinking the big schools are exploiting the youngsters getting these huge loans. You can get the same qualifications alot cheaper yet people dont and i dont know whether this is down to the schools marketing, impatience or a total lack of ability to manage their own training program.
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Luckily most of us youngsters are still living with our parents. So unlike some of the older students we have no overheads or family responsibilities. It only makes sense to go the integrated route. I thankfully am lucky enough to have my parents pay for training
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Luckily most of us youngsters are still living with our parents. So unlike some of the older students we have no overheads or family responsibilities. It only makes sense to go the integrated route. I thankfully am lucky enough to have my parents pay for training
Last edited by heli_port; 30th May 2008 at 14:56.
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I've been looking into this as well and have been left wandering the same thing.
It seems once you are in the R/H seat then repaying won't be a problem but the idea of not being able to get into that seat doesn't bear thinking about if your Mum and Dad's house is at stake. I would hate to have to ask to borrow £1k per month for the next 7 years!
I thought about it long and hard and then realised that if I can go modular and fund my training while I'm working and come out with an (f)ATPL and no (or little) debt then I will be in a great position. It may take a bit longer and it doubt I will have much spare cash for a few years but it will mean that I won't be under any financial pressure to get a flying job at the end.
If I get £50k on a scratch card though I would be straight down to the schools in a flash though! Borrowing the money just seems like a huge gamble at the moment.
It seems once you are in the R/H seat then repaying won't be a problem but the idea of not being able to get into that seat doesn't bear thinking about if your Mum and Dad's house is at stake. I would hate to have to ask to borrow £1k per month for the next 7 years!
I thought about it long and hard and then realised that if I can go modular and fund my training while I'm working and come out with an (f)ATPL and no (or little) debt then I will be in a great position. It may take a bit longer and it doubt I will have much spare cash for a few years but it will mean that I won't be under any financial pressure to get a flying job at the end.
If I get £50k on a scratch card though I would be straight down to the schools in a flash though! Borrowing the money just seems like a huge gamble at the moment.
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121ace,
Going the integrated route is certainly not the 'sensible' route to follow just now. You people need to waken up and realise whats happeing around you. Airlines are going bust just now - Silverjet have just gone to the wall, BMI are stopping recruitment, EZY arent taking FO's(unless you pay 35k for TR and buy line hours, no garauntee of a job at the end), EZY are also speaking off redundancies, The Thomas Cooks etc are all amalgamating, Ryanair are grounding aircraft later this year, and this is only the start of it! Experienced pilots with 100's of jet hours will flood the job markets for the next few years. Where on earth do you think you''ll get a job with a frozen 'integrated' atpl and no experience?? Buy a Type rating and then buy line hours?? All your going to have is 100k of debt im afarid. Thats repayments off a 1000 quid a month for many years!! Do your parents actually know what theyre investing all this money into??
Going the integrated route is certainly not the 'sensible' route to follow just now. You people need to waken up and realise whats happeing around you. Airlines are going bust just now - Silverjet have just gone to the wall, BMI are stopping recruitment, EZY arent taking FO's(unless you pay 35k for TR and buy line hours, no garauntee of a job at the end), EZY are also speaking off redundancies, The Thomas Cooks etc are all amalgamating, Ryanair are grounding aircraft later this year, and this is only the start of it! Experienced pilots with 100's of jet hours will flood the job markets for the next few years. Where on earth do you think you''ll get a job with a frozen 'integrated' atpl and no experience?? Buy a Type rating and then buy line hours?? All your going to have is 100k of debt im afarid. Thats repayments off a 1000 quid a month for many years!! Do your parents actually know what theyre investing all this money into??
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*Cynic Alert - 23yrs old but firm grip on reality and even firmer one on his wallet*
I'm with MikeCR on this one. Anyone applying to somewhere like Oxford/FTE for an integrated course with no firm offer at the end must be stark raving *bonkers*. Do something sensible! Go into aviation management! Work in an office, make some money, then if your company does go bust then A) you probably saw it coming more than the pilots and didn't find yourself out of a job with a £60k loan bearing down on you B) you make links and discover more operators than you ever thought possible, which helps when you go modular and want a job.
What could possibly go wrong.
I'm with MikeCR on this one. Anyone applying to somewhere like Oxford/FTE for an integrated course with no firm offer at the end must be stark raving *bonkers*. Do something sensible! Go into aviation management! Work in an office, make some money, then if your company does go bust then A) you probably saw it coming more than the pilots and didn't find yourself out of a job with a £60k loan bearing down on you B) you make links and discover more operators than you ever thought possible, which helps when you go modular and want a job.
What could possibly go wrong.
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It only makes sense to go the integrated route
Is it confidence or ignorance.
Exploitation for sure.
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The argument about being a known quantity doesnt wash with me either.
Its ok if you are the top of your class and get a recommendation but what if your not recommended? The only 'Known Quantity' then is that your not the best pilot. Is that worth paying ££££'s extra for
Its ok if you are the top of your class and get a recommendation but what if your not recommended? The only 'Known Quantity' then is that your not the best pilot. Is that worth paying ££££'s extra for
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Maybe their parents saw the statistics of how many people hold fATPLs, how many are employed, and the employment statistics of integrated courses, only to make the obvious conclusion...regardless of the number of those who have succeeded through the other route.
If one can afford the best bet for their personal situation, there is no need to begrudge one taking that option. It is the same licence after all.
If one can afford the best bet for their personal situation, there is no need to begrudge one taking that option. It is the same licence after all.
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By working for a few years, and with help from my parents, my loan should only total around £10k (modular route).
I don't think I could stomach taking a £50k loan with no guarentee of a job at the end. This way, it's unsecured, so worst case senario I'm bankrupt at 23.
I don't think I could stomach taking a £50k loan with no guarentee of a job at the end. This way, it's unsecured, so worst case senario I'm bankrupt at 23.
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this thread is dangerously close to becoming the dreaded integrated v modular thread 
The fact is that you have to chose the method of training that not only you can afford but one which suits you. For me the OAA product is the best and hence why i am going there
The fact is that you have to chose the method of training that not only you can afford but one which suits you. For me the OAA product is the best and hence why i am going there
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Yes, quite true - it would be helpful to answer the OP's question if replies stepped back to simply giving information on:
- Training course chosen
- Cost (and currency of cost)
- % and £/$/€ borrowed (in local currency borrowed)
- % and £/$/€ given by family
- % and £/$/€ from savings / equity release from house sale etc
Expensive thing to do, and considerations for
- Living costs
- Travel
- Family's living costs
must all be made as appropriate.
- Training course chosen
- Cost (and currency of cost)
- % and £/$/€ borrowed (in local currency borrowed)
- % and £/$/€ given by family
- % and £/$/€ from savings / equity release from house sale etc
Expensive thing to do, and considerations for
- Living costs
- Travel
- Family's living costs
must all be made as appropriate.
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Put1992,
I wouldnt criticise your plan at all. Thats exactly what i did. My frozen atpl cost me the grand total of 30k. Over the last 12 months of applications I was offered 3 interviews, including Ryanair. I turned it down due to the deal on offer and i went for the other 2 job interviews. Im now sitting in 2 hold pools, hopefuly getting a start with one of them very soon. Both jobs on offer have bonded type ratings, i wont have to fork out a penny. Airline flying for 30k and who says modular isnt the way to go! So hey, why bother listening to me, what do i know about integrated being the only sensible option!
I wouldnt criticise your plan at all. Thats exactly what i did. My frozen atpl cost me the grand total of 30k. Over the last 12 months of applications I was offered 3 interviews, including Ryanair. I turned it down due to the deal on offer and i went for the other 2 job interviews. Im now sitting in 2 hold pools, hopefuly getting a start with one of them very soon. Both jobs on offer have bonded type ratings, i wont have to fork out a penny. Airline flying for 30k and who says modular isnt the way to go! So hey, why bother listening to me, what do i know about integrated being the only sensible option!
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Luckily most of us youngsters are still living with our parents. So unlike some of the older students we have no overheads or family responsibilities. It only makes sense to go the integrated route. I thankfully am lucky enough to have my parents pay for training
. I mean I did my training at oxford modular on the same planes, same instructors and got the same licence as the integrated courses. The only difference was we came out with more hours and cost us a hell of a lot less money!!! And as far as the Airlines go the only one that cares about integrated or modular is BA and only they care if your applying as a cadet!
I have to agree that the modular route in this current climate offers far less risk unless ofcourse you sponged all the money off your parents!
If I was starting at the moment I would definately hang fire for around a year to see what happens!
With Silverjet going under today its hardly looking very rosey at the moment ! Which I can personally attest to having recently left the smiley airline/second choice only to lose my job with Oasis Hong Kong, Luckily for me managed to get my butt back in the R/H seat of a 767. I have to say Im worried about the future at the moment let alone if I had a shiny new FATPL and £75000 debt from my integrated course
just my 2pence worth!
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Pride
another aspect in my mind as well is pride.
I am currently working 7 days a week, 5 in an office on my fall back career, 2 in a warehouse at the weekend and studing every night when i get home.
When people finish their atpl they can be pround of their achievement as for sure integrated or modular its tough hard work. But I am quite sure I am able to hang my head a little higher knowing that I have sweated and worked and sweated a bit more to get where I have and be proud to tell my kids how I got there. Rather than sponging of my parents or getting in debt risking my own future by getting loans up to the eyeballs.
Get real folks - work for it, nothing in life should be giving to you on a plate.
I am currently working 7 days a week, 5 in an office on my fall back career, 2 in a warehouse at the weekend and studing every night when i get home.
When people finish their atpl they can be pround of their achievement as for sure integrated or modular its tough hard work. But I am quite sure I am able to hang my head a little higher knowing that I have sweated and worked and sweated a bit more to get where I have and be proud to tell my kids how I got there. Rather than sponging of my parents or getting in debt risking my own future by getting loans up to the eyeballs.
Get real folks - work for it, nothing in life should be giving to you on a plate.