hobbit1983

Personally, I would have thought that an Engineering degree would be very academically sound - while it's hard, it's got a lot more weight than say Media Studies etc, so I believe. And presumable Aero Eng would be a benefit to any pilot.
However, when we asked the training captain for Flybe if a degree was necessary/desirable for getting an airline job, his response was along the lines of 'nice if you have it, but it's not going to make any difference practically'. Eg. (I stand by to be corrected) but I don't believe any airlines have 'graduate' and 'non-grad' pilots, and no difference in pay.

BUS319

I recently qualified with a frozen ATPL and from my experience a degree gives you very little advantage over anyone else. I believe it is nice to have as a back up regarding how fickle the airline industry can be however having gone through training with 18 other students ranging from different ages and academic back grounds I have seen no correlation between people having degrees and getting jobs. I personally noticed good ATPL grades helps but the real attraction for airlines seems to be the golden first time I.R. and good MCC evaluation as this is what you will spend the rest of your career doing. I went to uni for 2 years and left to persue my dream of flying and I dont regret it in the slightest. I belive the best thing you can get out of uni is life experience and not a qualification you will never use. I have been lucky enough to go straight into a jet job as have a few of my class mates and I am yet to hear of anyone who has been through an airline interview being asked about previous education nor has it been a factor of them getting the interview. I believe your choice of flight school, performance through training and you as a person is what separates you from the next pilot, not a degree.

EI-Shamrock

I'm not thinking about going to university because it might give me a better chance of getting a pilot job. I think it will benefit me, and I'm interested in some of the degree courses. I also will have more time before I start pilot training to get a part-time job at an airport and do some networking. I know that flying experience/quality is the big thing, but I would prefer to have a degree, even if it isn't essential. In North America, pilots who want to fly with major airlines must have a degree. Anyway, in two years (the time it will take me to finish school and qualify with a fATPL) the industry could bottom out, but in five/six years there will probably be a whole new cycle.

What was your route to the RHS BUS319?

planecrazy.eu

Thanks for the info, i chose Aero Eng as i have interest in it, and i think i would get on better with it than Aircraft Eng or Aeronautics. Aerospace Engineering i am going to take, well i think. The other is Aeronautical Engineering, not sure what one to go for? I wanted a Degree as it gives back-up should i fail a class one, and so i can get a good job whilst waiting for a F/O possition, or to pay to un-freeze my ATPL.

I have looked at the League tables, Kingston was pretty well down, and only getting a 3 for there research efforts. Brunel was towards the top with a 5. But Kingston has won that RAeS thing that they hold for Uni's and Kingston has accrediatation woth RAeS where as Brunel doesnt.

I think i am reading into these leagues to deep though, i dont think there is much point in going to a Uni that you dont feel comfertable or just dislike and have just chosen it for its "status".

Oh well, it looks like i am of to Brunel anyway, i am re-taking an A-level to and if any of those FTE or other schemes are around next year i will apply when i have three A-levels, as i only have two =(

I am of to get my eyes checked tomorrow, so i can see if i can get a class one, if i cant then i hope i will be making the planes for you all to fly, thanks for the info guys.

EIRE-PLANER

Irish Independant 17-08-06 Is it possible to get a good job in Ireland/Europe without a degree?????? Most experts agree that as Ireland/Europe increasingly focuses on the knowledge economy, third level qualifications are more important than ever before.Booming sectors such as construction offer young school leavers the oppertunity to make lots of money and ignore futher education.But Peter Brown, programme manager with the Higher Education Authority(HEA), believes they would be foolish to ignore the long term benefits a degree provides.For long-term stable employment, a degree is more important than ever. Without it, you are vunerable to downturns and shifts in sectorial priorities, he says. Those shifts are already evident. "Construction is bouyant at present and is providing oppertunities that do no require degrees, but we will see our dependence on construction begin to lessen. Manufacturing also provides a lot of jobs that dont require degrees but that is now moving to Eastern Europe.Sheila Byrne, work placement officer in UCC, believes that knowledge economy employers see a degree as a prequisite. "It s almost the new leaving cert . You tend to need a degree for jobs that traditionally didnt require it,she says. The quality of qualifications is also increasingly important. "In the past five years students are using honours degrees , postgrad s,masters and PHD s to give them selves the edge in the employment market". Just some food for thought.

Genghis the Engineer

I have some inside knowledge here.

Kingston and Brunel are both great, well regarded universities. The reason that Brunel has a much better RAE (Research Assessment Exercise) score is that it's been in the research game much longer. I'd actually not be surprised if you got a better standard of teaching at Kingston on the other hand, because they've always been a primarily teaching, rather than research organisation - when it was Kingston Polytechnic, it was one of the best regarded aeronautical engineering colleges in Britain and I doubt very much that it's got worse since it became a university.

"That RAeS thing they have for Unis", is called accreditation. Basically it means that the degree course is accepted by the RAeS automatically if you go on to become a Chartered Engineer, whilst you may have a lot more to prove if you don't have an accredited degree.


Brunel's Mech+Aero and Aerospace Engineering courses have IMechE (Institution of Mechanical Engineers) accreditation, which basically means that if you want to become a chartered engineer you'll more likely need to go through the IMechE; but the status of the CEng is the same.

Brunel's new Aviation Engineering with pilot studies course will be accredited by the RAeS. They can't get it accredited until they have students for the RAeS to come and meet, and the first students start this autumn. My opinion is that it'll be a good course, and the risk of them not getting accreditation (considering they're one of the biggest and best respected engineering schools in the country, plus they've bought in a lot of new aeronautical talent to run the new course) is nil. Plus, okay it's more expensive than anything else, but you can actually get your first leg on the piloting ladder whilst there.

G

Genghis the Engineer

I agree with you by and large. I don't think that a degree will make an enormous difference through flying training. And if your ambitions never go beyond line pilot, the same is probably true.

But, if you plan to go into a management pilot role one day, or (say) you move into one of the non-core jobs such as simulator development, test flying, procedure development, it will help a lot.

Some of the technical best pilots I've known didn't have degrees. Some of the other best pilots I've known had good technical degrees.

So there's not a right or wrong answer - just don't waste your time doing something (e.g. classics or media studies) that is unlikely to help your career at-all, just delay it 3 years and leave you in debt.

G

WindSheer

Quote from the head of Airbus within the company I work for:

I asked him if my lack of Academia would affect my chances of gaining employment within XXX:

".........your age (30 at end of training) plays no part whatsoever, neither should your lack of university degree. This industry is about determination, and personal qualities....."

I had it from the stallions mouth, so it isn't going to stop me!
I have the determination, and I have seen the industry from the inside.....so lets go!

All the best!

planecrazy.eu

GTE Thanks for that info. One think i would like you to maybe say a little more about is that course at Brunel where you said you might be able to get your food on the flight line before leaving? Is that a placement year or???? I havn't came accross that course, poor research on my part i think.

Genghis the Engineer

Brunel's course is an engineering course, which includes flying as part of the engineering education.

But, Brunel also has a long track record of 1-year work placements, usually before your final year. Clearly, if you are looking for a long term aircraft industry career, then you (and presumably the University) are going to try and achieve, if you go for that option, a placement in an aircraft company.

So, if it went well, you could hit 23ish with a PPL (with Cabair), an accredited aero-eng degree, a year's experience working somewhere in the aircraft industry [okay, and a fairly sizeable debt]. Arguably a good position from which to make a firm decision about what you really want to do, and how you're going to go about it.

I'll confess that my inside source is that course's admissions tutor, who I was speaking to last week. She told me that the first year's intake is likely to be about 18 people, but that they've room for another half a dozen (presumably if they're good enough) in clearing.

G

ghost_rider20

That was a bit harsh, DO NOT give up if it is your dream, and you have the passion and dedication you will eventually succeed!!Dont ever let people put you down and good luck

hustler how can you say to give up now with those grades surely even if you meet the minimum requirements then you are just as eligable for the job as the next guy?[/quote]

EI-Shamrock

Do you have to be a British citizen to do some flying with university air squadrons or to get a Duke of Edinburgh Award?

Genghis the Engineer

To be a UAS student, you have to be eligible to join the RAF. Most commonwealth citizens are I think eligible, but I'm not sure about being Irish - shouldn't be too hard to find out.

To do the DofE award, you just have to be prepared to put a lot of effort in. I don't think anybody cares at-all what your nationality is.

G

EI-Shamrock

I found out you have to be British or from a Commonwealth country so that rules me out.

scroggs

Actually, Irish nationals certainly used to be able to join the UK Armed Services. This arrangement may have been superceded since I was in recruiting, but it may not. If it is still the case, you may be able to join a UAS.

Scroggs

EI-Shamrock

I've been having a look at the different UAS websites. Here's what some of them have to say;

Bristol UAS - A British National (or dependent territory).
Cambridge UAS - A citizen of the United Kingdom, the Commonwealth or of the Republic of Ireland.
Oxford UAS - You should be a citizen of Britain or the Commonwealth. Republic of Ireland citizens may be accepted for ground roles.

I think you have to be a British citizen since birth or holder of dual British/other nationality to become a RAF pilot, so I'm still unsure about flying with a UAS. Before anyone suggests it, taking British citizenship is not an option.

scroggs

As I recall, an Irish citizen can take any role in the UK Services. You can check through the RAF Careers website, or via any Armed Forces Careers Office.

Scroggs

EI-Shamrock

Yeah, I was on the RAF careers website, and it said you must be a "British citizen since birth or holder of dual British/other nationality" to fly for the RAF. At the moment I'm presuming it's the same for UAS.

Vortex Thing

It was the same as the service requirements for officer entry when I joined my UAS.

Selection though was difficult and from a fairly recent visit is still so. They are not really llokng for people to come and do a bit of flying unless they can see the positive benefits to the service in years to come.

i.e. join up or go off and become a military friendly captain of industry but it isn't really as much of a scoial club as our OTC was where many were clearly neither going to go to RMAS or even captain thier own lives much less industry.

Best of luck
VT

rick0

Hi,

I've just started 6th form doing Physics and ICT - im enjoying them both alot. One thing though - I really dont wanna go to Uni at the moment and everyone says that I need atleast 3 A(S)*?* levels to get in to, er, most.. right? well anyway, wouldn't a good plan be; after 6th form leave and get a job --> save up --> go to a flightschool or something.

My financial side is quite good for someone of my age and i'm confident that after a while i'd be okay financially to start the full thing. I was looking at stapleford flying centre and i kinda worked out their zero to fATPL course is something like £31k.. right? well, they look pretty good.. hm, what do you think?

Thanks