Professional Pilot Training (includes ground studies)A forum for those on the steep path to that coveted professional licence. Whether studying for the written exams, training for the flight tests or building experience here's where you can hang out.
Well i have already quit Uni last year, and its been the best thing i have ever done! I have seen some of the world, had jobs i never would have had and have learnt more about how to be a pilot than i have in the whole 21 years of my life, i have done what i class as 3 or 4 years of things in the last 8 months. When i was at Uni i never knew how to even be a pilot, now i know i think too much as i seem to have too many options and routes to choose from. Uni has not been a waste as i have still put two years study in, and i have learnt alot about myself and other important facts of life. All i think is if you leave, make sure you use the time constructive and dont just sit around thinking.
As for ATPL, its going to be a Loan of some sort, i have not been blessed with a well off family, my family dont even have a house to secure a loan on as they rent, so every penny will come from me. I have built my credit the last three years and have a nice credit score which i am sure will help. I calculate even if i have to work for the next six years to save up i will still not be "too old" to get a job, even though it would be harder, just hope it wont come to that. But getting into more student debt wont help my cause i dont think, just another 7k i can put towards my training, as Uni fees are 3k this year and a place in London is a fair price too.
My problem, 4 Years on an aviation related degree and try get a modular ATPL, OR 2 Years or less on an Integrated ATPL?
I am trying to think what would make me more emplyable, and i think an integrated might be the choice as otherwise i will be 26/7 and even with a degree its going to be harder to get a job, and by that time the job market prob would have declined, at the moment i have read and heard it might be the easiest it will ever be to get that first job?
You have to keep your options wide open in this industry, as the ratio of applicants to people who make it to the right hand seat is quite frankly a little disconcerting. Although it has also been pointed out here many times that the situation for wannabe’s has never been so good. How long it will last….who knows?
Speaking from an academic point of view, and not confining my opinions to the flying world. Breaking into industry, any industry, in the UK at least is not easy. Years ago when not so many people attended university, a degree was considered in such high esteem. Now there are so many universities churning out so many graduates, the market has become flooded. Great if you’re an employer – you can pick the best of the bunch. On the other hand, as a graduate it’s a dog eat dog world out there.
So, how can you better increase your employability? Well, at my university they encourage people to go that extra mile and go further than just a bachelor’s degree, providing the candidate has the appropriate academic ability.
If you look at companies such as Airbus or Rolls-Royce, they now prefer graduates, for example in Engineering, with an MEng rather than a BEng. A friend of mine at BAE told me that although they accept bachelors, masters qualified applicants are much preferred. Finally, the reputation of the University itself is very important. I’m not going to list good or bad institutions, you can find out in the various guides and polls. But, despite what some employers say, it does matter what university you studied at!!!
As for me, I bit the bullet and opted for a PhD, and whilst doing it, I plan to go down the modular route of commercial training. The truth is, I’m not doing this PhD to get a job as a pilot, because although I’m sure airlines would look favourably on a PhD, I’ve been told it won’t help one bit. I’m doing it because:
a) It’s a really interesting aerospace related project that I couldn’t refuse undertaking
b) Just in case I’m in the large percentile of people who don’t make it to the right hand seat.
c) It is a qualification that is held in the highest esteem in most industries, including mine. It will improve my employability and open doors to research jobs where a doctorate is a prerequisite.
The choice is obviously yours. Just remember the risks you’re taking when embarking upon flight training. Yes, University is also a risk and with the new fee’s/loans system coming into fruition, new graduates are going to end up with even more debt than they currently acquire! There’s pro’s and cons to both sides of the argument. But I’d always advise a good education first.
if i was you i would just go straight to flying school because airlines dotn look at ur gcese grades they only look at your liecence grades if you got any mroe questions send me a latter
gd luck
You headed your post "this is facts". Where did these "facts" come from? Unless you are one of the very few lucky people to be recommended to an airline from an FTO you can be VERY sure your education results will be looked at. It is one of the primary ways HR departments will filter out CVs from the vast pile they receive!
Also, i love, with your grammar and spelling you won't stand a chance to get your CV read!
After a year into my degree, I was accepted onto what is seen as one of the best FTOs in the UK. Obviously, having completed 1/3 of my degree, I was in a small predicament as to what to do.
I was fortunate enough to be doing a job that summer where I worked with 2 pilots everyday so went about asking them what they though I sould do... leave uni to fly or finish my degree.
I would say that about 90% of the pilots I spoke to told me to finish my degree as it is such a fickle industry. The fact that one can lose their medical at ANY time in their life and at such short notice, should really be a warning shot to anyone looking to becoming a pilot.
I was told that they knew of guys who lost their medicals in their 30s for various reasons and having no degree, had nothing to fall back onto.
I was fortunate that my FTO were understanding enough to let me defer my place and start the training once I had graduated.
Im not going to go into the other benefits of uni as Im sure they have been debated ad nauseam but would definitley reccomend the university 1st route if it is available to you.
Just graduated from Leeds on the Aviation degree that they do there, although there are undoubtedly some elements you really do wonder what the relevance to aviation is, on the whole its a good course. A lot of the research that you do gets you understanding areas of aviation that they dont teach you. Im glad that I did the course because at the end of the day I now have a BSc to fall back on but part of me wishes id gone straight into flight training. However as many before me on the post have said uni will give you a fallback plan and I think that being at uni matured me in the end as well as giving me a lot of good memories.
I thought I'd bring your attention to a new course at Kingston. Below is information about the one-year top-up. You can do a two year Foundation Degree incorporating ATPL theory. I'll be interesting to see whether you will be able to do the top-up with a f/ATPL or full ATPL. Full details of the top-up aren't available yet.
BSc (Hons) in Aviation Studies
The BSc in Aviation Studies is offered as a level three honours top up and is available in full time and part time mode. The part time block intense delivery pattern is designed for those in employment and should be particularly attractive to those who wish to gain a degree whilst still in employment. The individual and group project modules may be work based. Entry to the top up is also available to pilots with an ATPL who wish to upgrade their qualifications.
What career options would be open to you with this degree???
Well i was told that Degree's attached to training aren't really worth the paper they are on. Your much better of taking an Actual degree rather than a degree that teaches you what you already know. But i am open to other peoples views on this, i still have a Uni offer i can take which is a Degree and ATPL combined, i just got the feeling that the degree would be worthless.
I know what you mean. I think it would be nice though to get a BSc (Hons) in just one year, to build on your knowledge of the ATPL exams. I think I'll do part-time and/or distance learning AFTER flight training for a degree in Maths or French or Music or something . Depending on where I end up, I'll probably have to look at the Open University .
P.S. Scroggs, is it possible that you could delete all the posts that are making of this thread?
Take out maximum student loans, put them in a high interest savings account and work your way through uni. That way you wont be in debt and will have a hefty amount of money to put towards your flight training.
There is no point in going to university for the sake of getting a degree. I have chosen not to go, but my pilot training is my equivlent. I personally have nothing against the idea of going for someone else, but belive I would do myself more favours by not running my self in to student detb and not being able to afford the pilot training in the long run. It would probably take me years to get the money together.
I am considering doing a top up course like the one a Kingston. This way I am killing two birds with one stone and will be an airline pilot then graduate in not too long. If you work hard and can achieve a 1st Class honours, I think this would leave you looking very attractive to any employer. To be able to say you are or have been a B737 pilot to anyone will result in an automatic gesture of respect and put you in a ranking of a Dr or lawyer. Many people are unware of how you become a pilot and most believe you have to be a genius to get there!
I've had a change of mind about whether or not to go to university. Looking at the major US airlines, they all require pilots to have degrees. How long until it becomes necessary for pilots in Europe to have degrees? If there is a large number of low-hour pilots searching for jobs, a proper degree would probably be looked on favourably. I was looking through CVs/applications for a job, where a degree is completelyunnecessary, and yet a person who had a degree was favoured above the others. I don't think I should turn down the opportunity of free third level education/university either. I'm thinking about doing a degree in AeroEng or Avionics at University of Limerick or University of Glasgow (I'd have free accom in Glasgow too!). I would have to pay fees if I go to England, so that is off-putting, although Kingston seem to have very good courses. I wouldn't rule out any English university just yet. If anyone could give me information about degrees/careers in AeroEng, Avionics, or similar, or direct me to websites, I'd really appreciate it.
Well are you interested in aero eng or avionics themselves or not - don't do them simply as you want to fly, as they are highly technical and very divorced from the actual flying to which you presumably aspire. What are you good at in school - choose your degree that way.
I realise that they are very different to flying. I want to go to university, not just for the sake of getting a degree, but to benefit me. I have the belief in myself that with my current qualifications and life experiences (I have done a lot these last 17 years! ) that I could succeed, but there's still a lot for me to learn and experience. Going to university would represent a great opportunity for me. It would also give me time to explore different areas of aviation, particularly on summer hols when I could get work experience/a job or do a PPL.
I would like to do a degree related to the aeronautical/aerospace industry because I'm very interested in it. If I were to lose a pilot job in the future, I would still like to be involved in aviation. I'm interested in both careers, and would like to work in those or similar fields, even though becoming a pilot is my main goal.
I've considered doing music or modern languages, and I've looked at all my other options, but I couldn't see myself being very interested in them as a career in the long-term. I'm an all-rounder, so there's no weak spot to avoid. I probably find Physics the most interesting subject, so naturally I would prefer a techie degree.
P.S. Thanks Scroggs! (The thread is legible again )
My advise would be to do both. I have been accepted on a course at Buckingham University. The degree is Air Transport Management and then at the same time I will be following the CABAIR Modular Course. The reason I wanted to do this is that it is another string to my bow. I can use the degree if something hapens to my medical or for any other reason that I cant fly. It also looks more appealing to any possible airlines etc. that may offer jobs in years to come.
FI jobs will always be avaliable. I have generaly found from my experiance that turnover is quite high. So I would seriously consider going to uni first or training at the same time. I am sure that the people who have offered you the job would be understanding about your choices.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ask26 1 Potential RAF Fastjet who failed final Medical, Degree - 100 Military Hours
1 Military ATC, flying UAS, Degree - 80 Military Hours
1 Civilian ATC, flying UAS, PPL, Degree - 100+ Hours
1 PPL, flying UAS, Degree - 75+ Hours
1 TFly Cabin Crew, Degree - 30 Hours
1 Ground Handler Servicair, No Degree, - 40 Hours + 70 Glider
1 Aeronautical Degree from a Top Uni - 0 Hours
1 Engineering Degree from a Top Uni - 0 Hours
What exactly is a "Top Uni"? How is that judged? Does it refer to a university that excels in the aeronautical engineering field for example, or is it based on perceived prestige?
. Depending on where I end up, I'll probably have to look at the Open University 
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posts that are making 
) that I could succeed, but there's still a lot for me to learn and experience. Going to university would represent a great opportunity for me. It would also give me time to explore different areas of aviation, particularly on summer hols when I could get work experience/a job or do a PPL.
Dont pass up Uni
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