ADVICE ON BUYING AN AIRCRAFT
 

I have been flying for over 20 years, initially military helicopters and now civilian fixed wing on a PPL. I have reached the joyous stage in my life where the kids have grown up, the house is paid for and I (at last!) have some spare cash.

I am keen not to waste the years of my late 40s and 50s and to really go for it and buy an aeroplane. I suppose I have been shielded from the true cost of ownership by my many years in the military. As a result I have little idea of the real costs.

I am considering buying something simple, say a 172 or a Warrior. I don't really feel the need for anything bigger or more complex nor do I want to go down the multi route. I want to keep it as an affordable hobby and don't want ownership to take over my life.

I have also considered sharing with others and would be prepared to go into partnership with maybe one or two trusted others.

Also, what thoughts on N registered aircraft? I have an FAA CPL/multi/IR so if it made sense, I might consider an N registered aircraft.

I should be grateful for advice from anyone who has been through the same thought process.

It is difficult to put all the pros and cons of ownership in one message but I will try to cover salient points and if you require more details I would be happy to send them to you. I operated a Cessna 172 as sole owner for about 9 years. The type was ideal for my purposes, touring and farm strip visits, as it cruised at about the same speed as my brain operated. Fixed-gear, fixed pitch, fairly simple and, relatively, cheap to operate. Without going into bean-counter speak trying to asses costs at 2001 prices I reckoned that my flying (200 plus hrs per year) cost in the region of £35 per hour. The fixed costs are fairly easy to assess: Insurance, hangarage/parking, fuel (at about 30 litres an hour), radio licence, CofA charges etc. The difficulty comes with the maintenance and as sole owner you pick up the tab for everything. For an extreme example, having budgeted for a star-annual and respray one year, the engineer discovered crankshaft corrosion. This was a major surprise as the engine had been zero-lifed 3 years before and I was not expecting to have major expenditure on it for about 10 years. Total bill nearly £10,000. If you can find a good friend to take a 50% share of the aircraft, this will obviously halve your fixed costs and should'nt limit your use too much. The dynamics of Group-ownership is worthy of a major study in itself, but having previously belonged to one with 6 members and not being the most patient of individuals I found the standards other people were prepared to accept vexing. I am sure they also had similar views about my flying habits. If you are serious about a 172 and are unable to afford one of the new models produced by Cessna since 97 then try to find a Reims-built version which will have been corrosion-proofed during manufacture. Also avoid the 0-320 with the camshaft problem (H2AD)produced between 77 and 81 and stick to an earlier E2D or later D2J models. I thoroughly enjoyed the C172, toured Europe and had an aeroplane available when I wanted it without the pressure of getting it back for the next hirer or co-owner. I have only scratched the surface of the joys and pitfalls of owning an aeroplane but if you would like to e-mail me ([email protected]) I would happily provide more including copies of the maintenance bills.

[This message has been edited by B9 (edited 12 January 2001).]

Many thanks for that, a really useful start point. I'll be in touch via e mail in due course.

unclearthur,

If you are interested in buying an excellent C172, drop me a line.
My dad owns one with a mate of his and he is looking to sell it.
I will get more info on it if you like. I have done approx 250 hours on it and she flies like a dream, Oh and its full airways.

SC......................................

Unclearthur

It is not cheap to own an aircraft and your expenses are also linked to the standard of maintenance that you want to have. I have my a/c since last Christmas. During this year I had to repair one of the main gears (cracked due to heavy landing – not me) so I took the opportunity and did some other jobs. The Turn Co-ordinator had to be replaced, I had CO in the cockpit and one cylinder had to be removed for repair and now the Attitude Indicator had to be sent for repair not forgetting a new set of radios that still need to be fitted (~ £6000). I had to buy in the USA a special type of oil, $35 for the oil and $55 for UPS. You always want to improve and repair. However, to have it when you want it and to find it in the condition that you have left it last time is great.
I don’t know if ‘N’ Reg. will make a big difference in your case. ‘G’ Reg. requires 50h check while ‘N’ only 100h and annual. It is strongly advised to have 50h check and to change oil every 25h unless you fly very often. Not every engineer can sign an ‘N’ reg so sometime you have to wait until the aircraft is signed and it is frustrating. A FAA approved shop must repair every part that is fitted, if you can not find one to do the job you pay UPS to take it for you. Also, to change from ‘G’ to ‘N’ can cost you some £2-£3k. The big plus for you are your FAA ratings, mainly the IR. If you will add instructor rating than you will find work (not much) in carrying the Bi-Annuals.
To have your own is not cheap but it is a lot of fun.

Skycrusier
If I understood the regulation about the FM immunity correctly your radios must be FM immune, otherwise you will be refused entry into certain types of controlled airspace.

There are people here who have obviously owned far more than my couple of aeroplanes and can give you more wisdom.

But I'll say one thing, I am able to do my own servicing so I do (I don't do the annual, I think somebody else should look at it once a year). I'm not sure I could afford to own an aeroplane if I had to pay somebody else to do all the servicing.

Which basically comes down to, you must have either (a) Pots of cash, or (b) a private CofA and moderate amounts of cash, or (c) a permit to fly, and some time and inclination to get your hands dirty.

There are some interesting aeroplanes on permits too, the real pain is that the law at present won't let you fly night / IMC in them.

G

Unclearthur,
Obviously I don't know all your aims regarding ownership. I am now in my second group aircraft, and can only report relating to my personal experiences. Firstly, you have got to have a reasonable idea of the number of hours you fly in a year. That can help out comparing the costs versus club hire rates, which are a reasonable baseline. My current a/c is a 4 seat French bent winger on Private CoA, which flies a He** of a lot nicer than a spamcan. Being wood/fabric helps. Everything is repairable, unlike aluminium. We have 8 in the group, but it is stable, well founded, and the plane does 150 hrs/year which helps keep everything ticking over. Good rules really matter, as does building up an engine replacement fund.
I believe that my annual costs are similar to running another 2nd hand car. Can you honestly afford 8 cars?
E mail if you want any further info. ([email protected])

So far so good. Some excellent advice there. I shall e mail some of you in due course. Now a couple of specifics.

Hangarage - what is that likely to cost?
Insurance - ball park figures? Is around £1000 for a 4 seater about right?
Engineering - what is the going rate per hour (of the engineer's time)?
Any other hidden costs? Someone mentioned radio licences?

I have looked into ownership in the past and reckon that the fixed costs of hangaring, insurance and annual to be about five grand per annum for a typical single.
That's £100 per week for the pleasure of owning the beast.
Then you will have your flying costs; fuel, wear and tear and 50 hr. checks.
If you can afford an aeroplane all to yourself can I be your friend? :)

B

I too would like to own my own a/c but finances are not so good these days so let me tell you the compromises / solutions I have used and am still developing:
I really enjoy instrument flying but I can't afford an airways equiped aircraft even as a group member. I therefore belong to an extremely well-run group based on a PFA permit 2-seater. This allows me to fly for about £20 per hour but restricted to VFR and 2-seats.
When I expect to file IFR and/or when I need four seats, I rent an aircraft. This gives me a good overall compromise.
The main difficulty with renting is that the availability isn't so good, particularly at weekends. I have overcome this partially by finding a well-equiped privately-owned 4-seater whose owner has it on a PT CofA so it can be rented to me. Although the cost is comparable to commercial renting, the availability is as good as a group aircraft, i.e. almost always available, and like a group aircraft you can fly away for a few days without paying minimum hours per day. I've nearly finalised a "deal" with the owners of a second fast IFR equiped tourer which will improve availability further.
I'm still fine tuning the way I keep my flying costs down, perhaps I should write an article about it for one of the magazines.
If you go the group route, spend time doing your homework first to find out the history of the group. Asking around at the airfield where the a/c is based is always a good start.

What ever you buy get a licenced engineer to look at it befor you part with eny cash ,you may think that the engineer is expensive untill you find that your new pride and joy has to have a string of AD,s at the next check.

Thanks everyone, this is all very useful (and sobering!) stuff. It strikes me that unless you have either pots of money or a conveniently free hangar or a friendly engineer, you may be better sharing the costs with a.n.other.

Have any of you been in a group? What advice would you give?

Unclearthur,

Our group has seven members, we have a 4 seater based in a hangar at Redhill. We structure our group so that if it doesn't fly at all, all of the costs are covered. In other words, the monthly fixed cost for the Aircraft to sit in the Hangar and be insured is the group's monthly costs. We structure it this way so that we then only pay for fuel and oil as the flying costs.

The fixed monthly cost is....wait for it....

£630.00

Hmmmm. Interesting. To take that one stage further, what is the breakdown of the £630? Presumably you are paying £100+ for hangarage and £100+ for insurance. Where does the other £400 or so come from?

Unclearthur,

The PFA route is a far cheaper option.

It really depends what you want to fly, all the above posts seem to be pointing you towards a 4 seat Spamcan or similar.

How many times will you fill all 4 seats?

What sort of flying do you want? If it is beacon bashing/mini airliner flying then the C172 or like may suit you fine.

I co-own a Piper Cub equivalent on a permit.
Fixed costs are £100/month insurance, £300 a year for all the servicing and permit. It runs on mogas and sips 4.5 gph and uses 1 lt of oil every 5 hrs.

Cruise is a not very sprightly 80mph but it is a two seater and v docile. It is kept on a farm strip and hangarage is provided in return for mowing the strip every other week in summer!

Cheap flying.

sNr

Now that sounds like my scene. Do you have a photo of your little baby?

Photo - yep, several!

I'll try and find a flattering one for scanning!

The PFA produce a bimonthly mabgazine called Popular Flying, there are generally twenty aircraft for sale each month, from Kitfoxes through Cubs, Luscombes to RV's, Pitts' and some of the newer plastic fantastics.

I recomend that you join (£38) and see what the organisation does.

Their web site is www.pfa.org

Stik

Stik,

A very interesting site, all about the polyurethane foam association. Are you some kind of pervert?!!!! Some fascinating in depth articles, even some 'recent papers' on the subject. I'll stick to aeroplanes I think, much more fun.

Anyway, Stik, I look forward to seeing a photo of your aeroplane.

Unc

Dhoah!! Apologies. Fascinating site, though!


Try this one for aeroplanes

www.pfa.org.uk


Stik

ps - you want to give me an e-mail address where I can post a piccy of my vintage taildragger?

Uncleauthur,

(Should that be Sgt. Wilson :) ). The costs are £90 per month for each of us, this covers Hanarage, Insurance and the dreaded annual and CoA.

If you intend doing it all by yourself, I would recomend going for a permit Aircraft.