Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Non-Airline Forums > Private Flying
Reload this Page >

Emergency procedures for passengers - Light aircraft

Wikiposts
Search
Private Flying LAA/BMAA/BGA/BPA The sheer pleasure of flight.

Emergency procedures for passengers - Light aircraft

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 2nd Aug 2017, 18:37
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Italy
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Emergency procedures for passengers - Light aircraft

Hi all,

I am a private pilot about to commence CPL and IR training in Europe. Since I frequently fly on light aircraft (PA28, C152), most of the time taking friends, family etc. I have found myself wondering what the ideal position would be for passengers in the event of an emergency landing? I'm not sure if the brace position would be effective because of the flight controls in the passenger seat. There doesn't seem to be any sort of recommendation for this in the flight manuals, any thoughts?
Zero27 is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2017, 21:00
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Cambridge, England, EU
Posts: 3,443
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
I get them thinking about opening the door before touchdown (type dependent), pressing the tit on the ELT if I'm unable, not strangling themselves with the headset lead when exiting the aircraft, and knowing where the fire extinguisher is but running like hell in preference to trying to use it on the ground.
Gertrude the Wombat is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2017, 21:53
  #3 (permalink)  
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 14,216
Received 48 Likes on 24 Posts
The standard airline brace position is designed around a lapstrap only. Virtually all light aeroplanes have a 3-point harness similar to a car seatbelt. The upper torso will be restrained however - and indeed can't reasonably be asked to move forwards, that would go against the basic geometry of the harness.

Therefore the important things are limbs. Most teaching would be that the feet should be firmly flat on the floor, the hands on the knees, and the chin on the chest. That way there's as little potential for limbs to flail as possible.

G
Genghis the Engineer is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2017, 22:15
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Down at the sharp pointy end, where all the weather is made.
Age: 74
Posts: 1,684
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
...I prefer to brief 'grasp right lapel with left hand and vice versa' so arms are crossed on the chest. This might save the vital organs even if limbs are broken.

TOO
TheOddOne is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2017, 23:28
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 2,118
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
And ideally, third hand covering crotch.
flybymike is offline  
Old 3rd Aug 2017, 11:36
  #6 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Italy
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Genghis the Engineer
The standard airline brace position is designed around a lapstrap only. Virtually all light aeroplanes have a 3-point harness similar to a car seatbelt. The upper torso will be restrained however - and indeed can't reasonably be asked to move forwards, that would go against the basic geometry of the harness.

Therefore the important things are limbs. Most teaching would be that the feet should be firmly flat on the floor, the hands on the knees, and the chin on the chest. That way there's as little potential for limbs to flail as possible.

G
Hands on knees you would say? What worries me most is the control column coming forward and into the chest, I doubt it's designed to bend in some way to avoid doing so on impact (or is it?).
Zero27 is offline  
Old 3rd Aug 2017, 13:12
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Barbados
Posts: 411
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I do the door opening thing (my airplane is an Archer II) and wedge the door.

I also tell them to throw the head set in the back and take the biggest bag from the back seat and have it in front of their face.

Not so sure if in an actual emergency it would all happen but the open the door is the most important.
Ebbie 2003 is offline  
Old 3rd Aug 2017, 19:05
  #8 (permalink)  
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 14,216
Received 48 Likes on 24 Posts
Originally Posted by Zero27
Hands on knees you would say? What worries me most is the control column coming forward and into the chest, I doubt it's designed to bend in some way to avoid doing so on impact (or is it?).
On the vast majority of aircraft, no it's not, and I can certainly see the validity of those proposing crossed arms or tucked into the harness. I'm not aware that that has been formally assessed by anybody, but that doesn't make it a bad idea.

G
Genghis the Engineer is offline  
Old 3rd Aug 2017, 19:41
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: In an ever changing place
Posts: 1,039
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by TheOddOne
...I prefer to brief 'grasp right lapel with left hand and vice versa' so arms are crossed on the chest. This might save the vital organs even if limbs are broken.

TOO
Certainly crossing the arms as described may protect the chest from an object ( controls) penetrating the chest, it will not stop internal organs moving around.

The biggest cause of death during a crash, be it in a car or aircraft etc are the heart arteries being severed as a result of a high energy impact and sudden stop, the organs keep moving forwards even the though the body is restrained.
Above The Clouds is offline  
Old 3rd Aug 2017, 22:27
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Just South of the last ice sheet
Posts: 2,678
Received 8 Likes on 3 Posts
Tucking bits between the body and the harness will result in the body mass x velocity crushing said bits between body and harness. Probably better to leave them flail around?
LowNSlow is offline  
Old 4th Aug 2017, 10:57
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Age: 35
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I point out where the emergency equipment is, e.g fire extinguisher and first aid kit are and then proceed to advise what I’ll do if we have an emergency in general, i.e engine failure or fire etc. I then end with showing them how to open the door and undo the harness and to step on the wing and exit backwards towards the rear of the plane when exiting.
squidie is offline  
Old 8th Aug 2017, 07:50
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Hopefully, with an aircraft strapped to my backside...
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Jumper/coat/other item of clothing between yoke and passenger if at all possible - the bolt holding the shoulder strap in the Cessnas I have flown don't look particularly substantial, so I would assume a sufficiently sudden stop might dislodge it. Crossing arms over chest seems like a good idea I will adopt.

The other thing I would advise is for the passenger to pull their feet backwards as hard as possible, as it rather looks like the legs would flail forwards in a sudden stop, potentially injuring them against the sharp edge of the bottom of the dashboard, which wouldn't be ideal if one wants to exit the aircraft under your own steam...

Harness as tight as poss, door unlatched and headset off on PIC's instruction at short final are also conducive to a better outcome, as is a calm head if at all poss...
alexgreyhead is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.