Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Non-Airline Forums > Private Flying
Reload this Page >

VFR across Belgium and Netherlands

Private Flying LAA/BMAA/BGA/BPA The sheer pleasure of flight.

VFR across Belgium and Netherlands

Old 15th Jun 2017, 12:59
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Grenoble, France
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
VFR across Belgium and Netherlands

Hi everybody !
My first message on this forum : retired from airline, I now wish to enjoy VFR. Based in Grenoble (North Alps, France), I fly the mountains during winter and try to navigate through Europe when summer comes. Last year, we flew to Denmark across Switzerland and Germany.

This year, we plan again the same destination but, for a change, via North of France, Belgium and Netherlands.
The project is, after reaching Calais (LFAC), to follow the coast abeam Oostende, Rotterdam, Amsterdam and to land at Texel (EHTX). And, from there join North Germany.
I planned to fly at something like 4000', but after a look on the charts I've just ordered, it does not seem so easy. Therefore, I'm looking for some tips.

First of all, who should you call to go through Koksidge and Oostende areas (not obvious on the map) ?
Also, do I get any chance to follow the dutch coast from South to North ? At what altitude ?

Sorry for this silly questions, but although so simple in IFR, the trip looks a bit tricky in VFR.
Anyway, many thanks in advance for your tips and happy landings !
mbianco is offline  
Old 15th Jun 2017, 15:16
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Sussex, UK
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
In Belgium ATC are very helpful at providing clearances through Class D CTRs. They may specify a different altitude to your preference, but 4000 feet +/- 1000 feet should be possible.


In Netherlands I have found the opposite is true and it is easiest to stay low at 1000 feet. There are no obstacles to hit (but check the chart!) and you have a nice view of the scenery - mostly water features.


Try to visit Midden Zeeland - a very pleasant grass airfield near the coast.


Ostend Approach control the airspace around Ostend and Koksijde (that is from memory of a few years ago, so may have changed).
Tall_Guy_in_a_PA28 is offline  
Old 15th Jun 2017, 15:22
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Aberdeen
Posts: 1,234
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
My memory is similar to tall guy. most of Holland was low level. From memory Amsterdam cleared us up the coats at not above 700ft or something similar. We ended up racing the cars at along the Zandvoort straight!

However further north there are a number of nature reserves and so heights have to be much greater. I would guess getting up that part of the coast at 4000 VFR is always going to be a bit of a lottery.
gasax is offline  
Old 15th Jun 2017, 15:56
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Ansião (PT)
Posts: 2,779
Received 7 Likes on 7 Posts
In BE remain above FL045 and you'll only have Brussels Centre to talk too, much easier.

EBFN Koksijde (sic!) is a bit tricky: it is a military airbase but doesn't see lots of activity. Still it is officially active during business hours, more or less. When not active it is used by a civilian aeroclub, the CTR becomes uncontrolled class G and the TMA is controlled by Ostend indeed. Do check the AIP! https://www.belgocontrol.be/html/bel...aip/eAIP_Main/
Also, EBFN is the base for the Belgian SAR helicopters, meaning it can be closed at short notice in case of a scramble.

Do not plan to land at Koksijde, the aeroclub have (or at least they used to have) an arrangement with the military that requires you to buy a one-year membership. Much better to land at LFAC Calais indeed, I hear their restaurant has opened again. An alternate in BE might be EBKT Kortrijk or EBOS Oostende.

Be aware that NL aerodromes are generally expensive: even for my humble microlight EHMZ wanted more than 20 € landing fee. One cannot blame the aerodromes, though, their authorities make life very hard on them. Also be aware you need to carry an ELT in NL - though I heard rumours a PLB is now accepted, too.

Midden-Zeeland is a fine field enough, but for the cost, with a good restaurant too. I have never been to Texel but it gets universal praise.

Both in BE and in NL, only a mode-S transponder meets the transponder requirements. This is particularly tricky in NL where almost everywhere above 1200' is TMZ; if you wish to fly transponderless in BE you'll have to carefully avoid controlled airspace, which can be tricky.

A last warning: be aware that French is little spoken in the Netherlands. Since you worked with an airline you're supposed to have good English, though, and all Dutch people believe they have very good English - some actually do! All radio in BE and NL will be in English only.
Jan Olieslagers is offline  
Old 15th Jun 2017, 18:07
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Belgium
Posts: 486
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The Belgian airspace is some of the most complicated in this area, small country, lots of conflicting interests. In VFR you certainly need to talk to Ostend Approach coming from Calais. The Ostend TMA starts well before the belgian border.
You should really take a look at Skydemon for flight planning, it gives a nice 3D picture of the airspace and will warn you of infringements.
dirkdj is offline  
Old 15th Jun 2017, 18:31
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: West Sussex, England
Posts: 487
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
By coincidence this Koksi' and Ostend subject is what I am concerned with.

I'm from southern UK and plan to fly on a Friday at this month's end to the EFLEVA fly in at Beverlo/Lepoldsberg/Sanicole EBLE. [Yes three names to search for all at the same spot !]

The EFLEVA folk have generously arranged free Customs clearance at Ostend and a week-end pass in Belgian airspace.

Now how to progress at what level VFR in a straight - almost coastal line - from Calais area & into EBOS (Ostend) ??

Can one without mode 'S' or any txponder do that if calling EBOS - on a Friday?

Might see some of you guys there too. Look out for a blue Rans G-BXRZ.
mikehallam is offline  
Old 15th Jun 2017, 18:55
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Ansião (PT)
Posts: 2,779
Received 7 Likes on 7 Posts
Mike, I am registered for Efleva too - with a similar plane. I would recommend you plan for Ostend, and once flying call Ostend well in time, but make sure to have a good plan B (I have a recent bad experience with them, doing all they could to make me welcome then at the last instant refusing me for lack of a transponder). Calais would be my normal recommendation, but in this particular case one main sponsor of the event is based at EBKT. When all else fails, LFAC Calais will still work.

PS and be aware EBOS is a big airport - land on the numbers and you'll have such a long taxi run that the Airbus behind you needs to go around - not a pleasant thought, though perfectly legal.

But perhaps we ought not to hijack Michel's thread. Feel free to pm me about Efleva, I'll be glad to be of help - or start a separate thread?

Last edited by Jan Olieslagers; 15th Jun 2017 at 19:47.
Jan Olieslagers is offline  
Old 15th Jun 2017, 20:36
  #8 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Grenoble, France
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
No problem with "my" thread ! Boy, that's an active forum, with several answers in no time.
Thanks to all for the items you highlighted. Will help for sure.
So I plan to fly above 45 across BE but expect to descend to 1000' at the Dutch border.
I'm now going to spend some time on the map and also with Skydemon.
Thanks again,
Michel
mbianco is offline  
Old 16th Jun 2017, 09:06
  #9 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Grenoble, France
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by dirkdj
You should really take a look at Skydemon for flight planning, it gives a nice 3D picture of the airspace and will warn you of infringements.
3D of the airspace ? How can you get that from SD ?
mbianco is offline  
Old 16th Jun 2017, 10:13
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 135
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Ah IFR so simple - point and shoot over hundreds of nm's.

VFR, this would normally be a low level route. e.g. from Calais 1500ft contact Lille Info, then Koksijde having first checked notam for low level heli mil activity, usually offshore. Ostend approach 120.6 along coast to COA. Dutch Mil 132.35 (if available due personnel - see standing notam). Passing HSD switch to Ams info 124.3

Coast route - Dutch do not have Right Hand Rule. Note passing Hague the prohibited airspace EHP25. Pass Ijmiuden, 1200ft to remain below Schiphol TMA.

Call De Kooy 120.130 for crossing either Zulu to Oscar or coast route. Then call friendly Texel, to receive VRP for join at 1500ft. Watch for para activities.

More time planning than flying the detail. Have a good flight.
flyme273 is offline  
Old 16th Jun 2017, 10:18
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 135
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
PS Texel have cycles to rent for island touring.
flyme273 is offline  
Old 16th Jun 2017, 20:10
  #12 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Grenoble, France
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Many thanks, Flyme, for the details on the route. That will be helpful.
Thanks also for the information about the bicycles, that we appreciate a lot.
I'm going right away to my charts !
mbianco is offline  
Old 17th Jun 2017, 07:07
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Here
Posts: 1,874
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
BE is super easy - you can get a service from Brussels and they'll route/coordinate you through everything. Very friendly and very professional...

I route direct everywhere (VFR) at 075 or 085 and very rarely have to leave either my direct track or altitude...
Sam Rutherford is offline  
Old 17th Jun 2017, 16:22
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Belgium
Posts: 486
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
if you are not familiar with Skydemon, you should download a trial version; It runs on PC, iPhone, Android phone/tablet and IPad. There are instructional videos on their website to get started. You can switch between VFR charting and IFR/airways.

You see a plan view of the route, and a vertical view of the altitudes flown, base and tops of airspace etc. Even during the planning stage it will highlight potential problems, Notams, etc.
dirkdj is offline  
Old 21st Jun 2017, 13:26
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: West Sussex, England
Posts: 487
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
BTW.

PRESS RELEASE – 21 June 2017 For immediate release In a joint effort the European Federation of Light, Experimental & Vintage Aircraft (EFLEVA), the Vereniging Vlaamse MotorVliegclubs (VVMV) and the Belgian Aviation Authorities we are pleased to announce that amateur-built and certain historic aircraft registered in European Civil Aviation Conference (ECAC) member states no longer require a permit to over fly Belgian territory for 30 days in a calendar year. A Royal Decré has been published on 21 June 2017 which confirms and details this change. It comes in effect on 1 July.
mikehallam is offline  
Old 21st Jun 2017, 13:29
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Here
Posts: 1,874
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Excellent work by the Belgian LAA stub, VVMV and EFLEVA!
Sam Rutherford is offline  
Old 24th Jun 2017, 09:01
  #17 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Grenoble, France
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Great news for the Home-built !
Thanks,
Michel
mbianco is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.