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Starting Out - Advice

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Starting Out - Advice

Old 21st Apr 2017, 22:06
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Urgh how boring! That's not flying, that's driving a bus, and I'd query your assertion that it's what the majority want to do.

I'd query your assertion the majority don't........


https://www.caa.co.uk/uploadedFiles/...sex%202015.pdf
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Old 22nd Apr 2017, 00:16
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Fascinating data! Must be lonely being the one and only airship pilot.
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Old 22nd Apr 2017, 07:29
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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Buttonpusher. Hi. I remember that Booker turbulence well, having learn't there much the same time as you!. Stopped at about 200 hours [being a bit selfish family wise!].
To the original poster. Eat, sleep, dream, study flying. When wife or partner etc., goes to bed, sit in the armchhair, practise check lists, fly imaginary circuits, emergencies etc. Totally absorb yourself into this different dimension. It sure makes car driving very ordinary. I remember once doing a radar approach into Luton in solid cloud with an instructor [yes, in a 172... you could do that in those days!] and an hour later, was buying potatoes in High Wycombe market. Two completely different worlds in an hour. ENJOY!!!.
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Old 22nd Apr 2017, 08:03
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Originally Posted by PA28181
I'd query your assertion the majority don't........


https://www.caa.co.uk/uploadedFiles/...sex%202015.pdf
I don't understand how you think that data shows that the majority of leisure pilots are happy with the £200 bacon roll run.
It only lists medical certificate holders, missing out all the self declaration medical pilots on the nppl.
It also doesn't tell you what type of flying they do. Aeros? Further training? Vintage aircraft? Self build?
And since you don't need a licence at all to fly gliders in the UK the data doesn't show most glider pilots (or similarly paramotor pilots).
The leisure flying community is far more varied and interesting than you're suggesting.
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Old 22nd Apr 2017, 11:04
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Originally Posted by JEM60
Buttonpusher. Hi. I remember that Booker turbulence well, having learn't there much the same time as you!. Stopped at about 200 hours [being a bit selfish family wise!].
To the original poster. Eat, sleep, dream, study flying. When wife or partner etc., goes to bed, sit in the armchhair, practise check lists, fly imaginary circuits, emergencies etc. Totally absorb yourself into this different dimension. It sure makes car driving very ordinary. I remember once doing a radar approach into Luton in solid cloud with an instructor [yes, in a 172... you could do that in those days!] and an hour later, was buying potatoes in High Wycombe market. Two completely different worlds in an hour. ENJOY!!!.
I always wonder if the days I look up at a prop in the sky and think "I can't believe I do that" will stop. Or even when I fly a 737, will I still look up and be amazed. I really hope so.
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Old 22nd Apr 2017, 22:19
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The leisure flying community is far more varied and interesting than you're suggesting.
Don't recall that suggestion

The OP asked about training for an EASA PPL and then was advised to take up gliding because apparently all powered flying instruction isn't conducted properly and inferior to gliding skills.

To add insult you consider powered flying is akin to "driving a bus". Like the same A320 Bus's that take you to Benidorm.

If I asked where to learn how to get a M/C licence I presume you would think I should buy a push-bike as it is a far superior skill set I would get, and a much more interesting and varied thing to do on two wheels.

Thats my lot with this well drifted thread..
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Old 23rd Apr 2017, 04:27
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+1 for @PA28181
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Old 23rd Apr 2017, 06:57
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Originally Posted by PA28181
Don't recall that suggestion

The OP asked about training for an EASA PPL and then was advised to take up gliding because apparently all powered flying instruction isn't conducted properly and inferior to gliding skills.

To add insult you consider powered flying is akin to "driving a bus". Like the same A320 Bus's that take you to Benidorm..
I said the £200 bacon roll run was like driving a bus. There is much more to power flying than that. And I'm not a glider pilot, I'm a power flying instructor which is how i know that gliding experience tends to sharpen handling skills.


I get disappointed by people who undersell flying in all its forms, which is how your posts read to me.

And it's buses, not Bus's. Are you a greengrocer?
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Old 23rd Apr 2017, 08:31
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Originally Posted by button push ignored
james grainge.

In the days, long - long ago, when you could walk onto the concourse of a passenger airline terminal without a ticket, and a long time before there was security.

I was walking around the airport, just looking at planes.

I remember thinking to myself as an passenger airline Boeing 727 crew disembarked, how much I'd like to do that for a living.

Then I looked up to the other side of the airport, and saw the Boeing 727 that I was Captain on, and realized that in fact, that's what I did do for a living.

The passion has never died. From day one to today. It's the only thing I've ever wanted to do.

As an aircraft spotter in the UK in the 70s. I used to go cycling around airports and airshows with a Jamie. I thought the last name was Grainge, or something like that.
I was told he had also done it, and was flying HS125s, 25 years ago.

Wouldn't by any chance be you would it?
Sadly although that sounds like an amazing time I was not born until almost 15 years later! I am a mere PPL student with many hours to go until I can consider myself a commercial pilot. I just hope that never dies. It's an unusual thing that people who fly feel about planes and the whole process.

Sadly a lot of advice to the wannabes on the forum is derived from some very jaded pilots, as well as some who are simply the best pilots in the world and forget what it is like to be a poor youngster with a dream. Which is sad to see. Best advice I can give anyone starting out with this forum, take things with a bit of salt, and do research from independent sources.
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Old 23rd Apr 2017, 08:36
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Power flying is very expensive

The original poster of this thread was being advised not to pay for an entire course up front because flying schools can close down, and often do.

And he was advised to get his aviation medical up front just in case there was any problem with his health, before he had spent his money on flying lessons.

Excellent advice. And PA28181 of London who has experienced glider flying, and didn't enjoy it, commented that "gliders don't go anywhere except around in circles" and "you can stand around all day freezing". I think the flights I have mentioned that took place at Shenington on Monday and Tuesday, of more than 600 k, would indicate that gliders certainly do go places, if you are good enough.

James Grainge on post 31 asks "do glider hours count toward the PPL"?
They used to, in the UK, when I got my PPL I had a Silver C cross country in gliding, that's 50 k, and only needed a few hours of power training, so saved a lot of ££ doing it that way. I am not sure what the regulations are these days....
In the US of A, glider hours DO NOT COUNT! Or they didn't when I presented them as part of my UK PPL to the GADO in Orlando....fortunately the official kindly gave me an American license anyway, and I did the IR in Texas. The only thing in flying power that gave me a problem was RT.
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Old 23rd Apr 2017, 10:28
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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Mary
I don't think the phrase "gliders don't go anywhere" was meant to mean a lack of duration or range.
Gliders can and have travelled vast distances and remained airborne longer than powered aircraft. Yes.
But and this is the big But, you cannot climb into a glider and take off, set course in a direction chosen three days ago, fly to a pre-planned destination 300 nm away, land, do whatever you wish for two days and fly home at your convenience.
Your 600k distance depends on where the lift is, where and what the weather is doing.
I don't recall many gliders departing Portmoak for a fly out to Eshott or Fishburn or Carlisle for a day trip.
So let's get the distance thing into perspective ref: "don't go anywhere".
Gliding will teach you stick and rudder skills because to stay airborne as long as possible without power you need to fly the aircraft accurately, "ball in the middle etc" and it is a good thing to learn those skills for fuel saving if nothing else.
During a PFL once, I turned into a hill and after a bit of "rock polishing" in a Cessna 152 to plus 100ft I was rewarded with " bloody glider pilots!" But I still couldn't "go anywhere" except to a better choice of field and then only because the hill happened to be there.
Gliding is a way of life, a dedication, team sport, and requires a minimum of winch/tug driver, hooker up, wing tip runner/signaller to get one pilot airborne.
I can drive to my a/c, pull it out, kick the tyres, push the button and go, severely frowned upon activity at a gliding club.
Rant mode off.
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Old 23rd Apr 2017, 11:03
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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Sensible limits, please!

Crash one, I bet you never did, actually (crash one, that is). You read like an experienced and sensible power pilot.

But to suggest that a PPL with limited experience and hours can jump in his a/c, kick the tyres, push the button, and go.....good grief! Did he check the weather, that guy? has he planned his route? has he filed a flight plan? if not his a/c, has it recently come out of a mechanic's tender care (in that case, defintely beware!) Like me, you are retired, own (I used to) your own baby, and look after it with loving attention. And know its every feature, quirk, panel, limitations, etc etc.

How many PPL with low hours simply can't wait to load up the wife, the kids, or the girlfriend and impress them with his skill as a pilot - when he has less than 500 hours, would you trust the newby with your wife and kids? If he is flying his own light aircraft for business, can he resist the pressure of business though the forecast is crap?

You don't have to look far in the reports to find examples.
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Old 23rd Apr 2017, 11:38
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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I wouldn't dare suggest that a newbie PPL should do as I can do, being a public forum it may be dangerous to even mention such activity.
How many newbie pilots have crashed into their girlfriends garden whilst showing off?
So for the benefit of the newbie, I am in my house, I have checked the weather, clear sunshine, little wind, TAFs and Metars locally and as far as I need to, Notams noted as required, self propelled maintenance up to scratch, the fuel was topped off last weekend, the aircraft is alone in the hangar, doors locked, unless some turd has broken in, in which case that will be addressed in due course, a pre-flight inspection will be performed anyway.
A line will be drawn/plotted on Runway HD if the intended route is outside my 60nm radius. PPR will be obtained if necessary, etc etc. Good enough?
Actually "Crash one" was a call sign I was once required to use ref: those big red vehicles seen on airfields, I hope you never have dealings with them!
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Old 23rd Apr 2017, 16:00
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Button push'
I would agree with all that. Unfortunately the over regulated, stuffed shirt, head up their ass UK would never recognise any amount of flying, training or not, in Daddies Piper cub. The only thing recognised here is an official training establishment.
I went solo in a T21 glider in 1956. Excercise 14 (first solo, there can only be one of those?) I then went solo in another T21 in 1983, excercise 14 (2)
Next in a Cessna 152 1986, excercise 14 (3). Finally in another 152 in 2006 excercise 14 (4).
You cannot buck the system. Give in, go with the flow, sod them all!
It's less painful than banging your head on the wall.
If I had told an instructor I had done this before, I would be treated as a jumped up know it all.
I tried once, never again!
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Old 24th Apr 2017, 10:36
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Sorry I'm not being very clear. Of course Piper cub training is perfectly acceptable in the UK. There are flying schools that teach on them. However if you were to mention at many flying schools that you had XXX hours of flying Piper Cubs with your father, I don't think they would be interested in the fact that you just might be capable of flying one.
Not, I might add that the CAA should be expected to credit that time for the issue of a licence, just that the flying school should respect that you are not a raw, dumb, useless rookie that has never seen an aeroplane before.
When I went to the flying school to begin the PPL course I was current on gliders, I had a share in a single seater, I mentioned that to two instructors, I didn't make a big deal about it, nor expect special treatment, but to start the lessons with demonstrating "basic primary effects of controls" I thought was a bit much. But I said no more and just went with the flow.
No doubt I'll come across here as some kind of smart ass.
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Old 24th Apr 2017, 12:25
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[QUOTE=Crash one;9750671
When I went to the flying school to begin the PPL course I was current on gliders, I had a share in a single seater, I mentioned that to two instructors, I didn't make a big deal about it, nor expect special treatment, but to start the lessons with demonstrating "basic primary effects of controls" I thought was a bit much. But I said no more and just went with the flow.
No doubt I'll come across here as some kind of smart ass.[/QUOTE]

Not a smart ass, Crash, but you need to see it from the instructors point of view. They will have had previous students claiming all sorts of experience that turned out to be invention. Working properly through the syllabus is the only way to make sure it all gets covered. Of course your progress would have been rapid given your previous experience.
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