VFR over water?
Try getting some time in. I flew off-shore helicopters for 12 years (8 000) hours and more sectors than I care to remember. I ditched north of Aberdeen in 13+ degree water. The cold was shattering. Along with the shock and the violence of the impact and the jammed emergency exits I was f***ing grateful to see the surface again, despite being seriously contaminated by jet fuel. The crew and passengers on that aircraft underwent annual survival training and all of us agreed afterwards that the escape drills went to utter rats**t, Once out of the aircraft we reverted to the survival training we had been taught.
We were picked up after 25 mins in the water, all suffering from different degrees of hypothermia and poisoning from the fuel that surrounded us. Yeah, it'll float, but it may be upside down, and if it's a PA28 I doubt it.
Most light FW get their windscreens smashed by the impact on the water and that's what stops you getting the dinghy and the other kit on your freezing, bruised, shocked and terrified way out of the wreck. Your kids are in the back seat? I bet you forget them in the struggle, and stamp on the the wife sitting next to you as you go out of the one small, and awkward door.
I've done at least another 1000 off shore sectors since that. I've flown 19 solo, single engine Atlantic crossings, 200 multi-engine, multi-crew crossings. I respect over water more than most. Survival training is valuable, experience will show you the truth. But no engine knows it's over water. Go do it. If it goes wrong save me a seat on a Gypsy Moth shaped cloud.
There. Is a lot of theory on the web; grab the fact and knowledge while you can.
SND
We were picked up after 25 mins in the water, all suffering from different degrees of hypothermia and poisoning from the fuel that surrounded us. Yeah, it'll float, but it may be upside down, and if it's a PA28 I doubt it.
Most light FW get their windscreens smashed by the impact on the water and that's what stops you getting the dinghy and the other kit on your freezing, bruised, shocked and terrified way out of the wreck. Your kids are in the back seat? I bet you forget them in the struggle, and stamp on the the wife sitting next to you as you go out of the one small, and awkward door.
I've done at least another 1000 off shore sectors since that. I've flown 19 solo, single engine Atlantic crossings, 200 multi-engine, multi-crew crossings. I respect over water more than most. Survival training is valuable, experience will show you the truth. But no engine knows it's over water. Go do it. If it goes wrong save me a seat on a Gypsy Moth shaped cloud.
There. Is a lot of theory on the web; grab the fact and knowledge while you can.
SND
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Rolling20;
Re-reading with the benefit of self not containing a bottle of Rioja it does come over badly
But, from that experience came some good changes to the safety equipment we used then, and it has continued to improve in that sphere of ops since. Most light aircraft do lose their screens on impact and the front seaters get the bow wave, freezing cold full in the chest. The aircraft will usually float for a short time, but the tank vents eventually let the water in, the engine is mighty heavy and drags the aircraft under, speeding the loss of bouyancy.
I do believe that GA does get a bit hung up about single engine over water, I'd be more worried about an engine failure over forest or mountainous terrain. There are always going to be accidents/failures, but if we really assessed the risk in our every day lives we'd never get out of bed. In the UK we live on a small island and while I love flying around it I enjoy exploring different places and there is a lot of pleasure to be had getting there by air in my own time rather than by the timetable of a Gatwick LoCo.
I apologise if I came over as arrogant, but I learned the hard way that day that even the very best training is just that. Its' good, but no substitute for experience.
On a practical note, when I fly SE over water I always carry a STAS unit like the ones issued to the off-shore passengers. In the cold of my ditching I nearly drowned as I tried not to gasp for air. The STAS bottle I carry contains enough air for 5 minutes and allows the desperate breathing that the cold demands of the body. The theory being that once you have escaped you will be breathing surface air and can gasp all you need until you calm yourself into survival mode.
If the water temp is below 15 degrees I wear an immersion suit as well as carrying a dinghy and wearing a life jacket, and the jacket has a spray hood. In training I found spray hoods horribly claustrophobic, but in the real event I was really grateful for it as it broke any waves that were splashing into my face. A sea survival course at thr RGIT, Aberdeen or PTANS Lowestoft is not cheap, but it may just make the critical difference between smiling and waving at a winchman, or greeting him with arms fixed outstretched staring into eternity.
In GA we'll spend £200 going for a burger on a Sunday, when we could spend £200 going for stunning moule frittes on Dieppe harbour, maybe one £200 burger could be a survival course?
Not a great performance from a CRMI!
SND
Re-reading with the benefit of self not containing a bottle of Rioja it does come over badly
But, from that experience came some good changes to the safety equipment we used then, and it has continued to improve in that sphere of ops since. Most light aircraft do lose their screens on impact and the front seaters get the bow wave, freezing cold full in the chest. The aircraft will usually float for a short time, but the tank vents eventually let the water in, the engine is mighty heavy and drags the aircraft under, speeding the loss of bouyancy.
I do believe that GA does get a bit hung up about single engine over water, I'd be more worried about an engine failure over forest or mountainous terrain. There are always going to be accidents/failures, but if we really assessed the risk in our every day lives we'd never get out of bed. In the UK we live on a small island and while I love flying around it I enjoy exploring different places and there is a lot of pleasure to be had getting there by air in my own time rather than by the timetable of a Gatwick LoCo.
I apologise if I came over as arrogant, but I learned the hard way that day that even the very best training is just that. Its' good, but no substitute for experience.
On a practical note, when I fly SE over water I always carry a STAS unit like the ones issued to the off-shore passengers. In the cold of my ditching I nearly drowned as I tried not to gasp for air. The STAS bottle I carry contains enough air for 5 minutes and allows the desperate breathing that the cold demands of the body. The theory being that once you have escaped you will be breathing surface air and can gasp all you need until you calm yourself into survival mode.
If the water temp is below 15 degrees I wear an immersion suit as well as carrying a dinghy and wearing a life jacket, and the jacket has a spray hood. In training I found spray hoods horribly claustrophobic, but in the real event I was really grateful for it as it broke any waves that were splashing into my face. A sea survival course at thr RGIT, Aberdeen or PTANS Lowestoft is not cheap, but it may just make the critical difference between smiling and waving at a winchman, or greeting him with arms fixed outstretched staring into eternity.
In GA we'll spend £200 going for a burger on a Sunday, when we could spend £200 going for stunning moule frittes on Dieppe harbour, maybe one £200 burger could be a survival course?
Not a great performance from a CRMI!
SND
The opening question mentions no engines, could even be about gliding (though I do not think that was meant).
Rolling20;
Re-reading with the benefit of self not containing a bottle of Rioja it does come over badly
But, from that experience came some good changes to the safety equipment we used then, and it has continued to improve in that sphere of ops since. Most light aircraft do lose their screens on impact and the front seaters get the bow wave, freezing cold full in the chest. The aircraft will usually float for a short time, but the tank vents eventually let the water in, the engine is mighty heavy and drags the aircraft under, speeding the loss of bouyancy.
I do believe that GA does get a bit hung up about single engine over water, I'd be more worried about an engine failure over forest or mountainous terrain. There are always going to be accidents/failures, but if we really assessed the risk in our every day lives we'd never get out of bed. In the UK we live on a small island and while I love flying around it I enjoy exploring different places and there is a lot of pleasure to be had getting there by air in my own time rather than by the timetable of a Gatwick LoCo.
I apologise if I came over as arrogant, but I learned the hard way that day that even the very best training is just that. Its' good, but no substitute for experience.
On a practical note, when I fly SE over water I always carry a STAS unit like the ones issued to the off-shore passengers. In the cold of my ditching I nearly drowned as I tried not to gasp for air. The STAS bottle I carry contains enough air for 5 minutes and allows the desperate breathing that the cold demands of the body. The theory being that once you have escaped you will be breathing surface air and can gasp all you need until you calm yourself into survival mode.
If the water temp is below 15 degrees I wear an immersion suit as well as carrying a dinghy and wearing a life jacket, and the jacket has a spray hood. In training I found spray hoods horribly claustrophobic, but in the real event I was really grateful for it as it broke any waves that were splashing into my face. A sea survival course at thr RGIT, Aberdeen or PTANS Lowestoft is not cheap, but it may just make the critical difference between smiling and waving at a winchman, or greeting him with arms fixed outstretched staring into eternity.
In GA we'll spend £200 going for a burger on a Sunday, when we could spend £200 going for stunning moule frittes on Dieppe harbour, maybe one £200 burger could be a survival course?
Not a great performance from a CRMI!
SND
Re-reading with the benefit of self not containing a bottle of Rioja it does come over badly
But, from that experience came some good changes to the safety equipment we used then, and it has continued to improve in that sphere of ops since. Most light aircraft do lose their screens on impact and the front seaters get the bow wave, freezing cold full in the chest. The aircraft will usually float for a short time, but the tank vents eventually let the water in, the engine is mighty heavy and drags the aircraft under, speeding the loss of bouyancy.
I do believe that GA does get a bit hung up about single engine over water, I'd be more worried about an engine failure over forest or mountainous terrain. There are always going to be accidents/failures, but if we really assessed the risk in our every day lives we'd never get out of bed. In the UK we live on a small island and while I love flying around it I enjoy exploring different places and there is a lot of pleasure to be had getting there by air in my own time rather than by the timetable of a Gatwick LoCo.
I apologise if I came over as arrogant, but I learned the hard way that day that even the very best training is just that. Its' good, but no substitute for experience.
On a practical note, when I fly SE over water I always carry a STAS unit like the ones issued to the off-shore passengers. In the cold of my ditching I nearly drowned as I tried not to gasp for air. The STAS bottle I carry contains enough air for 5 minutes and allows the desperate breathing that the cold demands of the body. The theory being that once you have escaped you will be breathing surface air and can gasp all you need until you calm yourself into survival mode.
If the water temp is below 15 degrees I wear an immersion suit as well as carrying a dinghy and wearing a life jacket, and the jacket has a spray hood. In training I found spray hoods horribly claustrophobic, but in the real event I was really grateful for it as it broke any waves that were splashing into my face. A sea survival course at thr RGIT, Aberdeen or PTANS Lowestoft is not cheap, but it may just make the critical difference between smiling and waving at a winchman, or greeting him with arms fixed outstretched staring into eternity.
In GA we'll spend £200 going for a burger on a Sunday, when we could spend £200 going for stunning moule frittes on Dieppe harbour, maybe one £200 burger could be a survival course?
Not a great performance from a CRMI!
SND
STAS (or STASS, as the UK military call it) is Short Term Air Supply System.
That is, a small compressed air supply and integrated mouthpiece, regulator and purge all of which is small enough to be mounted on a lifejacket.
In the US, similar systems are marketed as "SpareAir" and are also available in Europe I've just found.
Looks like this:
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If carried, you should definitely get some training as there are potential health hazards with mis-use; e.g. embolisms etc.
That is, a small compressed air supply and integrated mouthpiece, regulator and purge all of which is small enough to be mounted on a lifejacket.
In the US, similar systems are marketed as "SpareAir" and are also available in Europe I've just found.
Looks like this:
If carried, you should definitely get some training as there are potential health hazards with mis-use; e.g. embolisms etc.
