Egress Inverted
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Egress Inverted
Hey guys I rarely ever come on here to post.. le lurker, but today I have a question.
What is the best thing to do if you end up inverted after, say, an off field landing, or an enthusiastic application of the brakes in a taildragger?
If you just un-do your harness, won't you just flop and break your neck? What's the technique here? Naturally, we won't want to be hanging around upside down for long.
How do you get out of, say, an, RV-type plane, inverted with a tip up canopy? How on earth does one get that open?
Forgive my noobness. Rusty pilot (I think they've got seminars for us now!).
What is the best thing to do if you end up inverted after, say, an off field landing, or an enthusiastic application of the brakes in a taildragger?
If you just un-do your harness, won't you just flop and break your neck? What's the technique here? Naturally, we won't want to be hanging around upside down for long.
How do you get out of, say, an, RV-type plane, inverted with a tip up canopy? How on earth does one get that open?
Forgive my noobness. Rusty pilot (I think they've got seminars for us now!).
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Happily, I can report that I have never had to extricate myself from a crashed plane, so I don't speak from first hand real situation training. I have assisted three people (in two different crashes) though, who have required inverted extrication. One was fatal, so a different situation, he could not help himself.
Yes, there may be a bit of a fall involved, but GA cockpits aren't large, so it's not far. It is important to note as you latch the seat belt, how it will unlatch. I have flown a 1977 C182 a few times recently, whose original factory seatbelt installation (I recognize it) has never been corrected, such that the shoulder harness keyway clips over the pin on the lap belt, but its on the wrong side. SO when you unlatch the lap belt, you're still secured by the shoulder harness, and unlatching it will not be possible until the weigh is removed from it - a very unsafe condition. I have told the owner twice now to have it changed. It's actually a certification requirement that it not be this way. I've encountered a few others ove the years like this. Some can simply have the lap belt halves exchanged side to side, but this does not work for all. If in doubt, carry a webbing cutter, easily available in auto stores.
I have taken the underwater egress course, which is an excellent opportunity to practice this inverted immersed, and blacked out. Happy, "falling" out of the seat is not so much a problem underwater, so you can focus on all of the other challenges!
Canopy aircraft present their own challenges. If the aircraft is certified, there will be a procedure. When I flew DA-42's I familiarized myself with the procedure which is for the back door, it can be unpinned, and [hopefully] pushed out of the way. Other non certified canopy types I have flown (Thorpe T-18 and RV-4) had canopy arches designed to hold the aircraft weight (a roll bar), though I admit that on those long ago occasions, I did not familiarize myself with how to actually open the canopy inverted on the ground.
It is important to know that when a cockpit is inverted, it will be very disorienting. I have swum in the cockpits of inverted Cessna floatplanes during recovery, and it is very disorienting, when all the features you're so used to are in the wrong place. When I went to the aid of the two pilots who flipped their C 170B on the runway in front of me, after assuring that they were not hurt, I asked them to confirm that the master and fuel were turned off. The more senior instructor of the two searched the ceiling of the plane, which was now on the ground, for the fuel selector. I reminded him that it was now above him, between the seats. He still had trouble finding it.
It's very wise to have a plan to get out of whatever you fly, in all situations....
Yes, there may be a bit of a fall involved, but GA cockpits aren't large, so it's not far. It is important to note as you latch the seat belt, how it will unlatch. I have flown a 1977 C182 a few times recently, whose original factory seatbelt installation (I recognize it) has never been corrected, such that the shoulder harness keyway clips over the pin on the lap belt, but its on the wrong side. SO when you unlatch the lap belt, you're still secured by the shoulder harness, and unlatching it will not be possible until the weigh is removed from it - a very unsafe condition. I have told the owner twice now to have it changed. It's actually a certification requirement that it not be this way. I've encountered a few others ove the years like this. Some can simply have the lap belt halves exchanged side to side, but this does not work for all. If in doubt, carry a webbing cutter, easily available in auto stores.
I have taken the underwater egress course, which is an excellent opportunity to practice this inverted immersed, and blacked out. Happy, "falling" out of the seat is not so much a problem underwater, so you can focus on all of the other challenges!
Canopy aircraft present their own challenges. If the aircraft is certified, there will be a procedure. When I flew DA-42's I familiarized myself with the procedure which is for the back door, it can be unpinned, and [hopefully] pushed out of the way. Other non certified canopy types I have flown (Thorpe T-18 and RV-4) had canopy arches designed to hold the aircraft weight (a roll bar), though I admit that on those long ago occasions, I did not familiarize myself with how to actually open the canopy inverted on the ground.
It is important to know that when a cockpit is inverted, it will be very disorienting. I have swum in the cockpits of inverted Cessna floatplanes during recovery, and it is very disorienting, when all the features you're so used to are in the wrong place. When I went to the aid of the two pilots who flipped their C 170B on the runway in front of me, after assuring that they were not hurt, I asked them to confirm that the master and fuel were turned off. The more senior instructor of the two searched the ceiling of the plane, which was now on the ground, for the fuel selector. I reminded him that it was now above him, between the seats. He still had trouble finding it.
It's very wise to have a plan to get out of whatever you fly, in all situations....
Awesome but Affordable
I have heard of 'canopy breakers' but also heard they do not do the job. The late Spencer Flack had to get out of his crashed Sea Fury after an engine failure near RAF Waddington. I think he used his bonedome to smash the canopy. Charlie Hillard in the States and Paul Morgan in the UK in the same type of aircraft were not so lucky and both died. It would be a problem in our Skybolt but at least the biplane top wing would probably keep the canopy off the ground.
Previous thread may be of interest.
A jammed canopy and aircraft on fire. [Archive] - PPRuNe Forums
United States Navy aircrew were instructed that their survival knife (worn in a pouch on the thigh) was the tool for breaking out. This is one available, later model than we had, but all had a serrated edge for use as a saw.
https://www.amazon.com/Ontario-USN-1.../dp/B000MD69WS
A jammed canopy and aircraft on fire. [Archive] - PPRuNe Forums
United States Navy aircrew were instructed that their survival knife (worn in a pouch on the thigh) was the tool for breaking out. This is one available, later model than we had, but all had a serrated edge for use as a saw.
https://www.amazon.com/Ontario-USN-1.../dp/B000MD69WS
A great question.
I keep a hammer, web-cutter and screwdriver in my plane, which has a sliding canopy.
The thought of actually having to use any of them is pretty scary but I hope they might make a difference.
I wouldn't like to try to take any of them through security!
I keep a hammer, web-cutter and screwdriver in my plane, which has a sliding canopy.
The thought of actually having to use any of them is pretty scary but I hope they might make a difference.
I wouldn't like to try to take any of them through security!
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Not an aircraft, but I was once in a car that ended up on its side in a ditch. I don't know exactly how I got out, other than that it must have been through where there wasn't a windscreen any more, but a couple of seconds later I was standing in the road.
I'm not sure there was any conscious thought involved.
I'm not sure there was any conscious thought involved.
Awesome but Affordable
Thank. I tried to order one but got this from Amazon -
Sorry, this item can't be shipped to your selected address. Learn more. You may either change the shipping address or delete the item from your order
Looks as though the H&S or Police do not want these in the UK despite the safety benefit for pilots. Ah well................ foiled again............!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry, this item can't be shipped to your selected address. Learn more. You may either change the shipping address or delete the item from your order
Looks as though the H&S or Police do not want these in the UK despite the safety benefit for pilots. Ah well................ foiled again............!!!!!!!!!!!
a quick gewgle suggests that there are plenty of sources for these in the UK without going to Amaz. Just toddle along to your nearest 'alfords and check out the AA Emergency Hammer. Has glass hammer and seatbelt cutter. Even has a bracket to hold it in your cockpit. Other sources are available.
Drain Bamaged
I did the egress course a few times.
Main things to remember if you have access to an exit next to your seat:
-Close your eyes!
This way it won't matter if you are upside down or not. Plus all kind of fluids may come in contact with them after the ditch, stinging you and renforcing any kind of disorientation you may have.
-Stay strapped until you open your exit door/window.
It keep your orientation good (even with your closed eyes)
It also keep your balance/forces to open the exit. Otherwise you will find yourself like an astronaut in orbit.
-Once your exit is open:
One hand on the frame, the other to unbuckle yourself.
Then you extract yourself from the wreckage in a single move and let your body find its way up.
Still want to open your eyes!? Swim up to the surface!?
One guy during training sessions had to get assitance because he swam like a mad man.....
Toward the bottom of the pool!
And twice!
Quite a feat with an helmet acting like buoy
(They switched all lights off those times, so much for keeping your eyes open to cheat!)
If you don't have access to an exit next to your seat.
-Same drill of closed eyes but this time you will have to unbuckle, find your way to one and open it.
--> If you start to float in the cabin, you Will be pretty much f..ked as you will loose your orientation <---
So practice to find and open your exits like a blind man would do...
Main things to remember if you have access to an exit next to your seat:
-Close your eyes!
This way it won't matter if you are upside down or not. Plus all kind of fluids may come in contact with them after the ditch, stinging you and renforcing any kind of disorientation you may have.
-Stay strapped until you open your exit door/window.
It keep your orientation good (even with your closed eyes)
It also keep your balance/forces to open the exit. Otherwise you will find yourself like an astronaut in orbit.
-Once your exit is open:
One hand on the frame, the other to unbuckle yourself.
Then you extract yourself from the wreckage in a single move and let your body find its way up.
Still want to open your eyes!? Swim up to the surface!?
One guy during training sessions had to get assitance because he swam like a mad man.....
Toward the bottom of the pool!
And twice!
Quite a feat with an helmet acting like buoy
(They switched all lights off those times, so much for keeping your eyes open to cheat!)
If you don't have access to an exit next to your seat.
-Same drill of closed eyes but this time you will have to unbuckle, find your way to one and open it.
--> If you start to float in the cabin, you Will be pretty much f..ked as you will loose your orientation <---
So practice to find and open your exits like a blind man would do...
I doubt the efficacy of the Halfords kit on perspex. The USAF titanium knife should give a chance of hacking your way out of an upturned low-wing, especially if wood and fabric.
It also ensures your arrest if you cannot dispose of it after getting out, especially in Scotland.
It also ensures your arrest if you cannot dispose of it after getting out, especially in Scotland.
A friend and instructor of mine got trapped in a Pitts S2B after an on off-field landing following engine failure (you really do NOT want the engine to fail in a Pitts). It flipped, and he was trapped. Luckily a passing motorist came to his rescue and lifted the plane enough.
Since then he always carries one of those pointy hammer escape things and, instructed by his example, I keep one in the flight suit I wear for aerobatics.
My usual ride, a 182, doesn't have this problem.
Since then he always carries one of those pointy hammer escape things and, instructed by his example, I keep one in the flight suit I wear for aerobatics.
My usual ride, a 182, doesn't have this problem.
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The automotive escape hammers with the pointy spike won't do much to get you out of a GA aircraft with a plexiglass (acrylic) window/canopy, and is useless for those which are lexan (poly carbonate). They work well on auto glass, other than laminated windshields.
If you want to break a plexiglass window, an axe is your best hope, though in truth, there's not so much room to get a swing at it from the inside, particularly with a passenger in there with you.
A trick which works for the majority of single Cessna windshields which do not have the center strip, is to kick out the whole windshield along the top where it meets the roof line. A few Cessnas may have a few bolts along the roof skin into the windshield, and they'll be really heard, but otherwise most Cessna single windshielda are held in be air pressure, their fit in the sealing felt, and the two wing root fairings. If you're motivated enough, you may be able to kick your way out along the top. Once the top is out, the whole windshield should mostly pop out of the side door post and glareshield trim strips. For Cessna pilots, have a really discerning look at the edges of the windshield, and you may find that there's not as much holding it in as you think.
Otherwise kicking out an opening door window will be your easiest, if fitted, that arm which should hold the window partly open, should break off.
For Piper Cherokee, and other types which have the little vent window in the pilot's side window, you'll find that the window will crack the length if kicked at the corner of the vent window hole. You'll still have to work at getting the broken bits of window out of the frame though.
Often around airports, there are derelict airframes, find one like yours and study the window and windshield installation. If you can get permission, try to break one.
For your car side and rear windows, the very best and most simple tool is a spring center punch. Easily available at a hardware store (iron monger?). Try to punch on the etched writing which can usually be found in a corner of the glass. When you buy the punch, practice on something of no value to get the hang of using it.
Avoid trying to use the car windshield as an exit if it's laminated. They are really messy to kick out, and will produce lots of glass dust, which is nasty. If we must get someone out through a car windshield, we'll saw it. To control glass dust, we spray the area to be sawn with shaving foam, which we carry on the fire truck for that purpose.
If you're going to break glass, and there is anyone else around, yell "breaking glass" just before you do, allowing enough time to hear and react to someone who might say whoa. Side windows will burst quite a distance when broken from the inside out.
If you want to break a plexiglass window, an axe is your best hope, though in truth, there's not so much room to get a swing at it from the inside, particularly with a passenger in there with you.
A trick which works for the majority of single Cessna windshields which do not have the center strip, is to kick out the whole windshield along the top where it meets the roof line. A few Cessnas may have a few bolts along the roof skin into the windshield, and they'll be really heard, but otherwise most Cessna single windshielda are held in be air pressure, their fit in the sealing felt, and the two wing root fairings. If you're motivated enough, you may be able to kick your way out along the top. Once the top is out, the whole windshield should mostly pop out of the side door post and glareshield trim strips. For Cessna pilots, have a really discerning look at the edges of the windshield, and you may find that there's not as much holding it in as you think.
Otherwise kicking out an opening door window will be your easiest, if fitted, that arm which should hold the window partly open, should break off.
For Piper Cherokee, and other types which have the little vent window in the pilot's side window, you'll find that the window will crack the length if kicked at the corner of the vent window hole. You'll still have to work at getting the broken bits of window out of the frame though.
Often around airports, there are derelict airframes, find one like yours and study the window and windshield installation. If you can get permission, try to break one.
For your car side and rear windows, the very best and most simple tool is a spring center punch. Easily available at a hardware store (iron monger?). Try to punch on the etched writing which can usually be found in a corner of the glass. When you buy the punch, practice on something of no value to get the hang of using it.
Avoid trying to use the car windshield as an exit if it's laminated. They are really messy to kick out, and will produce lots of glass dust, which is nasty. If we must get someone out through a car windshield, we'll saw it. To control glass dust, we spray the area to be sawn with shaving foam, which we carry on the fire truck for that purpose.
If you're going to break glass, and there is anyone else around, yell "breaking glass" just before you do, allowing enough time to hear and react to someone who might say whoa. Side windows will burst quite a distance when broken from the inside out.
The automotive escape hammers with the pointy spike won't do much to get you out of a GA aircraft with a plexiglass (acrylic) window/canopy, and is useless for those which are lexan (poly carbonate). They work well on auto glass, other than laminated windshields.
The automatic center punch certainly works on car windows. I once saw it done, after my rental car decided to lock its doors with all my things inside and the engine running, as I was clearing snow from the outside.
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Most people have addressed breaking the canopy but ignored
This was part of the Air Cadet brief for the Chippie AEF and said that you gradually loosen the straps until you were resting on the canopy before releasing the straps.
If you just un-do your harness, won't you just flop and break your neck? What's the technique here? Naturally, we won't want to be hanging around upside down for long.
Avoid imitations
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I used to forbid my students on the Bulldog to carry out PFLs over soft fields, due to concerns of the chances of ending up inverted on a substantially built canopy if the donk didn't pick up on the go-around.
After a couple of serious accidents the RAF retro-fitted their Bulldogs with escape hammers/belt cutters. TBH, I didn't rate these hammers very much.
After a couple of serious accidents the RAF retro-fitted their Bulldogs with escape hammers/belt cutters. TBH, I didn't rate these hammers very much.
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Foxmoth I was just thinking actually that the Tutor brief doesn't include inverted egress. I'll ask next time I'm at the AEF. They've probably concluded it's unlikely as you'd abandon the aircraft - but didn't those chaps at Boscombe Down who lost a prop blade in ?2004 carry out a FL? In which case it could have happened to them...
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Sounds like some extra padding for the roof might be needed!
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After a couple of serious accidents the RAF retro-fitted their Bulldogs with escape hammers/belt cutters. TBH, I didn't rate these hammers very much.
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This is a good description of someone getting out of a PA28-181 that ended up inverted following an off airport landing here in Barbados 18 months ago.
Richard the pilot was none too happy to find himself in a position where he could not make the runway after the engine quit as he turned base; he's an experienced pilot, an FAA CFI and a major in the US Civil Air Patrol, also in his seventies and 20 stone plus - so it goes to show unexpected things happen.
At the point the engine quit he would have been at about 450ft AGL, turning left put him landing down wind but also dropped him down form GAIA airport so gave him another 130ft to play with - the tailwind would have added to the landing speed and here we do have winds (only scary landing I did here was a one-off clam day three years ago - very unnerving having no wind!)
Also when you have 20kt winds - one does have to tweak the pattern a little, personally I fly tight into the airport and never extend the downwind without climbing to or above the pattern height.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kR14rzumIVQ
This interview was done a day or so after the incident by the local Nation newspaper - I think more people posting descriptions like this would be a boon to safety, the fact of not panicking comes through in what is said, just fly the airplane.
Richard the pilot was none too happy to find himself in a position where he could not make the runway after the engine quit as he turned base; he's an experienced pilot, an FAA CFI and a major in the US Civil Air Patrol, also in his seventies and 20 stone plus - so it goes to show unexpected things happen.
At the point the engine quit he would have been at about 450ft AGL, turning left put him landing down wind but also dropped him down form GAIA airport so gave him another 130ft to play with - the tailwind would have added to the landing speed and here we do have winds (only scary landing I did here was a one-off clam day three years ago - very unnerving having no wind!)
Also when you have 20kt winds - one does have to tweak the pattern a little, personally I fly tight into the airport and never extend the downwind without climbing to or above the pattern height.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kR14rzumIVQ
This interview was done a day or so after the incident by the local Nation newspaper - I think more people posting descriptions like this would be a boon to safety, the fact of not panicking comes through in what is said, just fly the airplane.
Last edited by Ebbie 2003; 28th Dec 2016 at 14:25.
