Costs of shares
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Costs of shares
Hi all,
I gather this topic has probably been touched on before, but I can't find any information. A few recent PPLs and I are tempted to pitch together to buy an aircraft. We have found a Grumman Cheetah for sub £16,000 with a 215 hours engine since zero timed and 8 months Annual and ARC. I was wondering if anyone has any idea how much the actual cost of aircraft ownership is per month, including insurance, hangar, maintenance and funds (such as engine, prop and paint)?
Any one who can shed some light on this, please let me know.
Thank you
T
I gather this topic has probably been touched on before, but I can't find any information. A few recent PPLs and I are tempted to pitch together to buy an aircraft. We have found a Grumman Cheetah for sub £16,000 with a 215 hours engine since zero timed and 8 months Annual and ARC. I was wondering if anyone has any idea how much the actual cost of aircraft ownership is per month, including insurance, hangar, maintenance and funds (such as engine, prop and paint)?
Any one who can shed some light on this, please let me know.
Thank you
T
Tricky to give accurate figures;
Insurance will depend on pilots hours. My RV with 4 named pilots is currently approx £1200 a year with fairly experienced pilots.
Hangarage will vary wildly depending on where you keep it. Easy to find out; call the airport you have in mind. They often charge a rate based on length X span.
I'm on an LAA permit so annual & ARC fee's are unknown to me but are probably going to hit 4 figures easily. Obviously the larger the group the less these costs will hit individual pockets, but the larger the group the higher the use (potentially) and less availability, if everyone is an active member.
If you have a group of 6 to 8 members, in my opinion, you will have a good compromise of availability and affordability of running the aeroplane.
Insurance will depend on pilots hours. My RV with 4 named pilots is currently approx £1200 a year with fairly experienced pilots.
Hangarage will vary wildly depending on where you keep it. Easy to find out; call the airport you have in mind. They often charge a rate based on length X span.
I'm on an LAA permit so annual & ARC fee's are unknown to me but are probably going to hit 4 figures easily. Obviously the larger the group the less these costs will hit individual pockets, but the larger the group the higher the use (potentially) and less availability, if everyone is an active member.
If you have a group of 6 to 8 members, in my opinion, you will have a good compromise of availability and affordability of running the aeroplane.
Moderator
Tobster,
If you search back, you'll find this to be a frequently discussed topic.
Bear in mind that figures for maintenance will change, as some older aircraft are more burdened by inspections with respect to aging aircraft concerns. Sometimes a deal is not as much a deal as it appears at the beginning.
More discussion is welcomed here, but there's lot's in the archives as well.
If you search back, you'll find this to be a frequently discussed topic.
Bear in mind that figures for maintenance will change, as some older aircraft are more burdened by inspections with respect to aging aircraft concerns. Sometimes a deal is not as much a deal as it appears at the beginning.
More discussion is welcomed here, but there's lot's in the archives as well.
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Insurance: visicover.com have an online quote form. Fill it in and see what it gives.
Hangarage: ask at your airport/s, also check any annual club membership fees and landing fees
ARC: from what I understand, it will cost a fortune in paperwork to swap CAMO. You would want to have a chat with the current maintenance organisation to find out what costs have been and what they foresee.
With an ancient aircraft, find someone who knows about them - and the engines - to give it a really good look-over. Not everyone's idea of a zero-timed engine is the same! And just like some garages are better than others, so will be some CAMOs!
Fuel, oil, maintenance, what is acceptable/unacceptable in paint/upholstery etc are all up to your group. There are a thousand ways to skin the cat!
Hangarage: ask at your airport/s, also check any annual club membership fees and landing fees
ARC: from what I understand, it will cost a fortune in paperwork to swap CAMO. You would want to have a chat with the current maintenance organisation to find out what costs have been and what they foresee.
With an ancient aircraft, find someone who knows about them - and the engines - to give it a really good look-over. Not everyone's idea of a zero-timed engine is the same! And just like some garages are better than others, so will be some CAMOs!
Fuel, oil, maintenance, what is acceptable/unacceptable in paint/upholstery etc are all up to your group. There are a thousand ways to skin the cat!
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We were looking at a slightly higher performance aeroplane (TB20) and the running costs of parking outdoors based at Biggin was around £16k just to have her sitting on the ground.
Which meant that for 4 of us I needed to fly 35 hours or more to be able to break even with renting, excluding the cost of the share, which is pretty good really. But then you may well get incidentals... Ie: replacing instruments, suction replacement...etc... Which will cost a bob or two!
The annual estimates were in line with the current owner' spend. If there is a decent AA5B for £16k - I would be surprised however! Check if it includes VAT, and the state of the aeroplane. I have rarely seen one for less than around £25k (and that's a 1970s with more hours on the clock than you state - look at the engine's age, will it need replacing next year? Compression ratios on last annual? Damage? )
The best advice I can give you however, is to talk to another plane owner at your local airfield. He will shed a lot of light on the buying process etc... Then never buy an aeroplane without having a second independent engineer' opinion if you can get one. It may show that ADs were not kept up / a lot of costs are coming up really soon, and will paint the picture a little clearer.
Which meant that for 4 of us I needed to fly 35 hours or more to be able to break even with renting, excluding the cost of the share, which is pretty good really. But then you may well get incidentals... Ie: replacing instruments, suction replacement...etc... Which will cost a bob or two!
The annual estimates were in line with the current owner' spend. If there is a decent AA5B for £16k - I would be surprised however! Check if it includes VAT, and the state of the aeroplane. I have rarely seen one for less than around £25k (and that's a 1970s with more hours on the clock than you state - look at the engine's age, will it need replacing next year? Compression ratios on last annual? Damage? )
The best advice I can give you however, is to talk to another plane owner at your local airfield. He will shed a lot of light on the buying process etc... Then never buy an aeroplane without having a second independent engineer' opinion if you can get one. It may show that ADs were not kept up / a lot of costs are coming up really soon, and will paint the picture a little clearer.
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There was an old rule of thumb that an aircraft will cost its purchase price again over the next three years to keep it going.
The suggested bottom up process sounds good.
Ins£1000
Hangarage £4000
Annual £3000
Broken Bits on the way..£2000.
Looks like the rule is fairly valid. Good luck with your purchase.
I've always though it is much easier to buy into a group that has already gone through the setup and their hourly/ monthlies will be realistic and proven.
The suggested bottom up process sounds good.
Ins£1000
Hangarage £4000
Annual £3000
Broken Bits on the way..£2000.
Looks like the rule is fairly valid. Good luck with your purchase.
I've always though it is much easier to buy into a group that has already gone through the setup and their hourly/ monthlies will be realistic and proven.
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Regarding operating costs you could look up the documentation of the readers aircraft system called Lisa, run by German magazine Pilotundflugzeug.They operate two Grumman and publish TCO each year.
