Which Charts?

[alex90]

Hello & Happy Monday!

I am currently planning a trip from London (EGKB) down to Rome (LIRU).

I am wondering which charts people are using to fly the Alps and where I can acquire them from. I am particularly looking for up to date 1:250k charts going between Geneva / Lausanne and Italy (preferably laminated).

I am aware of the GAFORS and preferential routes which is definitely one option, especially if the weather isn't perfect. As I have quite a bit of experience flying in mountainous regions, and am familiar with mountain flying techniques as well route planning through mountains, I would be very keen to fly my own route should the weather play ball! If winds allow, a climb to FL140+ to see / go around Mont Blanc springs to mind. ( yes - I fly a turbo arrow which is happy climbing there, and I carry (and use) oxygen and I am also aware of the restricted area LFR30B ). I would want paper (or laminated) charts 1:250k to make my planning, options, and fall-back options should weather not play nice!

I will hopefully be flying back through Croatia, and up through Slovenia, Northern Italy / Austria depending on wx before re-entering Switzerland and heading back to the UK from there.

Would anyone know where I can get up to date VFR 1:250k charts for that area? I know that this is a wide area that I am looking for, but if there was at least a few websites that I could purchase the charts from in the UK it would be really appreciated!

Thank You
Alex

[Jan Olieslagers]

1:250000 is a rare format. It always was, and paper charts getting out of fashion doesn't help.

For Germany and beyond (eastbound), my first shopping stop is usually Friebe, they stock DFS 1:500000 paper charts which I find quite good for planning. I think they offer laminated, too.

[blueandwhite]

If you have a subscription to a tablet app, or know someone who has, you can plan the route and print it out at the scale you require.

[djtaylor]

Rogersdata an Austrian company also cover the area. They cheaper than dfs but perhaps not as clear. They supply direct.

[glider12000]

RocketRoute partner with a lot of charting companies for VFR plate coverage on a moving map. You can then choose your preference for which ever reason you are in.

[alex90]

Thank you glider12000 and blueandwhite,

I do have SkyDemon, and do use digital charts. I can't rate that piece of software highly enough really! Yes you can print them, but even with the enhanced topographic data downloaded, I don't see the passes and ridge lines as accurately as I would like them.

Perhaps this is because I was spoiled in NZ with stunning 1:250k VFR maps, with the height of all possible passes and peaks which made planning a lot easier. This illusion might have been kept up with SIA producing 1:250k VFR charts for the pyrenees too. They were especially useful in bad weather / low cloud to predict weather patterns.

I am particularly interested in cables, and other man-made structures and their precise locations (as some are very hard to spot). I find the SD maps too general on some of these. This is fine if flying with a 1:500k, and flying broad routes such as the GAFORS routes with wide valleys etc... But not perfect if you need to really hug the side of cliffs / mountains to give you that return option should you need it in tighter areas!

Thanks Jan & djtaylor - I'll explore these!

[FullWings]

I have found the Swiss 1:500k VFR chart to be pretty good when it comes to mountain passes, etc. and it covers a lot of the Alps outside Switzerland. OK, it doesn’t have every little nook and cranny on it but by the time you’re down to that scale you’re navigating by visual reference to the terrain I hope?

[alex90]

by the time you’re down to that scale you’re navigating by visual reference to the terrain I hope?

Haha - well of course! I just have a habit of being over-prepared, such that if sh*t hits the fan - I know what my options are without even considering looking at the map. It also allows me to plan "best emergency landing sites" / "best precautionary landing sites" and other items which I find really useful. (ie if I can make it over the pass when the engine fails, are there better landing options on the other side of the ridge?)

[chevvron]

Originally Posted by Jan Olieslagers

1:250000 is a rare format. It always was, and paper charts getting out of fashion doesn't help.

On the contrary, 'quarter mils' are widely used by the UK military and are also published by the CAA. I've always used them since I started my PPL course in spite of the 'standard' spiel from instructors that 'they carry too much information and it confuses the students'.
Where do they get this from? Is it part of the AFI instructional syllabus that they have to say this?
Anyway they're widely used among the microlight fraternity in the UK.

[Jan Olieslagers]

yes yes ok ok, in the UK perhaps, yes
In the rest of the world, paper maps in general and paper maps at 1:250000 in particular are becoming rare.

For my own BE country, being rather smallish, the "official" VFR charts are 1:250.000 - but they are always so late to be published - the 2016 version was only available by July 2016, ISTR - and so notorious for their errors that I've given up on them and now fly on DFS 1:500000 - in a microlight, too.