Racetrack procedure and 'beacon outbound' call
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Racetrack procedure and 'beacon outbound' call
Some confusion between me and Gloucester controller this morning. I was in the hold, then flying the 'alternative' racetrack procedure for NDB/DME 09 - extend the outbound leg of the hold to 8d before turning inbound.
He asked me to maintain 4000 and report beacon outbound. `I thought I was supposed to report beacon outbound when I was abeam the beacon heading outbound - the same point where you would start the hold timing ('wings level or abeam'). However from his subsequent request ('report north abeam the GST') he clearly thought I should have reported as soon as I was over the beacon. (The reason appears to have been so I didn't start the procedure descent until I was heading West away from the hills - sensible.)
I suspect I was wrong, rather than him, but I'm sure that's what I was taught!
Anyone have chapter and verse on this?
He asked me to maintain 4000 and report beacon outbound. `I thought I was supposed to report beacon outbound when I was abeam the beacon heading outbound - the same point where you would start the hold timing ('wings level or abeam'). However from his subsequent request ('report north abeam the GST') he clearly thought I should have reported as soon as I was over the beacon. (The reason appears to have been so I didn't start the procedure descent until I was heading West away from the hills - sensible.)
I suspect I was wrong, rather than him, but I'm sure that's what I was taught!
Anyone have chapter and verse on this?
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Paragraph 6.48 of CAP 413 on pages 28 and 29 to CAP 413.
I interpret this as meaning that if you are overhead the beacon to proceed immediately with the alternate procedure (i.e. no hold), then the call is made over the beacon. If, on the other hand, holds are required, the call is made when abeam the beacon.
I interpret this as meaning that if you are overhead the beacon to proceed immediately with the alternate procedure (i.e. no hold), then the call is made over the beacon. If, on the other hand, holds are required, the call is made when abeam the beacon.
I interpret it in precisely the opposite way!
"Position 3: Pilot reports ‘Callsign, (navigation aid designator) outbound’ (in
Figure 2 when overhead the beacon)."
Figure 2 depicts a hold and does not include a marked position 3.
Figure 3 depicts a base turn (teardrop) and position 3 is overhead the beacon
Figure 4 depicts an "alternative procedure" (racetrack) and position 3 is clearly abeam the beacon at the start of the outbound leg.
Thus I think that tmmorris was correct.
"Position 3: Pilot reports ‘Callsign, (navigation aid designator) outbound’ (in
Figure 2 when overhead the beacon)."
Figure 2 depicts a hold and does not include a marked position 3.
Figure 3 depicts a base turn (teardrop) and position 3 is overhead the beacon
Figure 4 depicts an "alternative procedure" (racetrack) and position 3 is clearly abeam the beacon at the start of the outbound leg.
Thus I think that tmmorris was correct.
He asked you to report 'beacon outbound' not ' outbound in the procedure' so I would have reported over the beacon, otherwise I would have reported ' outbound in the procedure' when abeam the beacon heading out on the extended leg.
Just my view.
Just my view.
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Why not call the tower (in the early evening when things are quiet, they close at 7:30pm Local) and have a chat ?
The guys at Gloucester are very very good, and happy to discuss, educate and/or learn from/with GA.
01452 857700 Extension 229.
The guys at Gloucester are very very good, and happy to discuss, educate and/or learn from/with GA.
01452 857700 Extension 229.
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I did think about calling the tower after landing but it was getting busy. Thanks Mustapha/Bookworm for links to CAP413. Fig 4 seems conclusive so I feel better. But I'm not blaming ATC who were as usual trying to manage a complex environment with minimum controller numbers.
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Hi... it was probably me in the controller's seat. Usual practise at EGBJ when using the 09 NDB/DME alternative or racetrack procedure is to call GST Outbound as you pass over the GST beginning the procedure turn, and if requested call north abeam the GST westbound. The first call helps us update our EATs for subsequent approaches. You might get asked to maintain a specific altitude or level until advised, i.e. north abeam the GST. At that point one of our deemed separations becomes available and we can then depart aircraft off 09 knowing they are deconflicted from you. Any problems give us a call.
