8.33kHz radios, where are they already in use, UK?
Thread Starter
8.33kHz radios, where are they already in use, UK?
so now that we have all been out and bought nice shiny new radios, with 8.33kHz capability (we have, haven't we?) in order to comply with the requirements soon to be in place, where can go where they are already in use?
There must be somewhere? Surely?
There must be somewhere? Surely?
West Wales Radar 127.090 MHZ. They manage Danger Areas in the D201 & D202 block for flying UAVs from West Wales Aberporth when NATS Aberporth not doing so. Was talking to them recently, nice bunch of guys, very helpful, got a direct route through the Danger Areas with a de-confliction service.
Thread Starter
I just went to Cumbernauld website to see what the score is with radio frequencies, what a waste of space. Under "Pilot Info" link says refer to UK Air Pilot. Not a link to the actual info, just refer..... You couldn't get less helpful if you tried.
(or was it kHz? always confused with all them acronyms and codes and abbreviations)
BossEyed
It is a possibility if you are not 8.33 kHz compliant. However if the crossing/entry/exit point is adjacent to West Wales Airport understand that it may be possible if you are talking to West Wales Information on 122.150 mhz.
Asked the West Wales Radar guys about the 8.33 frequency, they never wanted it. As CAA have apparently run out of 25 kHz channels, its all that was available.
It is a possibility if you are not 8.33 kHz compliant. However if the crossing/entry/exit point is adjacent to West Wales Airport understand that it may be possible if you are talking to West Wales Information on 122.150 mhz.
Asked the West Wales Radar guys about the 8.33 frequency, they never wanted it. As CAA have apparently run out of 25 kHz channels, its all that was available.
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At the moment most of the 8.33 throughout Europe is allocated to big airport ATIS and clearance delivery. At £20 000 per radio on some of our aircraft it has been a pricey exercise, but IFR rules meant it had to be done.
Although GA is seeing little in the way of change yet, it is coming and more and more frequencies will be changing to 8.33 over the next few years.
SND
Although GA is seeing little in the way of change yet, it is coming and more and more frequencies will be changing to 8.33 over the next few years.
SND
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The original question is not precise enough, or better, it is two questions in one.
First, yes, there are now quite some 833-only frequencies in use, especially IFR and talking all Europe, there is no way around 833 capability.
Second and also very important to keep in mind, the equipment on many fields has been changed to 833 radios, even though the old 25 frequency may still be assigned and in use. This also has implications when calling such station with an old 25 radio, as decreased range and degradation of quality. Just for an oversimplified picture: if you send on a 25 frequency with a 25 radio to a 833 station, their much narrower filter will only receive 1/3 of the power you transmit (sorry to the engineers for neglecting formulas for the sake of clearness). We had many complaints at my home field about "bad radio" after we had to switch to a 833 radio and it all turned out to be that mismatch.
First, yes, there are now quite some 833-only frequencies in use, especially IFR and talking all Europe, there is no way around 833 capability.
Second and also very important to keep in mind, the equipment on many fields has been changed to 833 radios, even though the old 25 frequency may still be assigned and in use. This also has implications when calling such station with an old 25 radio, as decreased range and degradation of quality. Just for an oversimplified picture: if you send on a 25 frequency with a 25 radio to a 833 station, their much narrower filter will only receive 1/3 of the power you transmit (sorry to the engineers for neglecting formulas for the sake of clearness). We had many complaints at my home field about "bad radio" after we had to switch to a 833 radio and it all turned out to be that mismatch.
West Wales Radar 127.090 MHZ. They manage Danger Areas in the D201 & D202 block for flying UAVs from West Wales Aberporth when NATS Aberporth not doing so. Was talking to them recently, nice bunch of guys, very helpful, got a direct route through the Danger Areas with a de-confliction service.
Isn't 'NATS Aberporth' the NATS staffed ATC radar unit for the Cardigan Bay ranges and 'West Wales Info' the AFIS unit (hence unable to issue clearances) for West Wales Airport aka Aberporth?
Chevvron
West Wales Radar (WWR) manage Danger Areas when NATS Aberporth is not doing so.
West Wales Radar is a West Wales Airport (WWA) asset, using West Wales Airport sited PSR/SSR/VHF RTF but remoted to Newquay ATCU.
Operating procedures provide for non 8.33 compliant aircraft, whereby an entry into a Danger Area being managed by WWR may be possible by WWA obtaining an entry clearance from WWR and relaying it to the aircraft, which as they will be providing AFIS, they can legally do. This will invariably be for a WWA arrival or departure, although if in the vicinity of WWA may facilitate a DACS. According to WWA the limiting factor is their frequency DOC.
Hope you are no longer lost.
West Wales Radar (WWR) manage Danger Areas when NATS Aberporth is not doing so.
West Wales Radar is a West Wales Airport (WWA) asset, using West Wales Airport sited PSR/SSR/VHF RTF but remoted to Newquay ATCU.
Operating procedures provide for non 8.33 compliant aircraft, whereby an entry into a Danger Area being managed by WWR may be possible by WWA obtaining an entry clearance from WWR and relaying it to the aircraft, which as they will be providing AFIS, they can legally do. This will invariably be for a WWA arrival or departure, although if in the vicinity of WWA may facilitate a DACS. According to WWA the limiting factor is their frequency DOC.
Hope you are no longer lost.
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so now that we have all been out and bought nice shiny new radios, with 8.33kHz capability (we have, haven't we?)
Interesting points are being made about the co-channel interference if using 25kHz spacing equipment. Still don't know if we're going to have to replace our base station set...
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We do not want 8.33 at levels that GA flys, EASA is being forced to contribute to GA 8.33 installation and the last thing we need is then having the excuse to wriggle out of paying us for these expensive radios that we don't need and don't want.
The 8.33 spacing is for the airlines, if they need it then they have to pay........... If it comes down to GA levels we also will have to pay.
The 8.33 spacing is for the airlines, if they need it then they have to pay........... If it comes down to GA levels we also will have to pay.
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Still don't know if we're going to have to replace our base station set...
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You might want to take a look at this.
And if you look at from the other perspective, the broader filters in your old 25 kHz spaced radio are likely to interfere with the comms on two or more 8.33 kHz spaced channels.
Originally Posted by ChickenHouse
Second and also very important to keep in mind, the equipment on many fields has been changed to 833 radios, even though the old 25 frequency may still be assigned and in use. This also has implications when calling such station with an old 25 radio, as decreased range and degradation of quality. Just for an oversimplified picture: if you send on a 25 frequency with a 25 radio to a 833 station, their much narrower filter will only receive 1/3 of the power you transmit (sorry to the engineers for neglecting formulas for the sake of clearness). We had many complaints at my home field about "bad radio" after we had to switch to a 833 radio and it all turned out to be that mismatch.
Amazing that areas of UK need over 760 aircraft communication channels within VHF range to prevent interference 
That's seven hundred and sixty channels, or apparently two thousand two hundred and eighty aviation channels now required within conflicting VHF range of each other.
That's seven hundred and sixty channels, or apparently two thousand two hundred and eighty aviation channels now required within conflicting VHF range of each other.
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Amazing that areas of UK need over 760 aircraft communication channels within VHF range to prevent interference That's seven hundred and sixty channels, or apparently two thousand two hundred and eighty aviation channels now required within conflicting VHF range of each other.