Self-Hire Minimum Hours Restriction
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Self-Hire Minimum Hours Restriction
I’ve always wondered what other fields consider to be the minimum amount of time recently logged in the type before being allowed to self-hire an A/C.
For example at my field, if you haven’t flown the A/C either P1 or P./UT within 28 days you have to do a mandatory checkout, and this isn’t a circuit check it’s normally a full hours training.
I believe even taking an instructor with you here and there is good for further training.
For example at my field, if you haven’t flown the A/C either P1 or P./UT within 28 days you have to do a mandatory checkout, and this isn’t a circuit check it’s normally a full hours training.
I believe even taking an instructor with you here and there is good for further training.
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22 days when I hire, but only one circuit with an instructor to regain currency (unless you leave a longer gap, ending up after two months with a few circuits and a PFL, around 40 minutes usually).
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This is something which is set to catch the lowest common denominator in new pilot [lack of] skill. "Mandatory" is a fuzzy term in this case, as it is more likely a club rule, than an actual requirement anywhere. It could also be insurance company based, but if it's the club rule, it is their plane, so compliance is not optional. It is very likely that this mandatory rule is being waived for known, very experienced renters, it certainly has been for me many times over the years.
If a less than 100 TT pilot is flying only one hour a month, they are barely maintaining their skills, and most of that flying should be airwork and circuits, as opposed to XC to maintain hands and feet skills.
If, on the other hand, a 500 pilot, who has regularly flown several hours a month for years, and keeps well practiced in all aspects of flying, takes a six week holiday, then comes back to rent a plan on the seventh week, that pilot will not need an hour dual, if any checkout at all.
Pilots with thousands of hours will become known in certain circles as not requiring checkouts at all. I have experienced this many times while renting/borrowing - there's the plane, go ahead....
If you are required to take the hour of dual, turn it to your advantage. Go up briefed with what you want to accomplish during that hour. As long as it includes some turns, slow flight, and a couple of circuits, you might as well get extra training that you like in there!
If a less than 100 TT pilot is flying only one hour a month, they are barely maintaining their skills, and most of that flying should be airwork and circuits, as opposed to XC to maintain hands and feet skills.
If, on the other hand, a 500 pilot, who has regularly flown several hours a month for years, and keeps well practiced in all aspects of flying, takes a six week holiday, then comes back to rent a plan on the seventh week, that pilot will not need an hour dual, if any checkout at all.
Pilots with thousands of hours will become known in certain circles as not requiring checkouts at all. I have experienced this many times while renting/borrowing - there's the plane, go ahead....
If you are required to take the hour of dual, turn it to your advantage. Go up briefed with what you want to accomplish during that hour. As long as it includes some turns, slow flight, and a couple of circuits, you might as well get extra training that you like in there!
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mothminor That is how we run. There is no limit in the Ops manual and the insurance does not specify any conditions.
Currently all PPLs can self authorise even just after getting their licence.
I'm looking at changing to 100hrs to self auth and 6-8 weeks currency before a check is required
Currently all PPLs can self authorise even just after getting their licence.
I'm looking at changing to 100hrs to self auth and 6-8 weeks currency before a check is required
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I'm aware of at least one flying school which uses the " insurance excuse" to avoid offending some people. (Their privilege)
I reckon insurers are happy to let the renter impose their own conditions rather than to invent imaginary legislation of their own.
I reckon insurers are happy to let the renter impose their own conditions rather than to invent imaginary legislation of their own.
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No such requirement at our club either - as long as you have a minimum RPL then good to go. There isn't anyone to "authorize". Up to the PIC to stay current (90 days, BFR etc.).
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I’m beyond the 100TT mark and have been for years, they check before you are signed off to take the aeroplane (an instructor has to sign you out) and if it’s even a day more than 28 it’s a no-go and a checkout needs to be done. I understand the reason for it as I wouldn’t want anyone taking a 700KB+ aeroplane who hasn’t left the ground in 3 months but I agree 28 days = an hours training is a little OTT.
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Apart from anything else this could push someone into flying in conditions they do not really want to - day 28 and they are down to fly but have a bit of a cold, if you only need a couple of circuits to get back in check then most would probably stay on the ground, with a full hours check out then you might push yourself to fly.
Another thing with this is it can actually be bad for business, if you have to do a full hour the temptation is then to leave it until you need to do it (after all, you could do this then go another 28 days), this stretches until the pilot actually needs to renew and the club may have lost a load of rental - at worst he then decides that he is not using his license and just stops flying!
Another thing with this is it can actually be bad for business, if you have to do a full hour the temptation is then to leave it until you need to do it (after all, you could do this then go another 28 days), this stretches until the pilot actually needs to renew and the club may have lost a load of rental - at worst he then decides that he is not using his license and just stops flying!
For a club currency checkout one circuit should tell you the pilot fits one of 3 groups.
1) Satisfactory flying skills, return to stand, pilot released to fly on his/her own
2) Unsatisfactory flying skills, continue with flight as dual instruction until satisfactory level achieved
3) Gross lack of flying skills. Terminate flight and sit down with CFI to discuss a training plan.
Instructors who are not capable of making the above determination after seeing start, taxi, runup, takeoff, circuit and landing; should not be doing checkouts.
1) Satisfactory flying skills, return to stand, pilot released to fly on his/her own
2) Unsatisfactory flying skills, continue with flight as dual instruction until satisfactory level achieved
3) Gross lack of flying skills. Terminate flight and sit down with CFI to discuss a training plan.
Instructors who are not capable of making the above determination after seeing start, taxi, runup, takeoff, circuit and landing; should not be doing checkouts.
One of the particular problems with 28 day cycle is that if you fly one Saturday, then can't fly until Sunday in 4 weeks' time, then you have to find an instructor... I used to aim to fly once a month as that was all I could afford. Whenever I found myself out of currency it was a faff, and often used to eat up half a day.
I wouldn't mind, except that it was always a case of 'yes, but we're running behind. We'll try and fit you in when we've caught up on the next 2 lessons...' I never found it a simple process.
I wouldn't mind, except that it was always a case of 'yes, but we're running behind. We'll try and fit you in when we've caught up on the next 2 lessons...' I never found it a simple process.
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You might try persuading a club on 28 days to move to 29.
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Any sensible club should have a pragmatic approach. The instructors know which pilots have better handling skills than others
Where I am it's 6 weeks but if you haven't flown for 6 weeks and there is 15kts across the runway they will probably suggest you do a circuit 1st with an instructor.
if you haven't flown for 7 weeks and its a nice still sunny day they are more relaxed.
also it shouldn't be type based either. if someone hasn't flown a simple, benign handling plane in 12 weeks but has recent hours in something more challenging then that should be fine in my book
Where I am it's 6 weeks but if you haven't flown for 6 weeks and there is 15kts across the runway they will probably suggest you do a circuit 1st with an instructor.
if you haven't flown for 7 weeks and its a nice still sunny day they are more relaxed.
also it shouldn't be type based either. if someone hasn't flown a simple, benign handling plane in 12 weeks but has recent hours in something more challenging then that should be fine in my book
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Any sensible club should have a pragmatic approach. The instructors know which pilots have better handling skills than others
Where I am it's 6 weeks but if you haven't flown for 6 weeks and there is 15kts across the runway they will probably suggest you do a circuit 1st with an instructor.
if you haven't flown for 7 weeks and its a nice still sunny day they are more relaxed.
also it shouldn't be type based either. if someone hasn't flown a simple, benign handling plane in 12 weeks but has recent hours in something more challenging then that should be fine in my book
Where I am it's 6 weeks but if you haven't flown for 6 weeks and there is 15kts across the runway they will probably suggest you do a circuit 1st with an instructor.
if you haven't flown for 7 weeks and its a nice still sunny day they are more relaxed.
also it shouldn't be type based either. if someone hasn't flown a simple, benign handling plane in 12 weeks but has recent hours in something more challenging then that should be fine in my book
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I flew from one airfield for a few years where they hard a hard and fast 28 day rule. They didn't apply any sliding scale for experience. Their planes, their rules.
I currently fly from a far busier airfield, and the club take a more pragmatic approach. They look not just at if you've flown in the last 28 days (they're a bit more flexible and look at a month, date to date) but how often you've flown before then too. Depending on that an instructor will jump in for a circuit or two.
About 12-15 months ago I'd flown very infrequently and had not only gone over the 28 days, but had only logged a couple of hours in the preceding 28 days, so asked an instructor to come up with me - bit of insurance and someone to keep me on point. The instructor had flown with me previously and said they would sign me off without a check ride, (discretion of an instructor based on that sliding scale mentality mentioned by others) but they were also happy to come up with me. Did a EFATO, short field approach and a flap-less approach, made me feel better, and reinforced to the instructors that I was mindful of being current and on top of my game.
TPP
I currently fly from a far busier airfield, and the club take a more pragmatic approach. They look not just at if you've flown in the last 28 days (they're a bit more flexible and look at a month, date to date) but how often you've flown before then too. Depending on that an instructor will jump in for a circuit or two.
About 12-15 months ago I'd flown very infrequently and had not only gone over the 28 days, but had only logged a couple of hours in the preceding 28 days, so asked an instructor to come up with me - bit of insurance and someone to keep me on point. The instructor had flown with me previously and said they would sign me off without a check ride, (discretion of an instructor based on that sliding scale mentality mentioned by others) but they were also happy to come up with me. Did a EFATO, short field approach and a flap-less approach, made me feel better, and reinforced to the instructors that I was mindful of being current and on top of my game.
TPP
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I had always assumed this sort of rule gets reinforced by some insurance companies - in the sense that insurance policy is either more expensive or simply unavailable unless clubs include this rule. Does anyone know?
If it is written into insurance policies then I can understand that clubs would have to insist on it being followed even for the most experienced pilots; as they would be flying uninsured otherwise.
If it is written into insurance policies then I can understand that clubs would have to insist on it being followed even for the most experienced pilots; as they would be flying uninsured otherwise.
One school I was involved with used to be pretty loose about the currency requirement until a guy they let slide wrecked an airplane due to a lack of basic flying skills.
Not long before that accident there had been another incident where a renter pilot who got the check ride waived based on recent flying elsewhere, caused heavy damage to an aircraft by trying to make the aircraft land by repeated applications of down elevator in the flare until the nose wheel broke off
The result was a significant increase in insurance premiums.
So now they are hard over on currency with no exceptions.
Do you blame them ?
Not long before that accident there had been another incident where a renter pilot who got the check ride waived based on recent flying elsewhere, caused heavy damage to an aircraft by trying to make the aircraft land by repeated applications of down elevator in the flare until the nose wheel broke off
The result was a significant increase in insurance premiums.
So now they are hard over on currency with no exceptions.
Do you blame them ?
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For a club currency checkout one circuit should tell you the pilot fits one of 3 groups.
1) Satisfactory flying skills, return to stand, pilot released to fly on his/her own
2) Unsatisfactory flying skills, continue with flight as dual instruction until satisfactory level achieved
3) Gross lack of flying skills. Terminate flight and sit down with CFI to discuss a training plan.
Instructors who are not capable of making the above determination after seeing start, taxi, runup, takeoff, circuit and landing; should not be doing checkouts.
1) Satisfactory flying skills, return to stand, pilot released to fly on his/her own
2) Unsatisfactory flying skills, continue with flight as dual instruction until satisfactory level achieved
3) Gross lack of flying skills. Terminate flight and sit down with CFI to discuss a training plan.
Instructors who are not capable of making the above determination after seeing start, taxi, runup, takeoff, circuit and landing; should not be doing checkouts.
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I have my own restrictions which are more strict than regulations. Even it is not required in my school to take check flight with instructor if you have flown in last 90 days, I always take check flight after one month without flying.
There was situation when I had pause for 6 months and planned to take dual flights for 3-4 hours. But after only 1.5 hours instructor told me that I am good and I should continue solo.
So, it depends from club to club, but in all segments i have my own restrictions more strict than regulations, depending on experience.
There was situation when I had pause for 6 months and planned to take dual flights for 3-4 hours. But after only 1.5 hours instructor told me that I am good and I should continue solo.
So, it depends from club to club, but in all segments i have my own restrictions more strict than regulations, depending on experience.