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Old 14th May 2016, 13:05
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Words of wisdom appreciated

Hi folks!

Firstly, this is my first post on this board so apologies for any faux pas, and I hope this question doesn't come up so often you want to slap me upside the head, but I would really appreciate some opinions.

I am about 31 hours into my PPL (15 of which have been circuits), and stuck, and struggling.

Ground school, theory, exams are all good and I've 100%-ed on all so far, but I am struggling and appear to be stuck at the circuit stage in physical flying.

My instructor is wonderful and has been flying 40+ years and has a superb sucess rate, but in recent weeks I feel that she is perhaps losing her patience with me and my lack of progress. As a result lessons are becoming tense for me, and it only takes a couple of poor landings to get me tense and on-edge, which is affecting the remainder. A few times she has mentioned that she has never had a preference for teaching highly academic students, and although I don't think it was directed at me, I can't help feeling I fit into this category.

I suppose I am looking for a sounding board of folks who may have been through something similar, or can help me decide what to do next.

First, what I consider myself to be struggling with other than the odd bits and bobs that come up in the circuit.

Finals, and the flare. I just don't seem to be 'feeling' it. Instructor is still having to take over at the last few seconds. Ballooning a lot and although I can feel it going wrong, I'm still not correcting it (or avoiding it in the first place!). Struggling to keep straight on the runway centreline on finals, and again, athough I can SEE I'm not straight, I just don't seem to be quite getting the right changes to correct it.

Yesterday for the first time I asked to make a full stop rather than another touch&go as I was starting to get upset by the situation, and the air was not a good place to be.

Afterwards I spent a good while considering whether I am perhaps just not cut out for this.

Perhaps I should consider another instructor, although I am very fond of my current one. I do plan to discuss this with her at the next session, but wanted to get some thoughts or try and get my head straight before I do so. If she's getting ratty with me because I'm being a poor student, I don't think swapping to another will help all that much.

Sorry this is a little vague, and apologies if this is the umpteenth time you have read a similar post, but I am grateful for your time and any advice.
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Old 14th May 2016, 14:34
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Mewsie, Welcome.

Have a heart to heart chat with your instructor in a relaxed environment (not the plane!). You are both people, and can chat as mentor and charge, so as to best guide your effort. We all have plateaus in our learning, and that's okay, sometimes you just must reflect on what you have learned, while practicing to cement those skills, before moving on.

If you are having trouble mastering landings, focus on what you know you are being asked to do. Then sit for hours and watch other landings. Picture for yourself what is good and not so good about them, and what you would do for each to make it better. After 40 years of flying, I still do this at the restaurant at the flying club.

Then, when flying, remember that to plane is much more controllable than you think. You are flying, fly it to where you want to to be on approach, and keep it there - don't let it fly you!

Tell your instructor about your concerns, and ask how you can find other ways to learn what is being taught, there are other learning tools, if your instructor knows what you need. Also, consider a running patter to your instructor as you approach to land, speak everything you are thinking and doing. You and your instructor may find that something which would be helpful to you is not in your thought process, or not when it should be.

Good luck!
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Old 14th May 2016, 15:20
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Struggling at this point is normal and I guess almost everybody was there before and 31 into it is quite common for it to appear. I suspect you flew the 31 hours with one instructor? Then my word'a'wisdom is a quite easy one, you may spend too much awareness to the instructor after that time. Just try, get another one for the next 5 hours and probability is high you manage the cliff, as we all did.
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Old 14th May 2016, 15:24
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At your first upcoming lesson, tell your instructor you want to fly to a different field for a cup of coffee. No rush, no lesson, no pushing, no teaching, just a pleasure flight to a field maybe some 20 minutes away. Of course you will need to do a bit of navigation, but keep it simple. Follow line features, or even the magenta line on the GPS. One full stop landing, a cup of coffee, smalltalk, and a relaxed flight home. Flying is supposed to be fun, so you need to bring that back and release some of the tension. And don't forget to enjoy the scenery.

If you have an active club that does flyouts or rallies, you can even tell your instructor you want to participate in such an event, together with him/her. As long as you have a pleasure flight, not a lesson. The instructor is just there to make it all legal.

Next lesson, try the following:
- Approach the runway but do not attempt a landing. Keep the flaps up, don't use carb heat, use a speed at least 1.5 Vs0. That equates to maybe some 50% power or 1800-2000 RPM. Fly over the runway, without touching it, in that configuration maybe 20 feet above the runway.
- Next, do the same but use your rudder to compensate for any x-wind, and aileron to maintain the centerline. Don't touch the runway, but go a little lower this time. Maybe 10 feet, or even 3 feet if you feel like it.
- Next, do the same but with the aircraft in the landing configuration. Full flaps, 1.3 Vs0, carb heat on, maybe something like 1700 RPM. But again, the objective is NOT to land, but to fly along the runway as low as you dare. (At the end of the runway, perform a go-around: Full power, carb heat off, slowly raise flaps & pitch for Vy.)
- Repeat the last item a few times until you feel comfortable flying at a very low altitude, and in the landing configuration along the runway. Properly cross-controlled to compensate for any x-wind. But again, do not touch the runway.
- Now do the same thing but as you are again established, slowly close the throttle. Keep the aircraft flying one feet above the ground in the proper configuration for as long as you can. As soon as you hear the stall warner, freeze the controls in pitch only. Do not pitch up any further, but keep on playing with roll and yaw to compensate for the crosswind. You will probably pull off your best landing ever this time.

Using this technique will use a bit more runway than necessary, but it will help you get the right sight picture. As you get more experience you can approach slower, close the throttle earlier and be at or near your touchdown speed when you flare. But you won't be overcontrolling the flare anymore.
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Old 14th May 2016, 15:38
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mewsie,

Welcome to PPRuNe. Lots of good advice above.

You mention that you are ballooning a lot. Is it possible you are moving the yoke too quickly or possibly jerking it? My advice is to ask your instructor to tell you when to start the flare and then start easing the yoke back until, ideally, you have the yoke all the way back just as the main wheels touch the ground. Try to mentally note the sight-picture when your instructor tells you to flare.

You don't say what aircraft you are flying, but if the seat height is adjustable, make sure you have set it as high as is comfortable, so that you can see more of the runway.

If you touch down earlier, then don't worry about that, just keep easing the stick back, to keep the nosewheel off the ground for as long as possible. Do not jerk the aircraft back into the air, if you touchdown earlier then planned.

Soemthing that you could try, if you haven't done it already, is to get your instructor to do a landing, talking to you as she does it and have you follow-through on the controls, so that you can get a feel for the rate and degree of control movement.

Landing is one of those things that everyone finds difficult to some degree, when they are learning. One day, it will suddenly 'click' and you will wonder why you found it so difficult. Eventually, you will find that flying the aircraft is 'automatic', and you can concentrate on other traffic, the weather, navigation or just enjoying the view.

There is a lot of good advice in other threads on Private Flying. As a start, try a search using the keywords 'landing' and 'advice'.

PS A small correction, meant in the friendliest possible way - it's 'final', not 'finals'.

Last edited by India Four Two; 14th May 2016 at 15:50.
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Old 14th May 2016, 15:56
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I'll not take anything away from the others. Their advice is good. But can I ask a question? Are you looking in or out? I'm going to guess you are trying for 'to the number' perfection. I'm sorry to disappoint you, but that is achieved through experience. Instead aim for TLAR. Set a sensible power setting, fly the track and monitor your airspeed. As you get closer to the ground, LOOK OUTSIDE. The airspeed will be OK, the rate of descent should be OK and your speed should be alright. Then name sure you look down to the far end of the runway and let your peripheral vision do the work.

Happy landings.

PM
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Old 14th May 2016, 16:20
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There's a very good book called "making perfect landings in small airplanes" Google it and buy it.

If you are of an academic turn of mind it will probably help to understand that landing is multiphase activity.

Get established on final at the right speed and with the numbers about a third of the way up the windscreen. Use aileron and Rudder to keep that picture constant

As you get over the runway threshold stop looking at the numbers and look at the far end of the runway, pull gently back on the yoke to get the picture level in the window, close the throttle and then continue to pull very slowly back on the yoke as the aircraft sinks and when you touch down you should have pulled all the way back.

As you roll out keep straight with rudder and gently release the yoke until the nose wheel settles and then steer as desired.

Have that multistage process in your head and get the picture at each stage clear from practice

Good luck it
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Old 14th May 2016, 16:58
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Are you training at Oxford? If so you're having to learn with a xwind more often than not which is bound to make things more difficult. Ask to be taken somewhere quieter and into wind.


Whichever airfield it is, talk to your instructor about the problem and or the CFI.
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Old 14th May 2016, 17:22
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Try a different instructor for a few flights - or even a couple of different instructors. That doesn't mean that you won't still fly with your current instructor but the change of personality, atmosphere and teaching style may help to make things click. There's no disloyalty to your current instructor in doing so and, if anything, she should encourage it.

I actually think all students should fly with different instructors during their training as a matter of course.
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Old 14th May 2016, 20:09
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I think this thread has covered all the usual answers to this common problem in record time :-)


- This happens to many people
- Do a couple of cross-countries, leave the circuit for a while
- See if a different instructor can use different words that are helpful


and various hints on how to land.
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Old 14th May 2016, 21:03
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These questions come up a number of times each year. You're not the first and you won't be the last. Everyone progresses at his/her own pace. You'll get get there. As for "finals and flare," try limiting yourself to one final per flare.
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Old 14th May 2016, 21:23
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After soloing in 3 hours, (previous gliding experience), my landings deteriorated. My instructor chopped the lesson, saying he could do nothing, and passed me to a more experienced instructor, who identified my problem, and gave me instructions to fix it. I was back with the original Instructor that afternoon.
What you need is an instructor who can figure out your problem, and give you instructions to fix it.
(30 hour PPL course on DH82 Jackeroo variant at Thruxton in 1964)
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Old 14th May 2016, 21:40
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I went through a patch of turning a perfect final into a poor touchdown when converting from rotary to fw tricycle uc. The major problem was difficulty judging the height once the ground detail came into focus. The helicopter taxi height (seat to ground) was higher than my fixed wing flying machine but it was lower when actually parked on terra firma. In the fixed wing I just couldn't flair and hold off at the correct height. My instructor figured this out and as I turned onto the runway to take off he stopped me and stopped the engine. We sat looking down the runway for a few minutes and he instructed me to just take in the view, particularly how the far end looks from my eye level after touchdown. The far end is where I should be looking. When landing I should aim to keep just above this point of view until the nose is pointing at the sky and the stick is fully back. After all of the lessons I had done this was the first time I had actually seen what I the site picture should look like. After that it just started to happen, l relaxed, it got better, easy peasy.
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Old 15th May 2016, 15:02
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mewsie

All good advice here, which I'm sure you take away and learn from.

We've all been there, including myself. One day, I had a change of instructor whilst on circuit work. The same 'ballooning' happened. I went around. Immediately the new instructor [RAF] questioned why I hadn't arrested the balloon with easing the yoke slightly forward. I answered his question by saying that I had never been taught. Upon going around in the circuit to the next flair and partial balloon, from that moment on, the technique was mastered.

Hope it helps, and remember, not all landings should be with the yoke back to the stops.
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Old 15th May 2016, 16:04
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mewsie

I am also a PPL student and I was slow to get to grips with the circuit side of things. It took me longer than I thought to get to solo stage and even now it is an area that needs work.

Until you get to the stage where the majority of your approaches are 'good' you don't get a sense of whether the approach you are on 'looks wrong'.

The good news is that over time you will get better, then it should click into place. Also, because you are getting better at the different stages of the circuit, you will start to be a bit more 'ahead of the game' and not having one thing after another to deal with.

Basically I believe that anyone can get there with practice. However as you are finding, for some people it takes longer (and hence costs more).

The thing to remember is that you chose to learn how to fly so that you could fly planes, and you are still flying a plane, you are just having to have an instructor there for a bit longer than the 'average' (whatever that is).

If you feel you want more from your hobby than circuits then ask to do some navigation exercises once in a while.
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Old 15th May 2016, 16:52
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Yes, it's challenging...but have you noticed how everyone else on this thread has had a similar problem in the past and they have eventually managed it?

I would suggest that you ask for a different instructor for a while. Not only will you unwind a touch but he or she may pick up on what you need to get the landings sorted.
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Old 16th May 2016, 01:45
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My 2c...

Landing is hard. I had a lot of trouble making good landings when I did my tailwheel conversion. I switched to a different (much better) instructor and in three lessons I had nailed it and was checked out to solo the Citabria. Even if there is absolutely nothing wrong with your present instructor, a different viewpoint will help.

It's impossible to make a good landing when you're tense and stressed. Unfortunately it's a very stressful thing to do... In my tailwheel conversion I got into that state, I was practically in tears of frustration before I even got in the aircraft. Changing instructors fixed that.

One exercise you should definitely try to do: not landing. Descend to within a foot or two of the runway then with just a little power, hold that altitude for the length of the runway (well, not if you have a 12000 foot runway). Obviously your instructor needs to know what you are doing and probably to show you.

It is very helpful to have the instructor demonstrate something while you follow on the controls. This is very different from yelling "your aircraft" when three feet off the runway.

Hope some of this large collection of advice helps...
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Old 16th May 2016, 10:08
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Wow - this response has been incredible, it means a lot, thank you all.

Just knowing that I am not alone helps (somehow). Getting an answer to the question 'how am I doing, really?' is like getting blood out of a stone with my instructor, and it is reassuring hearing that taking some time is common.

Fantastic suggestions from you all. The concept of trying some not-landings is excellent and I can really see how this would help me a great deal. I love this and will suggest it!

I think getting a cross country in to another environment (with coffee and cake) is a good start. I do feel as though tapping back in to my reasons for doing this will help greatly, and will remove us from the high-pressure of my normal busy airfield. (@MrAverage, I am learning at Staverton/Gloucestershire)

As far as getting some lessons in with an alternative instructor, I agree. I think a fresh set of eyes will help, and the perfect timing is coming up in June when my usual instructor is away on holiday. I will use this as an opportunity to ask for a session with another instructor I have in mind.

Feeling a lot more positive about my future as a pilot now, and less like bashing my head against a wall. Glad to have found this forum - thanks for the warm welcome.

@Johnm - thank you for the book recommendation, thanks to Amazon it arrived this morning, so I'll be sticking my head into this later.

@India Four Two re: "finals" thank you for pointing this out! Not sure where I picked that up from, but glad to correct it!
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Old 16th May 2016, 10:32
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I fully agree with all the advice here, just wanted to add a bit of my own experience:

what really helped me to progress through circuits rather quickly is that the school have a full motion sim. This way instructor can pause the sim any time he sees you making a mistake and talk it through. Seeing how great it was, I went on and ordered a Saitek yoke, pedals, trim wheel and the TPM box from amazon, got it working with my home PC, spent another bit on FSX flight simulator and few decent addon aircraft.. as a result for about 300 euros I had a nice sim setup at home where I could practice circuits every night after work. My biggest issue was over-controlling the elevator, often completely forgetting about throttle control, but having this setup at home really helped me to get back on track. I solo'ed rather late, but after these sim sessions I was able to finish my PPL in near minimum hours
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Old 16th May 2016, 16:03
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What a good idea - I've been searching around for the various components, the rudder pedals are hard to come by! (and pricey, you must have got a bargain!)

Reckon this is worth a try. Did you get the Cessna components, by the way? Or their more generic ones?
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