Are Shoreham flying schools so busy.........
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The OP's experience sounds much like mine back in 1995 ish.
I lived 20 minutes away and it would have been ideal to learn there. I ended up coming to California to learn instead. Saved ££££££ fell in love with the US lifestyle and now happily married to a US girl.
At the time I was looking I faxed or emailed every school I could find in the UK and the USA. I only had 2 schools even bother to reply in the UK, out of 50 odd schools I contacted in the USA only ONE failed to make contact with me.
HTC
I lived 20 minutes away and it would have been ideal to learn there. I ended up coming to California to learn instead. Saved ££££££ fell in love with the US lifestyle and now happily married to a US girl.
At the time I was looking I faxed or emailed every school I could find in the UK and the USA. I only had 2 schools even bother to reply in the UK, out of 50 odd schools I contacted in the USA only ONE failed to make contact with me.
HTC
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Heston,
The funny thing is that your last post highlights a misunderstanding in this thread.
I don't think anyone can reasonably expect a business to bend-over for prospective clients, I don't think that was what was mentioned in any of the posts. Most of these posts were highlighting common courtesy and basic common sense for any business. I agree with you Heston that current customers should be rewarded for their loyalty
The OP was saying that he went into a flying school in the hope for it to become his new ATO to complete his PPL ( I read between the lines as "student eager to get cracking" ). Who walks into the flying school on a mucky day, talks to the CFI who gives him a whole 2 minute chat and refuses for him or any other staff not seemingly doing anything useful due to grounded aeroplanes (resulted by weather) to have a quick look at the planes (that are just sitting there).
Now I am not an expert in human psychology, but this does seem rather unpleasant, and should that have been me, I too would have gone to look elsewhere for someone who is grateful for the business.
But perhaps there is a good reason for this... Ie... Badly maintained planes? Door seals leaking?
The second experience, well I am not one to judge as I personally would have booked a trial lesson with them and asked for a little ground-time for a chat before the flight, rather than "turn up for a chat" (concept I find a little weird TBH, what on earth could you chat about for an hour!?). But again, there is no need for that kind of behaviour, he could probably have just said that he was out of coffee OWTTE. But it would depend on the words the OP used with the gentleman too!
Anyway - recap - only thing I think most people are saying is that you should be courteous to anyone who comes through your door. Not bending over backwards though!
The funny thing is that your last post highlights a misunderstanding in this thread.
I don't think anyone can reasonably expect a business to bend-over for prospective clients, I don't think that was what was mentioned in any of the posts. Most of these posts were highlighting common courtesy and basic common sense for any business. I agree with you Heston that current customers should be rewarded for their loyalty
The OP was saying that he went into a flying school in the hope for it to become his new ATO to complete his PPL ( I read between the lines as "student eager to get cracking" ). Who walks into the flying school on a mucky day, talks to the CFI who gives him a whole 2 minute chat and refuses for him or any other staff not seemingly doing anything useful due to grounded aeroplanes (resulted by weather) to have a quick look at the planes (that are just sitting there).
Now I am not an expert in human psychology, but this does seem rather unpleasant, and should that have been me, I too would have gone to look elsewhere for someone who is grateful for the business.
But perhaps there is a good reason for this... Ie... Badly maintained planes? Door seals leaking?
The second experience, well I am not one to judge as I personally would have booked a trial lesson with them and asked for a little ground-time for a chat before the flight, rather than "turn up for a chat" (concept I find a little weird TBH, what on earth could you chat about for an hour!?). But again, there is no need for that kind of behaviour, he could probably have just said that he was out of coffee OWTTE. But it would depend on the words the OP used with the gentleman too!
Anyway - recap - only thing I think most people are saying is that you should be courteous to anyone who comes through your door. Not bending over backwards though!
Perhaps more to the point, is that if you don't 'bend over backwards' to welcome your customer, someone else will.
I don't think that we've ever been at the stage when customers are 'ten a penny'.
I don't think that we've ever been at the stage when customers are 'ten a penny'.
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Just a quick comment from my (second) career, in what was effectively Customer Service. It takes a few seconds to acknowledge one person politely while dealing with another. Something along the lines of 'I'll be able to give you my undivided attention in a minute' lets all parties know that you care. It's not either/or, it has to be both. Eye contact & reading body language especially useful.
When I was searching for a school to do my PPL I must have contacted a dozen - on 2 occasions as the first time round time simply didn't permit. I suspect there will be a lot of aspirational PPLs who want to test the waters but simply can't find the time or money to pursue things further.
So for those in the business: what is the ratio of prospective clients to serious customers? 10:1. 100:1? I can easily see how you might get jaded if you're sitting at the phone all day talking to peniless aviation buffs who ultimately never take things further.
So for those in the business: what is the ratio of prospective clients to serious customers? 10:1. 100:1? I can easily see how you might get jaded if you're sitting at the phone all day talking to peniless aviation buffs who ultimately never take things further.
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We have a similar dilemma regarding aircraft booking. In every system, there is a risk that the a/c won't return in time for some reason, and the next guy will have his plans ruined and will heavily protest. Who is going to be punished? (The answer: the guy who flies less and makes less profit for the operators, i.e., doesn't depend on being 1st or 2nd.)
I had a plane booked for a whole day because I was taking my wife to France. The evening before my flight I popped into the club to prepare the paper work to make the morning a lot smoother. By that time of the day all the next day's bookings had been added to the wall.
I notice that my day had been hijacked by another member who had got one of the staff to erase my booking so that he could have the plane. I now only had a 2 hour slot from 10.00-12.00.
Obviously I asked what had happened, but the guy in the office was on the phone. When he got off the phone I asked again. He told me I was in luck because he had just put the phone down from the guy who had booked my slot, and he couldn't make it, so I could have the plane the whole day after all.
I pointed out that a) just because this guy had been a member longer doesn't give you the right to amend my booking in his favour, b) no-one had even had the courtesy to call me and discuss, and c) he was the one in luck because he wouldn't have been flying that day because I was still going to France, and wouldn't have been back until sometime in the afternoon.
It wasn't long after that episode that I left the club.
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Interesting story.
But I guess even with a share, you still need to do some co-ordination (time booking) among the owners, correct?
However there is no hierarchy in that structure, so it's more about agreeing to ensure everyone can fly happily, rather than competing and hijacking, right?
But I guess even with a share, you still need to do some co-ordination (time booking) among the owners, correct?
However there is no hierarchy in that structure, so it's more about agreeing to ensure everyone can fly happily, rather than competing and hijacking, right?
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I must lead a sheltered life as I have not experienced poor customer service from GA flying schools any more than I have in any other industry sectors. But then, I haven't been to Shoreham, yet 
Although he seems thoroughly capable himself, in defence of Heston, he has never said one should ignore or be rude to prospects, but that one shouldn't put them ahead of existing customers.
I sort of agree with that; if someone is about to put some cash into my bank account (at hopefully a profit), then I would want to make sure they are suitably attended to. However, a business needs to turn prospects into customers and I think what Heston has omitted is that one has to quickly qualify their prospects as a valid opportunity or tyre kicker. This is more an art than anything else, and it can sometimes not be accurate - part of the cost of doing business. Once one has determined the true opportunity presented by the prospect, one would accord the prospect the appropriate level of attention.
Like Heston, I would not advocate rudeness or, even as in the OP's experience, being sent somewhere else for a coffee as in that case as a) he wasn't wasting anyone's time flicking through the Ops manual and b) if he wasn't offended, then after his coffee he would have returned when the instructor arrived to "waste" the instructor's time...
Although he seems thoroughly capable himself, in defence of Heston, he has never said one should ignore or be rude to prospects, but that one shouldn't put them ahead of existing customers.
I sort of agree with that; if someone is about to put some cash into my bank account (at hopefully a profit), then I would want to make sure they are suitably attended to. However, a business needs to turn prospects into customers and I think what Heston has omitted is that one has to quickly qualify their prospects as a valid opportunity or tyre kicker. This is more an art than anything else, and it can sometimes not be accurate - part of the cost of doing business. Once one has determined the true opportunity presented by the prospect, one would accord the prospect the appropriate level of attention.
Like Heston, I would not advocate rudeness or, even as in the OP's experience, being sent somewhere else for a coffee as in that case as a) he wasn't wasting anyone's time flicking through the Ops manual and b) if he wasn't offended, then after his coffee he would have returned when the instructor arrived to "waste" the instructor's time...
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Interesting story.
But I guess even with a share, you still need to do some co-ordination (time booking) among the owners, correct?
However there is no hierarchy in that structure, so it's more about agreeing to ensure everyone can fly happily, rather than competing and hijacking, right?
But I guess even with a share, you still need to do some co-ordination (time booking) among the owners, correct?
However there is no hierarchy in that structure, so it's more about agreeing to ensure everyone can fly happily, rather than competing and hijacking, right?
At the club, it was about a member who had been there a lot longer than me, and was pally with the owner. He persuaded him to override my booking.
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I need to look for something similar.
The problem I see in my environment is that the entry-level (cheap) airplanes in the schools/clubs are nearly fully booked with trainings, and it's the instructors, who override bookings of ordinary PPLs, or simply take the aircraft despite your booking. And the same instructors don't cancel their bookings in the system, when their student cancels the appointment. So we have a "we will gladly teach you to fly, but after that, we'll screw you, mwhahahaha" situation
The problem I see in my environment is that the entry-level (cheap) airplanes in the schools/clubs are nearly fully booked with trainings, and it's the instructors, who override bookings of ordinary PPLs, or simply take the aircraft despite your booking. And the same instructors don't cancel their bookings in the system, when their student cancels the appointment. So we have a "we will gladly teach you to fly, but after that, we'll screw you, mwhahahaha" situation
Wow, grumpy was an understatement. Despite his advanced years, I am used to finding dragons at the doors to the Airport Lounges, not at the "first impression" stage of a business that I would have imagined would be chomping at the heels of new business.
